Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-14: Combat Roles; Squad Leader
What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat?
The Squad Leader's role is to get every person in his/her squad to work together and accomplish goals they could not without the Squad Leader.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
They should possess more knowledge than actual skills. They need to have extra training (Pistoleer, BH) to use their own weapons but they are able to direct the combat of the squad better than anyone can themselves. Squad Leaders should have support and amplifiers for the combat of their squad, by themselves they lose the advantage of a squad and are far weaker.
What offensive abilities?
Direct fire to a specific target as well as a specific HAM pool on that target. Distracting/stalling enemies so they are unable to fire for a short time.
What defensive abilities?
Having someone in the squad (including the SL) take damage for another squad member. A kind of Last Stand, where the squad gets a short bonus to offense maybe when the SL dies? Would be nice. A better Retreat, the current one needs a little work in its effectiveness but the idea is good. Camps and fortifications are a definite must-have, or what is the point of having the Survival tree be a prerequisite? Also passive bonuses for defense as the Squad Leader knows formations and forming ranks to better defend an area. Can bring out the deepest urge to fight and survive in his/her squad causing them to win where any other group could not. (not meaning SL and 2 people take on krayts or anything)
What unique abilities?
Camps and fortifications, Landing Zones for emergency pickupor Drop Zones for immediate insertion. SLs and Rangers should be able to work together on this. A heavy weapon certification that requires at least 2 people (not counting the SL) to operate. Must be within a certain proximity of the SL to work and can have multiple guns, but not so many as to be impregnable.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The Squad Leader is the Strategist and Tactician, therefore he/she should be able to implement plans for offense and defense that no other class can. Groups with a Squad Leader should be able to hold out longer and cause much more damage than any group without.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Squad Leaders and Rangers should work together on camps, fortifications, LZs and the like. Fortifications can implement items made by any kind of crafter: Architects make walls/structures, armorsmiths increase defense of walls and structures, weaponsmiths give defensive guns, tailors make camouflage, chefs make good food 
, droid engineers can make droids to repair any damage, etc. Should be able to have covert scanners and minefields as well. Combat professions they interact by leading them and making them more capable of killing the enemy and defending themselves and the squad.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Squad Leaders depend on other combatants to do anything. A Squad Leader is nothing without a Squad. A really complex way to interact would be to have multiple-man strategies, so two different professions with their own skills should be able to use them together (under the SLs direction) and do something much more powerful than just the two of them by themselves.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They are the leaders, the officers, the ones that lead their faction to victory. Without Squad Leaders there would be no strategy, no creativeness to defeat the other side. Wars cannot be decided by who has the largest force, but by who uses their force the best to achieve any goal. Without Squad Leaders, the first Death Star would still exist...
What is the profession’s role in its novice state and how should the skill progress over the course of a player’s time investment in the profession?
As a novice Squad Leader, he/she is learning ways to lead their squad. They are learning strategies and skills as well as how to use them effectively. As they move up towards Master Squad Leader, they learn better skills and better ways to implement them. Chances for failure should be highest as a novice and lowest as a Master, being very low for a Master Squad Leader. A Master Squad Leader should be unparalleled in his/her knowledge of warfare, experience in all kinds of battles, has the respect of the squad and can enforce discipline without trying.
Is this one of your current professions, was it at one time, or have you never tried the class at all?
This is the first and only elite profession I mastered. I dabble in Pistoleer and BH only for the combat skills, but I am a SL to the heart. All my love for this profession is in its potential. I have no doubt that it will become as good as it is supposed to be.
What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat?
A profession forplayers who like to take a leadership role. This profession should provide ingame tools to assist a player of this kind in leading and making a squad effective.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
I believe they should have some "explicit abilities" such as small mind buffs (e.g. +300 to all bluepools as an automatic buff that all group members receieve for the duration they are in your group and less than or equal to 100m away from you). I think this has real potential, people would move as a group and stick close to the SL if their mind buff depended on it. The amount of buff can vary with SL skill level.
