Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-7: Combat Roles; Fencer
Glad you liked the Unarm Opponent idea for Master Fencer... and here's another idea... how about either... and this may be branching into a general thread topic that I saw on another forum... but does relate to Fencer very much:
Give us a Two Weapon fighting style. This is most likely only going to relate to two classes that I can think of... Pistoleer... and Fencer. The rest of the classes are either 2 handed weapons by nature.. or unarmed. I think this would be great for a Master Fencer to know how to do.
Naturally we'd expect to see a little less accuracy with the off hand... unless your going to allow us character feats too at some point... aka... ambidexterity.
Then fencers would have different levels of Master Fencers... I'd like to see that from all the classes really... not just Standard... Oh... I reached Master Fencer... I'm the same as you... We'd then have Fencers skilled at using 2 weapons... some not... but use them anyway... and the one's that just stick to one weapon. This kind of diversity is what we need and want. Any thoughts on this idea?
Sincerely,
The Lunatic Fringer
On the Parry idea... I agree on this one... but I'm thinking more along the lines of a defensive animation for it... since our melee mitigation and defense techincally *is* the game mechanic for parry I think. We just don't get to *see* it in action.
Sincerely,
The Lunatic Fringer
Stackable bleed specials for Fencers does sound like a good idea... and going back to some of the finer points of a Fencer... they, indeed, can widdle an opponent much stronger than them down in this mannor. This reflects the idea that a Fencer doesn't have to use brute force to win a fight... and I like that.
Sincerely,
The Lunatic Fringer
This is probably completely absurd too... but I remember in the role playing games... any character could try to use a lightsaber... they just had a lot of negatives when they tried to do it. This may actually be a great idea for this profession... let us use lightsabers... and the 2 handed Swordsmen use the Doubles... we'd still have to find them to use them... but... it'd actually help to throw off the community a little bit... which could help out both professions... so... add a TEF for us if we use them too... *because people just might think because we're using a lightsaber... we're a Jedi* idea.
Any likes or dislikes about this idea? *I love little quirks like this myself* Adds spice to the game.
Sincerely,
The Lunatic Fringer
Im a master pistoleer and a smuggler and I just wanted to make a few comments...
I agree with what most people are saying about speed and mobility. Pistoleers must be the fast and agile of the ranged combat professions, that is their identity. Dual wield would be cool, but I dont think its entirely necessary at this point in time. Offensively and Defensively pistoleers identity should be their speed. A pistoleer should never stop moving.
Now for my main point in posting... Let people dabble in other professions. I dont like the idea that a pistoleer/fencer is going to lose out on extra dodge or other defenses. A pistoleer should be able to take advantage of his/her experience in sword fighting (or carbines and 2 handed, etc). If you really want to prevent people from dabbling in professions adjust the skill gains in the classes. Currently in most skill trees, you get the same amount of skill gain for lvl 1 or 2 as you do for level 4, this would make dabblers choose what they wanted to do instead of getting a single tree from 5 professions. Realistically, a pistoleer should be able to take what they have learned from fencing and apply it to gunfighting.
I want to be able to make my own hybrid class like pistols/smuggler in order to help advance my pistol fighting. People should be able to take advantages out of multi-classing. Id like to see Pistoleers encouraged to improve their pistol skills by undertaking sister classes.
Possible sister classes for pistoleer:
Fencing (melee's version of a pistoleer should grant more speed defensively)
Dancing (added mobility when firing a weapon)
Smuggler (dirty fighting the way it is)
I believe that you could link professions together like this and players will develop great and unique characters. Just because we dont enjoy the hybrid professions as much as professions like pistoleer, dont make us become 2 professions that do not benefit each other.
What defines theFencerrole in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
I want to say what nobody has the guts to say about this profession, and that is they should clearly have the lowest damage output of any profession. Not "moderate" damage, not "decent" damage, be honest and say the "LOWEST". Now thatwe have that taken care of and people are brought back thereality that one of the professions has to be the lowest in damage output per second, we can be constructive and focus on what makes up for the classes low damage output.
What offensive abilities?
- Give the fencers the ability to choose what HAM bar they aredamaging to account for their precision.
What defensive abilities?
- Make them have extremely high dodge bonuses when not wearing armor against both melee combat and ranged combat. (Make them the "hardest to hit" class)
What unique abilities?
- Give terrain negotiation and run burst efficiency to account for the agility of a fencer.
