Development Cycle Archive

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Discount wrote:

What defines the Squad Leader role in combat?

A SL should lead [from the back]. A SL should be able to see the whole battle and then be in a position to issue commands to either the whole group or individuals in a group.

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Im not trying to flame anyone, as this is a concept post and whatnot. Im just trying to share an opinion.

Squad Leaders should NOT lead from the back. Do not mistake an SL for a general or other officer who leads from the rear of th ebattle. Some of the greatest military leaders have led from the front....but an SL is not essentially a high ranking officer either.

An SL is mor elike that veteran Staff Sergeant, or the Ranger Lieutenant of World War II. Mobile, and very active in the front lines LEADING MEN FORWARD. That is what the SL should be.

We should not have to skulk around in the rear, and we should be able to move forward and accompany our men right on the front lines. Please do not turn SL's into the weak and scared "lead from the rear 'cus we dont liek whats goin on at the front" officer portrayed in many movies.

If you want an idea of what SL should be like, think of a Ranger or Airborne Lieutenant in WWII (Band of Brothers type stuff).or, dare I say, Starship Troopers (bad movie, but fun). Those are the types of leaders SL should be.

As a U.S. Army member (and yes i know this is SWG) i would enjoy seeing these group combat abilities:

The Perfect Group...

1) Team Lead: Master Squad Leader (Platoon Leader) - Coordinates with up to 4 Squad Leaders via diminishing return stacking buffs. Has the abilities to define a Team Leader (Alpha thru Delta) possibly changing the radar and map PC indicators to circle for one squad, triangle for another squad, square for another and so on. has the ability to assign the entire platoons target (i.e. /platoonTarget) or an individual squad target (i.e. /squadTargetA,/squadTargetB, /squadTargetC, or /squadTargetD macros)

2) Alpha thru DeltaTeam Lead: Novice to Master Squad Leader - performs the abilites of squad buffing and rallying (with some of the great ideas mentioned earlier in this thread added or fixed). Has the ability to change squads target based on a skill mod that increases up the tree with the chance of targeting failure thru a loss of target lock (i.e. /squadTarget)

The Team leads squad target ability could not override the Platoon leaders ability for say 5-10 seconds

With this approach a seasoned Master Squad Leader could set up a melee squad, a ranged squad, a medic squad and a sort of special ops squad (BH, Commando, Smuggler) for taking on Armies of NPC and PC combatants

What defines the Squad Leader role in combat?

To lead, direct, observe, liason with units higher up in the military chain.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

They should be adequate combatants with pistols, and carbines.

They should be able to call in reinforcements, ask for support fire, liason with other squads.

What offensive abilities?

They should provide offensive bonuses to all members of the squad.

Call in artillery/air strikes at the cost of faction points.

What defensive abilities?

They should provide defensive bonuses to all members of the squad.

What unique abilities?

Volley fire.

Artillery strikes

Prepare position (designate an area for defensive bonuses for his squad, kinda like city specialization: Stronghold)

Request NPC troop support, on the fly, for important objectives.

Command multiple humanoid Faction pets.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

A group led by a SL should win hands down against a group not led by a SL.

Volley fire should add a bonus based on the number of people in the group. Riflemen and commandos should count more for this than any other profession.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

Riflemen should flock to them. Commandos should seek them out, as well as combat medics.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

They should have unique benefits in the requisition of faction gear. There should be things only a SL can get such as "Artillery Strike" or "Reinforcement" faction perks. Rank should give significant benefits to the SL, for example cheaper faction purchases.

They should get multiple faction pets out at the same time, as long as they are human sized. Like a CH with pets.

How about a SL target list? A SL could have a special target list that could hold5 targets in it and other group members can que off of that list. The SL would need an easy way to add target to that list and move items up and down that list. SL could say CHs attack #1 commandos hit #3 everyone else hit #2. Each member hit the coammand to target that # mob and off they go.

What offensive abilities?