More explicit abilities such as increasing their chance to hit etc etc. and so on
What would be nice would be some "tools" for squad leaders. Why not let us set waypoints for group members - either for a specific member or a group wide one. To avoid misuse allow only one SL defined waypoint to exist at a time, and make it appear red so it can be distinguished.
How about letting Squad leaders do a "Call for reinforcements"? Upon using this command, drain some mind. Let a little delay pass, maybe 15 seconds, and then spawn a random number of the SLs faction troops around the current location. For example, an imperial SL calling for reinforcements would have say 3 or 4 stormtroopers spawn. They would not be pets - they'd be uncommandable, but due to the nature of how stormtroopers and rebel troopers act already, they would assist in the battle. There would need to be a big reusetimer on this - maybe 25 minutes. It should be used in emergencies only to beef up the group when "pulls go bad". I'll leave it up to the devs to decide if it should work in pvp.
How about letting Squad leaders call for "transport"? Upon using this skill, add a delay of about 60 seconds, and then transport all group members to the nearest star/shuttleport. This should NOT be usable while any group member is in combat, and the call should be cancelled if any group member enters combat during the 60 second wait (to prevent groups dissapearing mid-pvp battle). It should drain a lot of mind, and possibly only be used from a campsite.
How about letting squad leaders use a "snap out of it" skill to cause a "mind incapped" group member to stand up again with half their mind regenerated. Mind incaps are strange - its kind of like theyre incapped from some kind of mental distress - therefore a squad leader shouting at you should be enough to bring you back out of it. Im not askingfor a heal mindat any time ability, just a skill with a 60 second reuse timer that lets us fix mind incaps.
How about letting squad leaders call for artillery support? You can use the explosion effects that commandos use. The SL could use the skill, and, after a short delay of about 5 seconds, there would be an explosion around the target with an AoE effect. The power of this explosion is upto you to decide. If its weak, use a low reuse timer though please, 30 seconds would be ok if its weak.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
A group with a SL should be much more effective than a group without one.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They'd supplement a mind buff from a dancer. They'd work alongside Combat medics to cure mind incaps. They'd work alongside combat professions to enhance their effectiveness.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
SL passive modifiers would increase their chance to hit, their chance to get hit, and boost their mind stats while the group members are within a certain range of the SL.
Well, i been a Sl from the almost the start, as soon as i was able to, around the 2nd mounth swg came out. And sadly i just masterd it about 3 weks ago. I love Sl i had high hopes for the skill, at the time no one had this skill or was using it. now i c more and more. But i had hope for more then what i got, i felt that a group with or with out a sl, let a lone a master did just about the same amount of damage and. i felt like i was not helping at all, i mean my rally made ppl not be able to harvest so i was yelled at. my steady aim only works with one shot. and volly fire is useless mostly. now maybe i have not played a master sl much around 3 weeks but with me or with out me, it made not diffrence in any thing noticeable. i would like to see a group with a sl be more effictive. I would say that there should be missions, quest, NPC thatcould only be handeld by a group with a sl. now i know bh,commands, tks,can kill any thing so what a good reason to go sl. i hate to say but i think we found the first obsolete perfession in swg, if it cant get better.
I wanted Sl to be like a general on the feild, to take control of the battel. the only thing he controls is the weapon he is using. i shout and shout to help every one but by the time i am done shouting the thing is dead. A Sl should be a skill that should be held in high regard, almost like a seening a at-as comming at you. i guess its hard not to make a skill to powerfull but if any i feal this should be it, why have a week leader and strong troops? again i say why would any one go SL when it not really helping the group.
I know Sl will be changed and made better, and i will probley never give it up, i dont feal like chainging skills every other week. i wuld love to add more, or talk about ways to make this wonderfull skill better, because in my mind i think sl is on a whole nother level.
Q: What defines the Squad Leader role in combat?
A: SL should be the best choice for a group leader in any combat group. All SL skils should reflect that idea.
Q: What basic combat elements should they possess?
