Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Jedi Feedback: Jedi and Combat
raz1337
Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:22 am
#27
Using a 3.1 speed 1 handed lightsaber, +75 one handed saber speed, and flurry 1, I'm hitting once every 3 seconds, shouldn't I be hitting at the speed cap? It seems as those one handed saber speed mods are broken.
If you want to take up the force power tree, you absolutely need enhancement synergy 4 for meditate, is this intended?
Also, Polearms are the strongest saber, so who would want to use a 1 handed or 2 handed?
Stupidfly
Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:36 am
#28
From Archives Vol II:
The lightsaber values of lightsabers have been put in line with the damage outputs of our combat balance values. We have also lowered the maximum potential of crystals and pearls to be more in line with the new scales of the combat system. The numbers may appear to be a bit low to what current Jedi see on their lightsabers now, but don't worry! We will apply behind the scenes values so the new lightsabers will deal the same amount of damage as pre-patch values until we push the combat balance live.
From Archives Vol III:
What is the new lightsaber damage type?
A new damage type has been created called, "lightsaber damage". All armor is vulnerable to lightsabers, with the exception of Personal Shield Generators.
2 paragraphs down:
Crystals and pearls that were deconstructed will have the stats they had previously, however they will be skewed towards the rebalanced lightsaber stats.
2 paragraphs down
Will robe resists have hidden code like lightsabers to keep them in tune with the current game?
Yes
In II we are explicitly told our sabers will have behind the scenes modifiers to make them EQUAL to current sabers.
In III he announces the new damage type and then a few paragraphs down again mentions 'hidden' stats on sabers until the combat revamp.
The lightsaber values of lightsabers have been put in line with the damage outputs of our combat balance values. We have also lowered the maximum potential of crystals and pearls to be more in line with the new scales of the combat system. The numbers may appear to be a bit low to what current Jedi see on their lightsabers now, but don't worry! We will apply behind the scenes values so the new lightsabers will deal the same amount of damage as pre-patch values until we push the combat balance live.
From Archives Vol III:
What is the new lightsaber damage type?
A new damage type has been created called, "lightsaber damage". All armor is vulnerable to lightsabers, with the exception of Personal Shield Generators.
2 paragraphs down:
Crystals and pearls that were deconstructed will have the stats they had previously, however they will be skewed towards the rebalanced lightsaber stats.
2 paragraphs down
Will robe resists have hidden code like lightsabers to keep them in tune with the current game?
Yes
In II we are explicitly told our sabers will have behind the scenes modifiers to make them EQUAL to current sabers.
In III he announces the new damage type and then a few paragraphs down again mentions 'hidden' stats on sabers until the combat revamp.
Saber specials DO NOT MAKE UP FOR THE DAMAGE NERF. This costs force and is NOT an effecient way to grind!
When will we see the numbers we are used to? Are they coming to test or only on the live version?
Sharlathea
Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:57 am
#29
EvoBeck wrote:
Please do not post in this thread unless you have actually tested under the most recent update.
Surely some of the above posts are based on testing from several days ago, and it is apples to oranges.
The PVE has gotten much better now, and the rate of xp gain is quite good now. Perhaps not where it is in live, due to the removal of the bonus FT xp, but just on creatures it is pretty good.
I think the xp requirements are ok where they are. Just as in live, getting started will be the hardest part. The more boxes you get, the faster it will go.
Someone else wrote:
XP loss on death needs to be turned way down, 100k xp is a 2hr grind session so thats a pretty big amount to take away for a single death.
100k XP for a 2 hour grind session is NOT a "Good rate of xp gain" when you need 1.6M for a box. 32 Hours of playing for ONE box ,assuming you don't die along the way?
JebMarin
Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:03 am
#30
Jedis v Jedis ,
we aint really damaging each other enough, think the defenses are about right .. but saber accuracy & dmg vs each other needs hiking
or perhaps some expensive force costs moves that specifically negate some jedi defenses.
Jedis v OtherClasses
pretty cool, apart from Fencer Pistoleer Stackers (1 of my pet hates ) still can't be hit, this combo is overpowered , they solo turrets ffs
wack LS accuracy WAY upsee who's dodging then ?