They should have certifications for special blasters. They should then gain abilities with these blasters that are useful when others are also attacking an enemy but weak when solo. This way the SL would have the combat skills that merit all the combat xp they have but would still be weak solo.

What defensive abilities?

They should increase group members devensive abilities significantly. They should be able to increase them over the caps for normal profesions.

What unique abilities?

the ability to change the entire groups target indefinately (like volley fire but the target remains until the player changes target themselves)

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What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat?

Squad Leader is the only profession in the game that should require abilities in real life to be 100% effective. You don't have to know anything about engineering to be an Architect, nor does being a Bounty Hunter require anything but hitting your EyeShot macro over and over. Being an effective Squad Leader, however, should require having leadership skills! There's no way to code around requiring at least basic leadership abilities to be a truly effective Squad Leader, so why not instead run with that requirement and make things interesting? Put skill back into a game of templates and button-mashing!

With that in mind, a Squad Leader is an individual with charisma, intelligence, and respect who motivates and inspires his squad members to perform and achieve to the maximum of their abilities. Merely being in a group with a Squad Leader should cause an increase in individual performance, but the greatest influence from a Squad Leader should come through intelligent use of his active abilities, from placing defensive bunkers and squad weapons to giving temporary defensive and offensive buffs.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

Buffs, both active and passive. Passive buffs should be decent but not fantastic; the active abilities should provide the most significant buffs, and these abilities should be creative, not simply "push button and get +20 to accuracy."

Better organization of groups and group waypoints. We aren't generals who sit at a desk all day, but an interface to plan and manage battles as they occur would be fantastic. Groups should be made heirarchical, with a Master Squad Leader able to indirectly lead a group of over 20 individuals by delegating lower-level command to other Squad Leaders.

What offensive abilities?

I agree with the "none as an individual" crowd -- the Squad Leader line should not include any specials or modifiers to any of the weapon professions. Our weapons are our group members, so our specials should only deal with group members.

Our offensive special abilities shouldinclude buffs to various stats, including accuracy, weapon speed, and damage. A reduction in HAM costs would be welcome, too.

Active abilities to do a Volley Fire on a specific HAM pool -- "Aim for its head!"

Ability to place an immobile group-based heavy weapon akin to the E-web. Should require two or more individuals with Ranged Support IV to fire (giving weight to a skill branch useless in PVP), and can only be deployed by a Squad Leader.

Whatever you do, please don't turn Squad Leader into a Puppeteer. We shouldn't have abilities to completely take over the actions of our group mates.

What defensive abilities?

Simple passive buffs to ranged & melee defense. Active abilities to increase defense at the cost of mobility.

Active abilities to add defense against HAM-specific shots. "Keep your heads DOWN!" could either reduce the accuracy of or damage dealt by Mind, Eye, and Head Shots.

Placement of defensive structures like bunkers

What unique abilities?

Master Squad Leader should be able to function as a partial Faction Recruiter, allowing group members to /declare (if the leader himself is declared) and /undeclare, with the same restrictions as NPC recruiters.

Most (if not all) special abilities should have a wide variety of effects, with both a positive and negative side to them. "Hold Your Positions" could provide increased defense and accuracy, but prevent group members from running. "Charge!" might increase weapon and movement speeds, but significantly drop accuracy and defenses. "Form Up" can stay the way it is, but add a 1-2 second delay to all members who are cured of states as they "shake it off."

If an ability doesn't have a down-side (like HAM-specific targeting), make it cost a non-trivial amount of HAM to use. The other abilities should cost VERY LITTLE to use; their real "cost" comeswith the negative effects.

