Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Jedi Feedback: Jedi and Combat
lockder
Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:33 pm
#40
kuro my saber 3gen is 231-374 3.8 speed 1 FC if dont remember bad, i guess you need get better crystals 
AldeonAvardulin
Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:17 pm
#41
I have a master rifleman there, do to the char transfers and when I was a correpondant. And all I have to say is, good bye normal classes, welcome to the world of Jedi. 91 jedi per side on the council, 182 Jedi per server on the council. 1/5th the server pops?
With the right spec, Master Defender, Master LightSaber, 4004 Heal, you can take on 10+ of the best players without bieng in the council for the damage modifiers. Its easy mode, any random person can get jedi and become one of the best PvPers on the server.
Im guessing you are trying to turn the game into all Jedi?
AldeonAvardulin
Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:29 pm
#42
Guys, to all the people saying a Fencer/Pistoleer defense stacker can take on jedi. I think you all are forgeting Jedi have the best Intimidate in the game. Once a fencer/pistoleer is intimidated, bye bye Dodge. And a jedi will then rip him apart. A jedi, can heal his intimidate, and with the right spec, gets +80 defense to all states. So either your jedis are forgeting to use intimidate, or dont know that intimidate makes Dodge not work.
Leiser
Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:12 pm
#43
Jedi are hard to hit, almost all the high level jedi blocked almost 95% of my shots and i have 180 pistol accuracy, plus like 55 accuracy while moving and 40 acc while standing, i also was using aim and food to increase my accuracy and they blocked nearly everything, it's insane, not to mention my shots that actually got through do like 30 damage(which they regen in a split second)
Makes me wish i had taken the time to grind, for i fear PvP probly isnt something ill be able to participate in now. I mean even 10 of us attacking the same high level jedi could not even dent him at all.
Makes me wish i had taken the time to grind, for i fear PvP probly isnt something ill be able to participate in now. I mean even 10 of us attacking the same high level jedi could not even dent him at all.
Larki
Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:57 am
#44
If the ranged blocking I saw on TC makes it to live, there will be no point being a BH, unless you pickup some melee skills, they, oddly enough, hit more than they should while ranged against a master defence tree-er means you will never hit.
Techdevil
Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:05 am
#45
- Saber damage is way too low, i watched a sentinel & a knight fighting a dark knight for about 8 mins. Saber damage was so low that the DK's bars were regenerating (with buffs) faster than the other 2 could reduce them.
- Defenses are decent enough but i found as a low lvl jedi, if i wat to take out another player who was buffed i had to switch to TK. Again saber damage was way too low.
- See above!!!
- The saber damage increase vs low lvl creatures was spot on. The increase should be for all saber damage though, not just against low lvl beasties.
I never managed to level up enough to try anything but a 1st gen saber but if you want Jedi to play as Jedi then lightsaber damage has to be high enough (at all levels of play) to take down a fully buffed player compareable to a swordsman using a Scythe!
mpsaro
Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:28 am
#46
one thing that i hope the devs havn't done is change jedi to the point where non-jedi characters or should i say entire groups of non-jedi chars cannot kill them (let alone damage them). This will definitely see a lot of pvpers cancelling their accounts
Selenim
Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:27 am
#47
with the new increased damage, 1 vs 1 PvP fights are now interesting and never last more than 10 min except master defender vs master defenderif none ismaster lightsaber.
But master lightsaber + master defender is really overpowered now, i'm master defender + 0044 LS + 4000 healing + 0004 enhancement + 0040 powers and i'm totally helpless against that, whereas against every other template even if i loose the fight by far i always feel like there is a possibility to win.
with this new damage output, a master Lightsaber deals about 5 times more damage than 4444 lightsaber, this mainly cause of the speed skill capped.
as 0044 LS with a 3rd gen double bladed lightsaber ( 3.2 sp 307-398 7FC) i can use dervish1 every 2.5 sec
a master LS with a 4th gen doublebladed lightsaber can spam dervish2 every 1 sec for 1.5x more damage than dervish1 and 33% more damage than a 3rd gen saber, and such whatever the speed of his saber. ( 1.5 x 2.5 x 1.333 = 5 times more damage)
+100 speed skill is an aberation
i understand the master LS box should give a great power but even 2 or 3 times more damage would already be an important improvement, 5 times is just too overwhelming.