Jedis v NPC
pfft, damage seems to low against high level NPCs, perahps if the AP2 was being applied and sabers werent like 1/4 of the damage they were b4
Jedis v Creatures
see above really the damage nerf is gonna make the grind all the more horrid for people, the ridiclous grind aspect sours me to this game sometimes, creative thinking in other ways for Jedi to get xp would be appreciated
JEST3R
Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:52 am
#31
PVE testing:
The default attack is no longer sufficient to fight mobs for XP, instead you must rely on special attacks, which I can agree with. But this markedly changes the metrics for the pace of advancement. Even with "Quality" damage pearls my sabre still uses 7 force or so per swing of a special attack.
My Default attack damage used to be 2500-3000, now default attacks are 350 or so with special attacks doing approximately 1500. This change alone effectively HALVES my XP gain rate I once previously had. However this is not the end of the changes, Jedi can no longer wear armor, and it is the converted initiates who suffer as a result because they cannot get the Force Armor2 line from the defender tree AS WELL AS the basic sabre attacks from the light sabre tree.
In effect we lost the composite armor as well as having our damage halved. Still I personally proceeded through this and carefully mixed my converted JEDI to have a powerful "template stack" of Fencer/Jedi/TKA/Medic. With maxed defenses and center of being running I was able to hang on barely vs the same critters I once slaughtered with abandon.
Now to make matters worse with damage halved it takes signifcantly longer to kill the same more as before, (not to mention my sabre went from 1.7 to a 3.2 speed, default attack vs a special attack which has longer pauses between swings) I am using force with each swing. I regenerate at 5 force points every 6 seconds.
I can basically fight through 4 critters carefully before being very low on force power, which makes me take approximately 16 minutes to fully recharge. Another HUGE slowdown in my XP progression.
So roughly on the conversion of my JEDI what occured was I lost 75% of my skill boxes....
Required XP for all boxes was increased compared to the initial Initiate tree (which is not much of an issue by and of itself).
My XP gain rate dropped from .... 40k JEDI XP an HOUR... to about 10k JEDI xp an hour...... thats after its all said and done (loss of force powers, forced to use specials and wait on force regen, no more armor, damage effectively halved, speed of attacks effectively halved.)
So the XP required to progress was increased in its totality and the gain rate is not 1/4th what it once was.
Now to make matters WORSE... as a lowly 4000 sabre player, a single death is costing me 100,000 Jedi xp... Thats right your putting me in the hole about 10 hours of game play, meanwhile you have stripped me of 75% of my skills, and removed all of my armor and means of self defense.
PVP Testing on TC3.....
JEDI can enable Force armor2 then wear Composite and have both runnning...
JEDI have been seen in composite and using light sabre special attacks.
JEDI Cure poison and disease are taking 3-4 tries to actually remove relatively weak CM poisons and diseases, furthermore the default target is NOT yourself so you must target yourself. This akward and broken game mechanic means ALL Jedi are now CM chew toys, as was seen on TC-Corbantis last night.
Zabrak JEDI can use equilibrium as basically a HEAL ALL damage.... it almost completely heals all my damage rather then balance out my damage across my bars.
My running mate a Master Fencer/Pistoleer stack with some TKA was doing VERY well vs JEDI... nearly taking out some previously 4444 Guardians. One example would be vs a Master Defender, Brenneke (my running mate) fought them to almost a stand still for 20 minutes before finally losing the 1v1 engagement and the JEDI was also hurt significantly as well.
Tyreseus
Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:56 am
#32
1. jedi v jedi: master ls/master defender template pretty much will own in a pure lightsaber duel. Very difficult to beat one if your only means of attack is a LS and you dont have master ls and defender.
Combat seems to have sped up a bit as damage from specials seems to have been upped.
Force choke is overpowered vs unbuffed players, but is useless vs a buffed player: It should just take a % of a player's health off as a dot instead of a raw number, ensuring its effectiveness in all situations.
2. Jedi vs others: Only been able to test vs MBH, and frankly the MBH had no chance if I whacked him with dervish 2 and force ran to keep up with him and avoid kiting.
3. Jedi vs NPCs/creatures: Auto attack damage in the 500's, with specials in the 2k+ range. Seemed decent, altho some of the tougher knight trial mobs are not soloable for a non master ls/defense template.
Klean
Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:04 am
#33
PvE: The new damage range for specials seems very similair to what we currently have on live now.
Although, there seems to be a problem when fighting MOBs that have medium armor or higher. Even though they are vulnerable to Lightsaber damage, their armor rating still reduces the amount of dmg actually given (judged by the numbers over their head compard to combat spam).