- Give the fencers the ability to duel another fencer on the stage of the theator resulting in mind wounds being healed for the people who watch.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
When an incoming enemy melee class nearing the fencers group to chew up all the people holding guns, the fencing steps in as "anti-melee". He can't do high damage, but he can't get hit either and that results in him stalling enemy melee types for extended periods of time.
The same way athe system balances with Rifleman being the commando/Bounty hunter killers, the fencer would be the Melee killers.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
- Two fencers could duel on the stage of a theater creating an entertaining mind healing show. If grouped with musicians, it could createa unique situationthat results in the rarest andstrongest of mind buffs and gives a purpose to the theaters to differenciate them from cantinas.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
- Make them have rediculouslyhigh bonueswhenchallanging people to a duel or accepting other peoples duels. Thiswillhumble those who are currently in professions that lend themselves toconsistanly winning duels.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
- I think fencers could be incorporated, as I stated above, with with musicians to heal mind wounds on stages.
- Smugglers could be given functionality to set up gambling tournements that allowed fencers to duel. This could also heal mind wounds in the few select cities that would have the illegal underground facilities to hold such an event. Like the unused basement in theAncherHeadtavern.The duels not only provide a sport for illegal gambling, but would buff the mind higher than an entertainer can. Much more interesting than having a bunch of entertainers standing around running macros.
I will publish my opinion based on my real-life (IRL)observations and taking into account the gameplay provisions stated by Thunderheart, IRL, I am tolerably well acquainted with the sword ("A" class fencer, "C" class Epee and Sabre). I practice kendo. I am honored to hold a black belt in japanese karate-do.
What defines theFencerrole in combat?
A fencer should be second fastest melee profession (next to unarmed). However, they should get the "drop" on unarmed and other melee combatants due to their reach plus speed. Such a thing may be difficult to write into a combat system.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Speed, Flexibility, Mobility, Freedom of action
What offensive abilities?
Enhanced speed,"Called Shots" (target specific pools - fencers are incredibly accurate with their thrusts)
What defensive abilities?
Parry, Dodge, Side-step, Defense vs. Status Change, Melee defense, Limited ranged defense (not as limiting as Two-Handed weapons, simulating the fencers ability to more easilyadopt a sideways posture, presentinga smaller target)
What unique abilities?
Counter-Riposte - Counter Riposte is basically a counter-attack of a counter-attack and follows the true spirit of fencing and Star Wars type dueling as seen in the movies
First Strike - Attacking in reaction, but prior to another melee attack (assuming attack is initiated from the 2m-4m range). Think of Obi-wan lopping off the goon's hand in the Cantina. Or think of my Kendo-buddy Dave getting very annoyed at me when he initiates his over-head slices with hisshinai (practive katana)only to have me jab him in the face with my rapier before he can complete the swing (Sorry Dave, I know it is cheap, but I always get you with that one).
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Excels in close combat and Multiple opponent combat (greater flexibiloty and range of motion)
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Fencers should provide excellent Player versus Multiple enemy in close range support.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Fencers would have very limited range. Fencers would be dependent on external healing and ranged support.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
-Wicca
LunaticFringer wrote:
Stackable bleed specials for Fencers does sound like a good idea... and going back to some of the finer points of a Fencer... they, indeed, can widdle an opponent much stronger than them down in this mannor. This reflects the idea that a Fencer doesn't have to use brute force to win a fight... and I like that.
Sincerely,
The Lunatic Fringer
This is probably completely absurd too... but I remember in the role playing games... any character could try to use a lightsaber... they just had a lot of negatives when they tried to do it. This may actually be a great idea for this profession... let us use lightsabers... and the 2 handed Swordsmen use the Doubles... we'd still have to find them to use them... but... it'd actually help to throw off the community a little bit... which could help out both professions... so... add a TEF for us if we use them too... *because people just might think because we're using a lightsaber... we're a Jedi* idea.
Any likes or dislikes about this idea? *I love little quirks like this myself* Adds spice to the game.