+85 speed skill at master LS would make dervish2 useable every 1.5 sec (with 3.3 spd saber) which is still a huge improvement from 2.5 sec. with this speed skill, saber speed is a factor to consider and so 1H sabers wouldn't be at disadvantage compared to double bladed.
as 0044 LS with a 3rd gen double bladed lightsaber ( 3.2 sp 307-398 7FC) i can use dervish1 every 2.5 sec
a master LS with a 4th gen doublebladed lightsaber can spam dervish2 every 1 sec for 1.5x more damage than dervish1 and 33% more damage than a 3rd gen saber, and such whatever the speed of his saber. ( 1.5 x 2.5 x 1.333 = 5 times more damage)
+100 speed skill is an aberation
i understand the master LS box should give a great power but even 2 or 3 times more damage would already be an important improvement, 5 times is just too overwhelming.
+85 speed skill at master LS would make dervish2 useable every 1.5 sec (with 3.3 spd saber) which is still a huge improvement from 2.5 sec. with this speed skill, saber speed is a factor to consider and so 1H sabers wouldn't be at disadvantage compared to double bladed.
Selenim
Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:55 am
#48
in PvEthe damage output is now interesting, i can hit for around 6k damage with dervish1, whatever the mob's resists, which make Jedi knights Krayt dragons slayers.
in PvP against normal characters, MBH are worthless against Jedi knights, the block skill making ranged attacks almost useless. i don't think even 10 MBH can kill a single Jedi knight, or maybe if they can keep kitting him, but even so it would take a while. i didn't have the chance to fight against other combat class.
Excalibar
Fri Jun 18, 2004 2:29 pm
#49
I dropped all my skills an just went for 4004 Lightsabre for a test.
What I found: Anyone that does not have a major amount of skill points to carry across on conversion are going to get hammered.
Only having around 1350 Force Power (Now that they have also reduced the amount of force power you get) and it costs about 12 to 25 FC per move.
And that without using Specials your attacks at lower lvl's are crap I used up my full 1350 on one lair and I did not finish that. I know I could have just done
the basic attack, but I was testing this for a reason.
In the test above I was waring the Robe of a Padawan, had the tc2 buff (2200.. i think) and my 1h Lightsabre. 3rd Gen light Sabre was of basic design. 190 to 250 ish
power, it had 1 x colour crystal and a damage one. (Tested at most basic lvl) I know i could put more crystals in but I wanted to see at most basic, Remember
New Jedi will not have any damage ones let alone finding a colour one.
I took on a Piklet Planes Walker Liar, Mission.
I used 1 x 1h Flurry and then 3h Hit as many times as required to finish the creature.
After 5 of the 6 Creatures my force power was drained. and at a regen of 12 every 10 seconds. I just stood there. and fought until i was almost dead.
Average Flurry damage 600 to 1300, Average 1h3hit 400 to 1000. Please note: I found that the creatures seem quite adept at blocking specials, I had to hit one piklet 12 time with special b4 it went down.
Result: did not finish mission, had to run to stop getting killed, even with these abilities I only had just about half my HAMS
If this is suposed to be a better system please tell me why. For the high end jedi it is great. I was there. Master Sabre and Master Defence with 0044 Enchance.
I was god. Happy Person here. Once you get there the game can be fun, the PvP, Councils etc...
But if the idea was to make geting a jedi fun once you get past the quests then think again. I have only hadmy jedi FS for about 5 to 6 weeks. I have played SWG since
day one plus also was in Beta. I have seen all my friends leave over the last year. Yes I know it would be long, hard and at time boring. But I want to achive something and I did in the unlock. Not bothered about BH, Part of game. Still get anoyed about losing boxes or XP, the Reward is the Jedi the Pain is the time it takes and the lack of fun for the grind to get there and the grind to make a jedi.