The overwhelming idea here is that playing a Squad Leader should require intelligence and observation. A SL shouldn't just sit behind his group mates spamming the same "Uber Squad" special over and over. He needs to be paying attention to battle, looking for the right moment to use a specific skill to give his group the edge they need for the given situation.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

As others have said, if two equal groups, one with a SL and one without, fight each other, the one with an SL should win. However, the SL-led group should only win slightly if the SL does nothing but take advantage of passive buffs. A group with an active SL who uses abilities when they are appropriate should decimate the opposing squad.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

Unlocking skills for group members is a cool idea, but I don't think it's necessary. If you give us excellent active abilities and decent passives, we will be wanted.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

This question is redundant to Squad Leader. An SL only functions when in a group. Therefore, other combatants are needed for an SL to do anything.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

Raid leaders, faction base defenders, mobile recruitment, field commanders.

My dream for Squad Leader is a class that rewards intelligent gameplay, real-life leadershipability, and tactical and strategic knowledge with fantastic group bonuses. Not all Squad Leaders are created equal, and those of us who can lead in real life should be given all the tools we need to lead in Galaxies.

What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat?

The Squad Leaders role should be that ofgiving bonuses tohisgroupmates for increased effectiveness in combatand also special abilities to increase coordination amongst all the groupmates.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

I beleive they shouldhave special abilitiesthat enhance their other skills whatever they may be. For example if a SL decides he wants to become a master rifleman then he should receive bonuses to rifle skills when grouped. And that should be relayed to his groupmates too, increasing their skills in rifles!

What offensive abilities?

A SL offensive abilities should be related to the skills he decides to puthis other skill points into. Maybe one of the trees in SL should be related to boosting his other combat skills that he already has.

What defensive abilities?

Defensive abilities should be thesimilar to the statement above.

What unique abilities?

Id like to see SL have the ability to give his groupmates unique abilities related to THEIR profession. For example if a commando groups with a Master SL he gets an indirect artillery type ability in which he can take waypoints fromscouts in the group to fire mortars at that location with splash damage and everything. Or if a medic is in the group with aSL it would grant the medic the ability to heal from farther distances and things to that effect.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

See above

How could/should they interact with other professions?

They should eccentuate their groupmatesabilities. Even more so if the SL has points in that proffession. For example if the SL is a master in Pistoleer then all pistol weilding players in his group get even more bonuses to their pistols than just the regular boost compared to a non-pistoleer SL. This would give value to all different kinds of SL templates

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

Id like to see 2 trees changed in the SL proffession. One should be related to boosting the skills the groupmates already (Eccentuating Skills Tree)have and the other related to boosting the skills of the groupmates according to the SL combat professions (Lead by Example Tree). Each of the 4 boxes in each tree should grant progessively better bonuses until the last box which would give an abilitygroupmembers coulduse in combat specific to their profession.

Some ability ideas for the Eccentuating Skills Tree

If any of these professions group with a Master SL they get:

Commandos: artillery fire (indirect firing ie. mortars)

Pistoleers: Wield two pistols

Cabineer:mega overcharged shot

Rifleman: extended range

Ranger: conceal (hidden on radar)

Bounty Hunter: Reveal (reveal concealed players)

Scout: Recon (quickly able to send waypoints to the group by targeting)

Combat Medic: Self Sacrifice (invulnerable for a few seconds)

Some ability ideas for the Lead by Example Tree

If a SL is a master in one of these professions his groupmates get:

Commando: grenade certs

Pistoleers: Health Bleed with any weapon

Carbineer: Action Bleed with any weapon

Rifleman: Mind Bleed with any weapon

Ranger: Shrouded vision (removes all players from the radar)

Bounty Hunter: Infrared Vision (removes allplayers outside the groupfrom concealment)

Scout: Untrackable (cant be tracked by rangers)

etc,etc........ these are just random brainstorm ideas definately not your vanilla flavored upgrades. But hopefully you get the idea

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

The advantages of having a SL in your groupshould make a group so powerful that every group will want one to stay competitive. Especially for PVP!

One more thing:

When in faction PvP, a group with a squadleader should be able to conceal his group from the enemy. This can be done by making all overt players blue on the radar and not showing there faction, so basically staying covert but not. At master level the squad leader could have all members not even show up on the radar. This would be perfect for ambushes, at this time there is not much tactics involved when u can see the enemy coming.

