Development Cycle Archive

agreed. They need pistol, rifle, unarmed, and carbine skill mods and specials, perhaps even new weapons of each.

Before answering the questions, I feel as if the commando should be the more balanced of the two hybrids...since commandos actually require more combat skill points, they should have moderately be balanced for both ranged and melee fighting (since those are the two skills we must train in in order to be novice). However this does not necessary mean "uber", at the moment the only advantage we have as a class, is the damage (mainly by the flamethrower). However, whats high damage worth when we: Cant Hit, Cantshoot, or miss?? Or worse, when we do hit and can shoot and dont miss, the other class we're fighting (lets swordsman for example) keepts counterattacking nearly all our shots? Whats the point with damage if every non-hybrid elite combat class has some sort of Counterattack/block/dodge..and where as the two hybrids do not? Whats our purpose then?

Onto the first question:

1) Role - as stated above, we should be the more moderately balanced of the two hybrids. This being where we have decent ranged defense, and decent melee defense, which would put us into a more "support class" rather than a "suicide class" as it has now became under certain circumstances. Thus, we should still be considered a support role, but not really a support role at the same exact time..more like a hybrid of the two. Take RL for example, true commandos are not front line soldiers, they are not taught conventional tactics. We should be no different.

*Note* For the next 3 questions im going to combine - combat elements, offensive, and defensive capabilities.

2) Combat - I think the our entire defensive map should be wiped and totally restructured. This being, we should have these elements: Low special defenses, Moderate Melee, Semi-High Ranged, Super-High Attack, slow delay on attacks, a form of counterattack/block/dodge or a new skill mod to desively negate these mods of other proffessions, high accuracy or improved accuracy for certain situations, and lastly certain situation specific vulnerabilities

With special defenses, as a drawback, we should get none or close to none of these (special defenses in being like def vs kd, dizzy, etc) and of course the slowness of our weapons as the major drawback. But unlike our current 1 to 3 in advantages: disadvantages, we should have these plusses: The High Damage, a block/dodge/counterattack or similar mod that negates these of other proffessions (such as a special that works like aim, but more specifically?) and of course balanced standard defenses

Our main weaknesses under this will be: We will be prone to KD's and Dizzy, and other special attacks that induce state changes, and especially when we are in delay (a certain vulnerability opening), slow reload, limited range with specials

However heres our strengths: Balanced standard defenses (including a block type mod), high damage, high accuracy

Essentially thats a 3 to 3 ratio of advantages to disadvantages, how it should be for ALL CLASSES, the ratio should always be the same to each number, always. Why? Because each class hads its weaknesses, BUT has its advantages that help cover those weaknesses or prevent enemies from exploiting that weakness. At the moment, we have NOTHING to prevent the exploitation of those 3 disadvantages (which we do have at the moment, with only ONE of those strengths)

And to restructure our defense/offense tree, I propose this:

Sprinkle melee and ranged def throughout the commando tree

Add in a block type mod in field tactics

Up accuracy on all weapons (master perk? - make the hvy weapon accuracies +100, and up flamethrower/HAR to +120 or around there)

Add in a special that is similar to aim in Marksman, but geared towards commando weapons and is advanced

And most importantly, add Launcher Pistol Tree /w specials to ease dependancy of flamethrower

And lastly to end this question:

Maybe also get creative, come up with a new defense for commandos when they have their weapons out..like lets say they get an added defense bonus ONLY when their weapons are equiped, but with weapons outside their tree (and outside the character) they do not...we NEED bonuses as perks for hybrid classes..and you wouldnt see a vetern commando operate as well with a sniper rifle would you?

3) Uniqute abilities - the ability to hit hard and fast (then take a while to reload..) but nevertheless, keep this..we take a risk, and it works except for things mentioned above

4) Advantages/assets for groups - see above for most of that, as a support role in groups, we're at our peak...we can fight on our own for a while, but not for extended time...we are elite combat troops who do surgical strikes, get in fast, make one hell of a mess, get out faster...at the moment, we just are not like that

5) Interactions - Big explosions, 'nuff said..however if other classes got Kd/dizzy, they can easily out manuver us with "conventional" tactics and beat us...but we should be able to use speed as our option to go in and give em hell for a bit...so...as with our unique, we're the big boom in combat..but that boom does not last as long as the little boom (thus we hit hard, can take decent punishments..but with enough force and/or specials we can be decimated)