Sincerely,
The Lunatic Fringer
love all these ideas, especially the idea about different branches of master professions. Heres my 2 cents on that though, maybe when starting a profession, say fencer, you would have the ability to choose a given path in that profession and train in that path alone. Stay with me now, say I just finished one handed 4 and it tells me I qualify for novice fencer, now when I goto get that skill I have to choose between dual weapon fencing style, or 1 weapon fencing style. This would make sense in a realitic manner as a person doesnt usually train to use two different styles of one certain battle art together. Also you could branch these off into completely different professions that are very closely linked to one another in effect. Different specials and modifiers could apply this way. Also maybe say that 2 out of the 4 skill trees for dual fencing technique could be used for single fencing technique, this way it wouldnt be impoosible or improbable for a dualfencing master to also complete the single fencing skills as well. Im just spouting out ideas now but I think doing this would add much more depth, originality, and feelings of uniqueness.
Oh and thats what I thought about the rantok, but was told otherwise once a while back. I still do def wanna see another weapon for us though.
Fencer is just the title for a one-handed melee weapon specialist. All swordsman throughout history have always relied on speed and agility, but even more than both of those they rely on PRECISION. A fencer does not whittle down opponents, "nicking and cutting" is only done when to fencers of equal skill are fighting. A fencer cuts quickly and where it counts, crippling or cutting down opponents before they can fight back.
What defines theFencerrole in combat?
The fencer should be a skirmisher, able to quickly get into enemy ranks, cripple or slow them, and frustrate them while slower heavier hitters move in for the kill.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
A fencer should be quick and agile, having great dodge skills and even better parrying abilities.
What offensive abilities?
A fencer should be able to strike vital areas, diabling or slowing opponents and be able to cause very high wound damage. A fencer should be able to use a weapon in each hand, compromising accuracy for a defensive edge and multiple attack angles.
What defensive abilities?
The best defense is a good offense. A fencer should have attacks that disarm, or temporarily keep their opponents from attacking, they should also be able to launch a flurry of attacks that knock opponents off balance while only doing minimal damage.
What unique abilities?
A fencer should be able to target specific stats like strength or stamina, simulating damage to vital areas. A devastatingly powerful counterattack, demonstrating how a fencer is always looking for the ideal opening even while under attack.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The fencer should be the first sent in while ranged fighters lay down cover fire, and heavier close combatants follow. Fencers should move quickly through combat slowing and crippling their opponents while pikemen and heavy swordsmen follow to deliver the killing blows.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
A fencer would need all other professions to effectively stay alive. Artisans for supplies, medics for healing, entertainers for relaxation, and ranged fighters for covering fire and support in combat.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Fencers should compliment all other combatants. Their accuracy and ability to deal out crippling or slowing attacks would work to the advantage of a heavier front-line fighter who could then safely hack down their now more passive opponent. Their speed and ability to cover ground quickly would allow for ranged fighters to lay down cover fire as the fencers set siege to their enemy. In close quarters, such as interior combat, a fencer would be unmatched, and paired with a pistoleer...unstoppable.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Base infiltration. In tandem with pistoleers the fencer would be able to wade into base and cut down the opposition. On the other side of the coin, in base defense they would work the same.
TorchedAzz wrote:
Sorry to say this and I'm not flamming when ido but "this profession is lame and should be dropped and something else put in it's place". It doesn't make sense to have a "fencer" profession in a futuristic setting like Star Wars...
What defines theCombat Medicrole in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
A: They should be very hard to hit since they use light, agile weapons.
What offensive abilities?
A: The current ones are fine.
What defensive abilities?
A: The current ones are fine.
What unique abilities?
A: WHen you think of a fencer, a fencer typically uses attacks on the upper body, the Health damage a Fencer does is just fine as it is. The Stun Baton was a great Unique Ability a Fencer had because we were one of the 3 classes that could do this type of damage in PvP. This is falling to the wayside. With armor coming out with Stun Layers, we are just Kinetic dealers anymore. Stun Damage in PvE is great.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
A: The current state effects a Fencer can do to targets with a Health Bleed is their asset. Also their Brawlers skills of Intimidate, Warcry, and Taunt.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
A: I have to buy armor and weapons form Weaponsmiths and Armorsmiths, have to get a Mount from a CH, have to buy a Vehicle from a Master Artisan. I have to buy buff packs (I can self buff) from Doctors since I cannot craft them (out of skill points). I am a Novice Scout so I can harvest for guildmates who are Doctors, Combat Medics, Bio-Engineers, Tailors, and Chefs.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
A: As with any Melee type, we should be relied on to tank in PvE. In PvP, we can just provide out state effects on our enemies for others to benefit from.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
A: No Comment here.
2.)What basic combat elements should they possess?
3.)What offensive abilities?
4.)What defensive abilities?
5.)What unique abilities?
6.)Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?