So Conclusion:
I grinded my Jedi to 4334 Initiate on live ... I will lose the skills on live for a worse jedi after update...... I can't heal myself or my BF. No force powers only sabre. You now have to use the special moves if you want to do decent amount of damage which cost Forcer power. Where once I could take on a Piklet Lair or 2 and win with my 5th Gen Sabre I can't now. I used to be able to get 70k of xp on one buff for almost 3hrs waring Composite. Now I will luck if I can survive an hr without dying. In current system you can stand there and use default move to attack as the sabres produced around 700 to 1300 average damage. In the updateyou have to use a special otherwise the average is 300.
Pros:
Wide choice of skill boxes.
Jedi Councils at end of grind to improve you or to aim for.
Some nice new powers to play with.
Fun for high lvl Players.
No TEF for none knights
Sabre has no resistances against it except for vehicles.
Cons:
Loss of some major abilities in transfer if you want to keep Sabre if you are a low lvl Player. (BF heal etc)
Higher Lvl's of xp required across the board.
Beacuse you can't ware armour (So far the robe has done nothing to change my mind yet on this) your HAMS drop fast even with buff.
Now you need to use Specialsa lot more your Force Bar drops faster. (see Above)
XP rate will drop per hr as you will need to keep waiting for Force bar to increase b4 next mission/lair.
Without some damage crystals/pearls your sabre is crap. Even with internal coding the damage rate is low.
I have read that you will not lose XP in PVP but in PVE you will.You will be in a negative situation very fast as you will either run of die.
I know that lower lvl jedi can get a mix of normal profs and jedi but to get jedi xp youcan't ware armour and you have to use the sabre or powers to gain
xp. Your defences may get a bit better but the above still applies.
Not a rant not a flame. Just a Test to see what I and others will be letting ourselves in for. I do hope that someone takes note. We all pay for a game to be fun. For me this will not be, I feel like i will be going backwards. Some see this patch, mainly the non jedi as a major boost for jedi. For me, a jedi, i still think it is a major nerf. Looks like one less jedi and one more normal player again.
Which I personelly think the devs wanted, less people trying for jedi. It is not worth the effort. 20 to 32 million xp to become a knight is a major pain in the ass at 500 to 600xp per kill (If your lucky) . (Xp required depends on which kills you take)
Hey everyone else posts rants, flames, pros, cons and observations. I did all mine in one. 
Thx for reading.
Netninjax
Sat Jun 19, 2004 7:45 am
#51
what the hell was that... anyway..
Jedi vs Jedi = still need a pillow if they both are defenders..
Jedi vs NPCs = other than taking a ton of damage to the jedi, damage output seems ok.
Jedi vs Creatures = same as NPCs other than taking 2x as long now to drop the large mobs.
Jedi vs Other Professions = Ranged defence is great if your a master defender. Melee is a complete joke. I am a master saber master defender and was creamed by a TK, Fencer. Oh not to mention cant land a freaking hit on them or land a state.
Excalibar
Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:32 am
#52
After testing some more I have now found that the Force cost on a new sabre does not really reflect the cost used in force power.
I have a 190 to 250 3rd gen sabre with a colour and a damage crystal
it had a force cost of 22. (High i know, but this is for testing)
I kept my Personel screen open (The one that shows how mych power you have) and watched when I made some special moves.
On average I was using 50 to 58 FC every move regardless of what the move was.
Now I may have missed a memo or a posting but I though the FC on Sabres reflected how much it costs to perform a specialmanouvere.
If I am wrong please tell me what I missed.
At 50 FC costs I will get 26 moves on a 1300 Power Bar. And it recharges at only 12 to 16 every 10 seconds.... a bit wayward. Unless you have meditate then
you will be siting around alot.
Thx