6) Dependancies - as stated above, our main role should not be main line combat, but more as surgical strikes...where we can go in, hit hard, and try to get out fast..but we're able to take enough punishment to do that..but can't last forever against overhwhelming force and special tactics...therefore we're dependant on other classes who can fight longer (where they can volley a special attack that kd's the guy..then the other guy does the same thing..fight lasts longer, etc..we're one sided...if they kd us, we cant kd them back..but if we manage to get inside their window of oppertunity, they're goners...yet again..its the RISK factor)

7) Unique Role: One of the few classes that can take down heavy vehicles/turrets..the "Heavy Weapons" from Infantry Online, but parred with the "Infiltrator" (hvy duty, can take decent damage...but also has a trick or two up his sleeve)

And thats about it, i was going to write a long conclusion but decided not to..but to summarize:

We have a strong weakness in delay, range, and special defenses

We have a strong strength in damage, accuracy

We have a semi-strong strength in defenses

(really its not a perfect 3:3 ratio but close)

We get in quick and hit hard, take enough punishment to get out (we can do battle one on one however..as we should as a hybrid class..but our role more defined as the BH [who should be the true PvP role or ultimate ranged combatant] and a bit more balanced in defenses [in order to apply our damage up close, we need to actually get there...with a BH he can do alot of dps at long ranges, so doesnt have to worry about defenses as much..but at the same moment not making us "uber", but able to actually perform our job..which we are deficient in.

And lastly, we Take a Risk...but at the moment that risk is not fair; we have more ways of loosing the risk than winning it...

I HATE THIS BOARD!!!!! That's the second time today it posted a message of mine incomplete, or cut out over half the post, lol.

I must confess that im too lazy to type the rest of what i had written again, as I also am cynical because of the treatment TH and the devs have had of commandos and feel that this thread will be either ignored, or like the DE fiasco, completely misinterpreted.

In a small summery of what I had written, here are the two biggest points. The heavy acid rifle needs to go. EVERYONE hates it and even if it weren't broken, nobody would use it. It's way to similar to the flamethrower. It should be replaced with a rapid fire beam rifle, perhaps dishing out cold damage to compliment the flamethrower. This should be the bread and butter of commandos, their all purpose weapon and should deal very high dps.Two, the E-web needs to be added to the game, as it would provide for incredible pvp encounters. It should be a master level weapon only, and would need at least 10 seconds, undisturbed, to be set up by the commando (possibly assisted by a special droid). This would in essence be a mini turret, with an arc of attack of say, 120 degrees. However, if outflanked, the commando should be a sitting duck from the sides or rear, adding a certain tactical property to the location of E-Web. The commando would have to rely solely on his fellow combatants to keep the enemies at bay while he sets up his E-Web.

Commandos spend the second amount of skillpoints in the game, every single one of their boxes is combat related. I do not think it is unfair to ask for the commando to be the elite soldier in the game with exciting unique abilities such as the E-web. They should not dish out state effects (except on the rare occasion in which a flamethrower would be wise to use) and should rather be the damage dealers of SWG. That means highest dps output. Defesively they are just fine mitigation wise, as they aren't meant to be tanks. However, being that they are combat hardened veterans, they should get some moderate defenses vs. stun, dizzy, and kd (especially kd, since they must be unarmed IV).

I think it is actually refreshing that people are complaining that a combat class is too powerful. I mean isn't that the point. Sure a Commando uses one weapon at close range to do all their damage but thats what they used all those skill points up for. I think these are the changes that need to be made:

1. Stop looking at a commando from a WWII era and look at them now. A commando is an effective silent hunter. They use a smaller version of larger weapons as there main weapon. (US Army Delta force and US Navy SEALs use the M-4 instead of the M-16.) Commandos do have large armaments to take down tanks and planes but it usually not a primary. If you so choose to keep weapons such as a flamethrower in the game you do need to remember that this weapon is BANNED in real life because of what gamers are complaining about right now. IT ISN'T FAIR!! This weapon was horrific when used causing massive burns. This weapon had a very high rate of fire and a very short range. I think personally it is exactly how it should be deadly and unfair. I didn't spend my points to be at the same damage level as a carbinier or pistoleer.( I leave out the riflemen since they are much more powerful than any other class in the game right now.) I spent those points to do massive amounts of damage. To wade into the worst combat situations and show the other combat classes how its done. I'm sure many people see it this way also. In short you need to make this THE best all out combat class in the game.