A: SL's combat elements should improve overall group's performance, whenever it is through skill modifiers, special commands, or unique abilities that benefit the group as a whole.
- Several answers come to mind to followign questions. I'll list a couple, including those already in game:
What offensive abilities?
a) steady aim - ranged and throw weaposn accuracy modifiers to each group member;
b) volley fire - a special command, that would switch group's aim to a single target;
c) suppresion (or sporadic) fire - a special command that would temporary incerase firing speed of group members;
d) charge - aspecial command that would give melee fighters some temporary skill modifiers
What defensive abilities?
a) Rally - a special command to cure different states, i.e. dizzy, stun, blind, etc.;
b) fortify (or digg in) - a special command that would temporary boost defense modifiers for group members;
c) static defense modifiers for the whole group;
d) Take Cover - a special command that would give all group members ability to take cover;
e) Retreat - temporary terrain navigation and burst run efficieny imporvement, in expense of defense modifiers
Q: What unique abilities?
A: All unique abilities to be granted on Master skill-box only:
a) Strike - ability to call for fire support. This special attack should be very high in HAM cost (probably Mind, and may be Action). This is basically calling to a Space Ship and asking for a strike on a targeted enemy. This would be an areal attack (radius about 30 m), causing more damage than the most powerful commando weapons (around 3,000 max dmg per target in radius), with some splash damage to SL's group (10% of max dmg, or so). Graphically, this can ber represented either by a big laser beam shooting from the sky (Ship's turbolaser), or a fighter (TIE Bomer or Y-wing) passing high in the sky (as they do now over some major cities). Something simple and not too stressing on the graphics card. There could also be a delay between performing the command and the attack taking place. An opposing Master SL could also have an ability to detect the strike few seconds before it happens, so that the targeted group can have a chance to spread out or take cover. SL calling for the strike should probably remain in the area until attack is performed.
b) Create a mission. This is just a vague idea, but Master SL should have ability to access a special Player mission terminal (probably in Player Cities only) and create a faction (or may be even a hunt) mission. Master SL should have ability to go in, get a list of possible attackable targets (Enemy HQ bases, enemy aligned NPC cities, etc.), select the target, set cash and faction award, required faction rank to access the mission, and then create a mission. The list of targets, mission difficulty, and payout (that would come from faction's treasury, not SL's pocket) should be determined by Master SL's rank within the faction. I am not exactly familiar with the mechanics of how missions in SWG are generated, so I'll leave it at that.
c) Ability to turn covert players into overt players;
d) Ability to control 1 extra faction pet. Maybe an ability to call out a unique pet, like ATAT or some Rebel LAV (Land Assault Vehicle).
Q: Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
A: Skill modifiers. Temporary grant special abilities otherwise not availalbe for all professions.
Q: How could/should they interact with other professions?
A: Need healing, need combat professions for fire/melee power, need crafters for equipment. which means SL needs equipment. Here are some idas:
a) binoculars - for accuracy modifiers and aiming special attacks. Could be a wearable item (neck), and craftable by Artisans;
b) radio -to call for a strike. Cand be a datapad item, craftable by Engineers;
c) map - for terrain navigation modifiers. Can be either a datapad item, or wearable (belt), craftable by weaponsmith.
and so on.
Q: What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
A: Should depend on ranged combatants for heavy fire power, and melee combatants for close-range combat.
Q: What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
A: Their unique and special abilities should make them the primary choice for a PvP group. They should also have ability to generate some small, PvP based, GCW missions.
That's it. For now.
What offensive abilities?
This needs to split into two areas of analysis: (1) individual offensive abilities, and (2) group offensive abilities.
Effectively, every squad leader has a secondary profession. The squad leader profession should enhance that secondary profession. The skill points need to be modified so that the squad leader is able to master squad leader and another combat profession. This should include: TKA, fencer, swordsman, pikeman, rifleman, carabiner, pistoleer, and commando. Of all of these, the Commando/MSL is not possible, leading to the question, "Who leads these shock troops into battle?" You may include smuggler for the Han Solo role playing types. However, bounty hunter is specifically excluded due to the 1-to-1 PvP nature of that profession. The BH should truely be an elite combat profession unbeatable in 1-to-1 combat, but gaining no bonuses from squad leader abilities.