PvP: Again, excellent damage range for specials. But default attack seems to be lacking. Overall, I think the damage in pvp needs to be reduced by 25%. It's too much, and will unbalance combat greatly. My suggestion would be a 25% reduction.
Great work so far Devs. I'm glad you are listening to the community on such a major change. I look forward to these new changes, and I know many do as well. Thank
Renairdor
Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:34 am
#34
Issharraan wrote:
PvP seems to have improved ALOT with todays patch. Damage and everything seems pretty good. Duels don't last indefinately anymore. BUT.. and that's a HUGE but.
Accuracy is way too low. +100 at master lightsaber is.. well it's too low too. But with just a fourth tier box you only have +75 accuracy. Being 0044 in Lightsaber myself one thing was clear, in the duels i had with Master Defender/FS melee defense i could hardlyland a single blow. +115 melee defense vs +75 accuracy is a lil out of whack.
Don't even WANT to imagine how it'd go in a Non-Master lightsaber wielder vs fencer/Rifleman template using CoB
Most specials have inherent accuracy, dmg, time mods. I wasn't missing much, if anything, using the higher end specials - perhaps this is intended? I need to fight a synthsteak using, fencer/tka template and see if damage is reasonable. What results were you getting using specials vs the master def?
Though, I do agree- a lvl 2 or better saber user should have 100 accuracy and rarely miss. They will have used that saber a LOT to get that far
Ren
Renairdor
Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:37 am
#35
Xeovar wrote:
Forgot to add, please completely separate force power damage from lightsabers. Force powers are not related in any way to sabers, it should be based on the Force pool or fixed values instead. Without it, you cant really thing of going Emperor's way (no LS, just powers) and from what I've seen thats a template that a lot of people are interested in.
They are seperate. I tested this last night with a friend. He did all 4 lightnings (single 1,2, cone 1,2), each 5 times, against me. Without shields he was hitting REALLY hard for 300-500 dmg, which shields I reduced that what appeared to be half. He then did the same without any LS equipped at all - similar damage. That being said, if Lightning is doing Elec damage, and our robes get protections as we expect- it may make lightning less powerful in PvP. And I'd like to see the results of lightning on a TKA/Fencer with 80% composite armor. I expect very little damage.
Ren
wungba
Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:15 am
#36
lightsaber should able to block melee attack as well, I think alot of people forgot about it. please consider this.
Spo0ky
Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:21 pm
#37
okay PVE PVP NPC all need looking at for low level jedi
pvp you get killed with in sec's .... okay your a low level you should be killed quite easy ... if you had't worked half a year to get to a low level jedi
PVE you can kill some low level which don't give anywhere enough xp to enable to use a better saber to gain higher xp
NPC .. the simple answer is run you can't hurt them enough to kill a 6k mob .... and the time taken to kill them doesn't = the xp ... so there is no point
answer bring back saber xp or increase the xp given for kill them
the solution would be grant 50% xp as jedi xp from normal xp gained ....
The enclave are for power gamers and will keep them happy ... padawan is for normal gamers increase the xp keep them happy
KardenTyrell
Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:42 pm
#38
At some points, blocking of shots are just too much....there has to be something introduced like
Jedi concentration: meaning the more people a Jedi has to fight, the less effective his defence rolls are
Kurodesant
Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:14 pm
#39
With my crappy second generationlightsabre on TC2 I can barely scratch a savage quenker. Stats are 107-197 with 2 damage crystals and force costs is 9.
When this hits live I will be able to make a third generation lightsabre probably with max stats around 150 - 250 I guess. However I think my force costs will be way above 9 and that is the problem....!
When this hits live I will be able to make a third generation lightsabre probably with max stats around 150 - 250 I guess. However I think my force costs will be way above 9 and that is the problem....!
How am I suposed to level? I tried killing savage quenkes on TC2 and as long as there were force there were hope.... it lasted axp 2½ savage quenker... then I ran.... then I died. (A savage quenker gives apx 470 Jedi XP).
I will be forced to kill very low level gritters on auto-attack and primarly relying on what ever defense mods I'll be picking up through normal skills..... thats going to take forever. Seriously.
Auto-attack is the only way to level and the current swift of focus to use specials is not feasible with the current force cost drain and slow force regain.
Oh what to do.
Rgs Kuro
Oh what to do.
Rgs Kuro