2. There is no Content for a Commando. You spend 170 skill points to be a walking flamethrower. You do not get any special missions. You don't get access to anything cool except for the flamethrower and you want to nerf it. So what then would be the point of having a commando? I could get master rifleman for 93 points, or pistoleer or carbinier for the same amount of skill points. Even still, I can spend the 218 to be a bounty hunter. So if your gonna nerf you need to throw them a bone.

3. Get off the "role" idea. The whole point of a commando is someone who fills the needs of the ever changing battlefield of the future. If you want a character that do PvP they should be a commando. Why should a pistoleer equal or be balanced with a Commando? Thats what they have 157 extra skill points for to balance them out with a commando. Think about it a commando needs to have brawling, but there is nothing in his tree to follow these skills. up with. They are useless. A commandos "role" is SWG should be that of Ultimate combat character. They should be the soldiers on the field that scare the normal ranks. They should strike quickly and quietly laying waste to their opposition. Then when things the get messy they can use they heavy weapons and waste vehicles and turrets.

Here is the way I think Commando should be laid out.

You should have to master both Marksman and Brawler first.

Tree1 Should be Assault weapons. ACommando specializedrifleand carbine and keep the launcher pistol. this should cover range defenses and other defensive stats. This would continue the marksman class. These weapons should be something likethe elite weapons but with slightly less damage or something to set them apart. Give one or two specials to these weapons. maybe even keep them the same.

Tree 2 Should be Advanced Hand to Hand combat. include a batton, a sword and some nasty unarmed strikes. Also this should cover melee defenses and other defensive stats. This would continue the Brawler class and give some close range versatility. Give them a sword and some piano wire. I will explain this on the fourth tree.

Tree 3 Should be your heavy weapons tree. Include your Flamethrower, grenades and shoulder mounted weapons here. The Flame thrower should not be changed in damage but the decay should be moved way up. Maybe even make it a charge type weapon like grenades and rocket launchers. this will keep people from using them but maintain the deadly effect of the weapon on personnel as was intended by the weapons design. Also include a LIGHT REPEATING BLASTER in this tree instead of the acid rifle. Also give it a high rate of fire and have it decay quickly. Both the Flamethrower and the LRB could be made to over heat with use. Also both can retain the simple specials that are in place for the flamethrower.

Tree 4 Should be Advanced Espionage and Gurrilla warfare. These should be stealth skills. I know using something like this would be difficult in this game but it should be here. There should be a sneak function to get us in and out of enemy bases and installations. This could also be used to sneak up on characters and take them down with piano wire. Also serve to make us better at combat in general.

This should all culminate into a master box that makes it worth while to get too.

I think this would make a good class. Also if you put in Commando mission terminals after these changes you would have a functioning class that has a "role" but is also difficult to attain.

Thanks for your time.

What defines theCommando role in combat?-

********A COMMANDO IS NOT A RAMBO**************

• A commando should hold up his own. After all he is a special military unit trained and organized as shock troops especially for hit-and-run raids into enemy territory. SO he should be able to take out turrets with easy such by going into stealth and planting explosives on turrets.

What basic combat elements should they possess?-

• A command should keep his flamethrower. IMHO they should be equiped with a high powered assault rifle, allowing Riflemen to take part in other professions. A nice pistol skill should be avalable- High Powered pistols compared to a Desert Eagle, or maybe be a silenced pistol to have that suprise element. And of course a ordnance skill for gernades (flash bangs maybe, which induce stun knockdown and blindness), mines and maybe a motar.


• What offensive abilities?- Effenctly taking out enemies without attracting too much attention or used for hit and run. So planting mines, explosives on turrets, crippling defences so the main attack force and strike.

What defensive abilities?-

• Something like stealth to allow the commando to remain hidden. Maybe some defences against energy damage.