Individual Abilities. The squad leader should be more proficient with his weapon coming from the required combat xp in this role. I propose that a squad leader's damage with his weapon should fix the maximum damage of his weapon, but reduce the variance of the damage of his weapon, by increase in the minimum damage value. The reduction in variance would increase as the squad leader becomes more effective. This would require the squad leader to not only improve his MSL abilities, but also increase the abilities of his combat profession. Additionally, you may looking to providing an overall % boost to the offensive abilties that a squad leader would get through his secondary profession. A MSL/MasterPistoleer should have a noticable advantage over a MasterPistoleer (ceritus paribus).
Group Abilities. This question does not make much sense from a group perspective. For example, suppression fire may both be a defensive tactic (e.g. to retard the assault of the enemy, to fix the enemy as you call artillery) or an offensie tactic (e.g. to reduce the accuracy of enemy as you flank the unit with another one). However, thebenefits may come from: (1)improving the ability of a member of the squad to repair his weapon while in the group, (2) inspecting the weapons of his group, providing a temporary "slice" to his weapon, (3) overall passive offensive bonuses from unit cohesion, and (3) providing directed leadership to noticable weakness in the group similar to the command /steadyaim, /volleyfire, and /rally. A squad leader should have small enhancements to his UI allow the sharing of information such as the /sysgroup message but also a /grouptarget ability. In addition, the squad leader should also reduce the HAM cost of using a special for every member of hissquad (which would probably be the largest benefit a squad leader could ever give his squad).
What defensive abilities?
Individual. Again beter use of his equipment,his armor should provide a reduction to overall encumbrance of his armor. (This should also be given to commandos and bounty hunters). His passive personal modifiers should be given a small boost as well ranging from 5% as a novice SL to 20% as a MSL.
Group. The groups defensive bonuses should particularly boosted, especially when a member is in the prone. The presense of a squad leader should allow members to SHOOT WHILE MOVING IN THE PRONE POSITION. Medics should also be able to tend the wounded from the prone position. In general, the benefits of the prone position is vastly understated, the prone position provides a drastically more stable firing platform that the standing or kneeling position and reduces the sillioutte of the soldier by more than 80%. A soldier in the prone should be almost impossible to hit except by standing combatants next to a his adversary in the prone. This would provide the needed reduction in the speed of battle and drastically reduce the effect of Master Weaponeer position unbalancin PvP against younger combatants. The squad leader should also have the ability to place fortifications similar to the Ranger camps. These camps have the ability to boost the defensive attributes of people within the camp, and an increased ability for medics to heal wounds. The squad leader should also have specfic commands to increase to the defensive bonuses of the group.
What unique abilities?
Using a poor analogy to fantasy RPGs, the squad leader is in effect a combat oriented bard. Like a bard, he inspires his troops and his abilities should also have an effect on the opposing enemy. However, unlike the bard, his abilities are relative useless outside of combat. He should have the ability to clear all negative combat states similar to /formup but should also include knockdown and blind.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The squad leader should be essential to group combat. The loss ofa squad leader should have largest effect on the group. Throughout military history, snipers and assassins have always aimed at taking out the leadership. Because without leadership, a unit is generally combat ineffective. A group withouta leader should have as large as an impact as a group without medic abilities. Have you ever heard of an effective combat unit without a person specifically appointed to leader that unit?
How could/should they interact with other professions?
I would only exclude bounty hunter from interaction with a squad leader. Squad leaders should hate bounty hunters for their complete, though extremely inefffective, mercenary attitude. Squad leaders and bounty hunters represent different versions of combat. A bounty hunter is a solo killer feared from the shadows. A squad leader himself is not particularly feared, but a group of Master Bounty Hunters should fear an equal sized group of elite combants led by a Master Squad Leader.