The Squad Leader is a strange bird… It is unlike any other profession in the game, with Ranger being its closest cousin. A Squad Leaders sole purpose is to benefit his group, be it directly before battle, while in it, or afterwards. Gameplay wise this translates into providing passive buffs, skill mod defenses and attack boosts, increased accuracy, etc. Anything that can grant an advantage for the team. Any combat skills that the Squad Leader does have will be based off of another profession, be it pikeman to commando. That is the SL’s choice, yet it is smart for him to pick a class that will not tie him up in the throws of actual combat. They need to keep a watch on the field of battle so they can decide the next move for the group.

One of the prerequisites to becoming a Squad leader is the Ranged weapon support line. Gaining combat xp advances you through the entire line. The Squad leader needs to have experienced a good deal of combat before even being considered to lead. Any basic combat elements are taken from the other skill the SL decides to pursue, be it a ranged weapon (more economical xp-wise) or melee.

The squad leader uses its group as the main offensive ability. As stated before any combat skills are gained from another profession. By providing passive buffs, group skill mods, etc. for the group it increases the offensive abilities for the team, which is what the SL’s purpose is in the first place. Though because the SL is the third highest skill points sink, it should gain maybe a few extra skill mods strictly for the SL themselves. Such as additional general ranged aiming or alertness. These would be best found at the master Squad leader box so as not to encourage dabblers.

Again the group takes the role, this time as the Squad leaders defense. Any other skill mod defenses will be gained from other combat professions. The buffs and skill mods strengthen the entire group providing a better defense. Along the same lines as posted in the above paragraph, providing a few additional defenses solely for the Squad Leader at master would be a good incentive to go that high in the profession. Just the normal ranged and melee defenses would be good, though small increases to one or more of the stun/dizzy/blind/intimidate/KD/posture change defense stats wouldn’t hurt. Once again everything at master so as to not entice dabblers.

The Squad Leader is not strictly about passive buffs and skill mods. It also should include a hefty set of leadership/tactical skills that will further enhance the group while in combat. The current skill set does work, but they are not that powerful and can only be used when the need arises… which in most cases is never. The Squad Leader community has come up with some great ideas to provide the Squad Leader with some unique abilities, which can be found in the following link.

Squad Leader Ideas and proposals

The profession is itself unique as a combat support class, not strictly combat like a commando yet not exclusively support, as a doctor would be.

The Squad Leader is group combat. Everything that makes up what the SL does and works towards, orbits around group combat. Unlike say a carbineer adding AoE/crowd control skills to the group, the Squad leader provides an advantage for every member of the group; be they a novice marksman or a commando.

Squad Leaders NEED other professions to do what they do. They lead groups and provide bonuses and benefits to that group in exchange for… well being a Squad Leader.

Since the Squad Leader has to spend 135 skill points, (the 4th most cost heavy combat related profession) they have just enough to master one of the 7 main combat professions (4 melees and 3 ranged). This provides them with sufficient combat capabilities, so they can hold their own. Yet it doesn’t leave room for much else. I personally have to rely on medics to heal me, tanks to protect me, and other ranged combat players to assist in taking out a target. I chose carbineer to assist my team though… not for them to assist me. They can do more damage when I KD the mob or put on a status effect. A Squad Leaders only dependency is on his squad.

The GCW should be seeing some changes in the next month or so with the “Imperial Crackdown” patch. So as to say how exactly they will fit into that I cannot say. I would like to see the Squad Leader play more of a crucial role though. Currently the one use is to blow up bases, though this is just at novice SL and they provide NO bonus at all for a squad.

"Hence in the wise leader's plans, considerations of advantage and of disadvantage will be blended together." - the Art of War

I wonder if it's a good idea to assign the ability to use high lvl combat droids to Squad Leader profession. This would make SL more useful and popular.

Even thoughit might not fit to the name of the profession, renaming the title would be easy.