What unique abilities?-

• Oh manI could go on for days...but in a nut shell: Flame should stay (including no **edit** DOT resistences, i mean come one, "im on fire but since i have this special shirt, it will block me from burning alive!") and make a firewall as a flame special. A Knockdown ablilty with a pistol or flame thower. A rifle meele ability such has having an attached bayonet. A high powered rifle could be fully automatic(such as an AK 47)or sort of like in the bolt action fashion( such as the Arctic Warfar Magnum). Maybe a flashbang or smoke gernade which would apply ranged accurcy pentalies. Pistol suprise shot. Stealth (maybe used against NPC and would be like masked scent)

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?-

• Flamethower would not lauch fire balls and would be limited to a 16m range and the normal attack would be the flame thower special that is currently inplace. It would be able to sneak into a base and take out vital instalations so the main assault team would not suffer as many casualites.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

• A commando would be vital in base taking operations and allowing all other combat proffessions to storm the base. They would not be PvP gods. They would excel in PvE, so a hunting party would no longer require buffs or pets to take good creatures.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?-

• As stated befor this profession would also combatants to make their way into enemy territory without getting mown down by turret fire. They would also support by throwing gernades which would help the attacking side get a short upper hand.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?-

• This profession would be the most unique role in the GCW. It will allow a side to cripple the opposing sides facilities, allowing a swift take over without the annoyance of a stalemate. (this comes from battling in a rebel town and being banned from using the cloning facility. we were near the cloning facility while the rebels just spawned like crazy and we couldnt do a thing about it because combat medics were throwing poisen and disease from the basement.)
  

Gonna give a shot at this and hope my browser doesn't crash again...

* What defines the Commando role in combat?

The Commando is fire support, meant to specialize in eliminating groups of enemies by the use of ranged weapons and massive volumes of firepower from a distance.



* What basic combat elements should they possess?

Scrap the Acid Rifle - it's useless. Merge all heavy weapons including the flamethrower into a single line of the tree, and make everything in this tree a charged weapon. Create an Suppression line on top of the old Acid Rifle line which uses Light Repeaters. Replace the Launcher Pistol with the Light Repeater. Something with fairly fast fire rates that we can use to really suppress an enemy force. This would become our intended primary weapon. A second line, on top of flamethrower, that yields some close quarters combat(unarmed) skills - this justifies the Unarmed pre-requisite and gives us a close-in threat.

Finally, make charged weapons use Master Artisan-crafted ammunition(batteries, fuel packs, etc) instead of ending their life after all of their charges are gone. Do this by making the weapons' damage range be 1-1, then having the pack add on top just like a powerup increase, with charges. Rifle isn't worth much when empty, but put a magazine in and you have yourself a weapon.



* What offensive abilities?

Mostly area attacks and suppression attacks. Forced posture-downs for enemies in the target zone. Major damage when they pull out heavy weapons and conduct a bombardment. Damage modifiers so we get a damage increase when we hit a standing target, and a reduction when we hit a prone target - this forces people to move more cautiously when we're on the battlefield.



* What defensive abilities?

Not many. Basically enough that a Novice Marksman can't pick us off easily, but not so much that we win in a sniping contest. Our focus should be unleashing a torrent of damage.



* What unique abilities?

Abilities to set up very heavy weapons and use them. An ability to stack aims on top of each other in order to generate extreme accuracy for single shots.

Somewhat more able to take care of ourselves in close quarters combat than any other ranged class, but not melee-competitive with actual melee professions.




* Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

The ability to keep a crowd of enemies suppressed and taking cover, reducing their offensive capability.



* How could/should they interact with other professions?

Buy ammunition packs from Master Artisans, support the other ranged classes on the battlefield by suppressing their opponents and allowing them to manuever.




* What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

Not a primary killer, a support role. The other classes target pools and apply a lot of states, we just debuff the hell out of the enemy and do area damage to them. Every Commando weapon should do area damage.



* What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

When the brown stuff hits the fan and the enemy sends an army, we slow that army down and give our shooters more freedom to move at will and buy time for reinforcements to arrive. We kill the enemy well when they're bunched up. Also good at taking out vehicles and turrets using our heavy weapons.

Commando should be a group-oriented class, not a solo class. We make everyone around us stronger, and inflict moderate damage ourselves, but we aren't built for duels.

These are SW:G Commandos, not old WWII and not Delta force.

All Heavy weapons should do large AOE attacks, we should not be able to stand in melee. We should not be able to solo a single attacker that is playing smart, but should be able to wipe out 20 attackers charging into our fire zone.


X-Master Commando here

A lot of people see Commandos as Delta Force or some kinda of uber warrior. Okay lets sign everyone up right now and dump all the other professions.