The ability to designate specific roles: this is has been covered in a specific thread within the Squad Leaders Forum and it's contents and ideas are too numerous to explain here. The squad leader is a complex profession and playing itwould be difficult for players who like to lase-and-blaze.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Given their lack of offensive abilities their dependancy on other combatatnt should be in the actual application of firepower. On his own, a squad leader is useless, but with his pool of information as well as his ability to efficiently fortify positions, a SL would provide the nescessary defense for combatants to fully unleash their offensive capablities.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Within the context of the galactic civil war, the squad leader should be given imminent importance. Squad leaders should represent the primary means of interaction within the GCW.
Squad leaders should have the following abilities of recruiters: (1) the ability to promote in rank up to but not including their own, (2) the ability to be able to provide the ability of a soldier to become overt, (3) with the help of image designer disguises the ability to make a soldier immediately covert.
Squad leaders should also have lower costs to purchase faction perks, perks that are only available to squad leaders (e.g. such as ATST), provide additional bonus faction points when on missions, and be able to unlock larger and more interesting missons at faction mission terminals (e.g. have to take out a faction base, protected with ATSTs andclear out anunderground bunker).I would imagine that faction missions would be more difficult than hunting beasties.
Other things I'd like to see.
(1) Squad Leader Mission terminals. These missions should be the only missionsthat give group xp. This should be similar to the investigation line of the bounty hunter (perhaps the leadership branch). They would have payouts similar is size and scope to a Bounty Hunter. However, while a Bounty Hunter keeps all the money, the squad leader has to split it up. (e.g. a group could only hold two Squad Leader missions, but those missions might payout 30k - 40k a piece for a mission that takes up to an hour).
(2) The tactics branch should contain the squad leaders personal combat enhancements. This experience should be derived from combat xp. The general effect would be that a player would master another weapon experience tree (and possibly several) before gaining the experience to become a MSL. Squad Leaders should be pretty rare.
(3) There should be a benefit for Squad Leaders within a PA.
(4) Shooting at a lair I can understand. Shooting at a flag is stupid. This should be changed to the group leader overriding a self-destruct mechanism.
(5) More interaction between artisans and combat professinals. I buy a lot of stuff and I've never met any of my vendors. No bartering over price. Star Wars is sci-fi, but was almost post-apocalyptic in the state of the economy. I'd imagine that weapons, armor, and spice would all be sold in the black market. Smugglers should actually smuggle stuff, and bounty hunters should hunt smugglers down.
What defines the Squad Leader role in Combat?
I believe the defining characteristic of a Squad Leader should be leadership. This is difficult to implement as consent of group members is required dividing leadership into the intangible "leadership-like" qualities, and tangible "leadership-like" effects, those that can be observed by the group. The Squad Leader should be a rear member of the party, definitely not a member of the front lines. He should be useful in small hunting parties and multi-party city and guild warfare along with massive battlefield campaigns. The only real hard and fast method of creating a hardened, leadership oriented combat veteran is just that, making Squad Leaders combat veterans...The number one most important thing for the Squad Leader profession is SERIOUSLY restrict the Squad Leader XP. The newbie/hologrinding Squad Leaders aren't helping anything in this game. I suggest restructuring the SL tree entirely to force one branch to be Combat XP, not SL XP...probably the Strategy or Tactics Tree. Additionally in order to reinforce leadership the ability of the Squad Leader to store and view the waypoints of all members of the hunting party would greatly aid in the leadership potential and avoid the whole "I'm 350m out! Well I'm 348m out that means I'm next!" arguments that take place. In PvP as well as PvE the ability to "paint" primary and secondary targets without modifying effect would serve as a graphical leadership tool to increase tactical gameplay. Additionally the ability to aquire SL specific missions that enhance the ongoing GCW would help.
What
Stupid no edit button....
What basic combat elements should they possess?
I agree with the majority of posters in that the Squad Leader should have a support role. In addition to the aforementioned suggestions, I love the idea of Squad Leaders (MASTER!) being able to make players overt or covert. I also like the idea of designating groups within a team and increasing the number of players in a group to say 30. Inside the group members could be designated based on their strengths. Higher the level in Squad Leader the more groups (platoons, fire teams, whatever) could be established. /addtogroup the member to a close quarters team for a small melee defense bonus, ranged units to a ranged group with bonuses to hit, medic units in a medic unit for bonuses to treatment speed, etc. Although I'm not sure how well this can be implemented, I also like the idea of top down views....but I'll address that one in a second. The linking of squad leaders to form battalions is also a great idea, that way multiple groups can be coordinated together for massive assaults and city raids with SL modifiers averaged out across the groups.
What offensive abilities?
Volley Fire....worthless. No one likes being told what to do here. Allow us to paint a target as priority and leave it at that....that said....
Command Shot: This ability would give SLs a single combat attack (and a sweet reward for spending the massive amount of skill points we spend)to support the team.The attack simulates the officer drawing his firearm for that one crucial shot on another officer in order to sway the balance of the battle. Attack does majormind damage and knockdown to the single target as well as Intimidating the entire group/mob within a certain radius. In order to prevent this from being too deadly however, A) 5-10 min timer. B) Nice chunk of ACTION pool C)Small chunk of the mind pool.
Rally:I like increasing to hit modifiers but it fails ALL THE TIME and costs a ton of HAM.It also restricts all kinds of other actions. This makes it not worth it to even bother using.
Covering fire: Decreased accuracy and posture down target for the group. This would simulate the whole "COVER ME I'M GOING IN!" ...Targets being fired upon by the group are hit less but are postured down. The timer on this would be very short and drain the SL mind pool slightly.
Steady Aim: No complaints.
Passive bonuses to accuracy and damage!!!!!
What defensive abilities?
Passive bonuses to melee and ranged defense....I havea shirt that gives better melee defense than I give someone as a Master SL. Lets pick it up a little.
Small resistance bonus to Dizzy and Blind
BIG Resistance bonuses to Warcry, Intimidate and Stun
What unique abilities?
Here we go...Fortifications...but several types. A bunker fortification which is a SL craftable structure that gives bonuses to defense only. (Not reusable) The bunker can be targeted and destroyed. A member clicks on radial menu to enter bunker, while inside he cannot move without selecting exitbunker. Inside the bunker gives considerable defense against ranged weapon types, no defense against melee types. A commando should be able to place a special heavy weapon inside the bunker that does great damage but he can't move while firing.
A field hospital tent. Players would not enter the tent which is a SL crafted and placed structure which gives bonuses to injury treatment, injury speed and cuts 15 sec. off the recovery time of a rez. Players do not have to /enter the structure, just be within the small radius of the tent.
The command tent...This tent would have a "comm station" which connects to satellite providing the SL with a more, top downview. Additionally fora Master Squad Leaderit would give a bombardment action for an aerial assault (this would have avariable circular error of probability as well as effecting all targets, friendly included...similar to grenades) The command tentis a longer lasting structure with a mission terminal (allowing for multi-legged missions or longer duration campaigns). I'm sure that someother great ideascould be appliedhere but I'm running out of coffee...I'll update with moreideas later.
Here's a related issue that I think could be added to make this Profession even more fun to play with.
Reward additional bonuses by a Rank scale within a Faction for the Profession.
Basically... a Captain on the Imperial side would be granted more bonuses than a Sergeant on the Rebel side... so on and so forth.
Food for thought at least... maybe a few of you can expand on this idea.
Sincerely,
The Lunatic Fringer
Wow, a lot of really big changes suggested here. Remember, when working with a large group of people, even a small skill mod can have big effects. That being said I think the only things that should be changed are the addition of a group general accuracy skill mod and defense vs states skill mod. It would also be nice if Volley Fire actually switch the groups target rather than have them fire a single shot then go back to their previous battles.
PS One other thing is that a novice SL has nothing to offer the group other than a chat box. Why would a group want to make a novice SL their leader if he cant do anything for them?