To me a commando is the master of heavy weapons. As such they should be attacking heavy targets. Vehicles, buildings, and other fortified places. They should be able to defuse mines and have AOE attacks that can work against personel.

Other than AT-St's there just arent a lot of heavy targets and such that would fit this role well. Blowing up bases and such should be where the commando shines.

Up close and in a fight, they should be weak. Heavy weapons dont' work well at close range.

I see PvP more as a role kinda like Battlefield 1942 where some things are super powerful against something but another type of weapon is better vs them.. These themes should be developed and then stick to it. No profession sould be better than everyone all the time.

What defines the Commando role in combat?

Main role should be anti-vehicle and anti-structure support. We should not be anti-personnel. That's the job of everyone else (riflemen, carbineers, etc). More vehicles and defensive structures (light/heavy gun emplacements for bases, other structures that would need to be destroyed before a successful assault on a base could be performed by other professions) needs to be added to give this role more refinement. Currently Imperial Commandos would have nothing to do.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

The ability to deal high amounts of damage to vehicles and structures.

What offensive abilities?

Main offensive abilities against vehicles and structures. Enough ability to hold our own against other combatants, but other players should not be the main priority for our offensive abilities. Enough ability to take down pve targets for skill or have missions where taking down structures gives us the xp we need. Perhaps even have vehicle pve mobs that we could go after. IE, Corsec deserters with light tanks.

What defensive abilities?

Good defense against vehicular and structural weapons. Some defense against other players. Our main defense against enemy combatants should be other friendly combatants. Perhaps give extra defense against other players while grouped.

What unique abilities?

The use of heavy weapons (including stationary weapons). New permanent stationary weapons such as turrets (as in the various turrets used on Hoth in Return of the Jedi) should be placed in certain battlefields that could be used by commandos for use against player and npc vehicles (at-sts, at-ats, and whatever new vehicles are added light tanks, heavy tanks, etc)

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

As with their role, Commandos should be needed to support the main troops against heavy weapons platforms that only they could effectively deal with.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

We should support other classes and not be the "Best of Everything" combat class.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

Commandos should need support against enemy combatants from friendly combatants (riflemen, pistoleers, etc) while they provide support against enemy vehicles and structures for the friendly combatants.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

As they currently are, they should be heavy weapons support. Vehicles such as AT-Sts and structures such as turrets should not be able to be taken down by pistoleers or other combat classes (well perhaps jedi). This should be the commandos' domain only.

To give the whole commando class a role, various vehicles and structures should be added to the game from light, medium, to heavy armor ratings. Novices should be able to deal with light targets. As one moves up the Commando trees, one should be able to deal with the better armored targets with master being to handle heavy targets or even very heavy targets (AT-ATs) with groups of other commandos.

Probably not feasible since vehicles and structures would have to be plentiful to allow the commandos to carry out this role on a daily basis, but it would be nice to see happen.

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Kisedd wrote:

A lot of people see Commandos as Delta Force or some kinda of uber warrior. Okay lets sign everyone up right now and dump all the other professions.

To me a commando is the master of heavy weapons. As such they should be attacking heavy targets. Vehicles, buildings, and other fortified places. They should be able to defuse mines and have AOE attacks that can work against personel.

Other than AT-St's there just arent a lot of heavy targets and such that would fit this role well. Blowing up bases and such should be where the commando shines.

Up close and in a fight, they should be weak. Heavy weapons dont' work well at close range.

I see PvP more as a role kinda like Battlefield 1942 where some things are super powerful against something but another type of weapon is better vs them.. These themes should be developed and then stick to it. No profession sould be better than everyone all the time.

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Kissed,not singling you out, but if this is the way commando is implemented, then it should not be a hybrid class, rather a normal elite class. In order to justify the massive amount of skill points invested, commando's roles should not be limited to just heavy weapons that get an extremely rare use here and there. They have many more combat skill boxes than any other profession, and that should be reflected in the game. They should not be balanced vs. normal elites, as normal elite professions use half the skill pts. The commando role should be king of the battlefield, not necessarily pvp (that should be BH's), but rather they should excel in tactical GCW situations. You cant use a shooter (even one as great as BF 1942) as an example, when in those games there are no investment of limited points. SOE's first description of commando was the most feared class on the battlefield, it's time that this description became fact.