Development Cycle Archive

Thread: IC 1-7: Combat Roles; Fencer

Frodawg
Sat Jan 24, 2004 7:31 am
#27

What Defines the Fencer Role in Combat?


Speed and Technique. Low Ham and High speed should allow them to quickly exploit the weaknesses of single opponents. An opponent should attack with caution and aggressive opponents should be diposed of quickly.


What basic Combat Skills?


Bleeds Blinds a differant posture change system (explained later) Maybe something that can add HAM costs or affect the opponents speed accuracy etc.


What Offensive?


All Offensive should be Passive. A fencer should be able to wait for the right moment and attack when the opponent is most vulnerable. A fencer should also have the lowest speed cap of all. But still have and attack (with a large delay) to use as a final blow or in a situation to cripple the enemy.


What Defensive?


Obviously plenty of Dodge. I think the abilities shouldbe that a fencer is hit very rarely, however a fencer should be fragile so the few hits that due manage to land will do a lot of damage. I think a lot of counter should be added as explained in my posture change system below.


What Unique?


Precision should be played up a lot more. A fencer should be precise enough to hit an opponents weak point. As I stated earlier puncturing certain points on the opponents body in order to increase HAMs decrease speed etc. Also the current armor holes should be organized here. A precise attacker can find joints, get under plates etc. So these holes show the representation that a suit isnt air tight.


As for Posture change Move to kneeling doesn't work for me, unless they are dizzy. I would love to see a system that the more posture changes (standing, but a measure of balance)the more an opponent becomes vulnerable to attack, easy to hit, close to falling down, less accurate etc. So the fencer can plug away bringing them to a breaking point. Also as i mentioned counter an imbalance opponent will be exploited by the fencer who gains the ability to counter-attack them as they swing wildly.


Should add what in group combat?


In a group they should go around bleeding blinding etc. while letting their team do the hard damage. They also should siphon out single targets and eliminate whom they can.


How do they interact with other profession?


Not a tank as they shouldnt absorb damage, they prevent it. They are more of the mobile assassin or a member that leaves oppenants with a sting that prevents their effectiveness.


What should be the unique role?


The quick accurate one who makes use of posture.



Frick
Hermitess
Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:00 am
#28




Shadowmite wrote:

Having just started up the Fencing tree, I was a little startled to see that Fencers never get a Rapier. You can't "fence" with a sword - and Fencers never should be able to dual wield anything.



Just as a point of accuracy, one handed fencing like the kind in movies was mostly done with a foil not a rapier. Historically, fencers did duel wield. Rapier fighting was usuallydone with two weapons, a rapier in the right hand and a parrying dagger in the left.


Cate Dagonet
Corbantis

EricPadon
Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:00 pm
#29

Really nothing to say. Everyone has described how I have been thinking fencer should be.



____ 'Eric Padon _______________________________________
"Wait, I thought stormtrooper armor was some of the best you could get?" -- "It was."
"Wasn't the Spraystick a weapon that fired nets?" -- "Yeah."
"Oh...and which episode was it where doctors would supercharge people so they could take on armies by themselves?" -- "That never happened..."
"This game is called Star Wars: Galaxies, right?" -- "Yeah." -- "Ok, just checking."
Xenozx
Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:46 am
#30

My point of view on the Fencer / and melee proffessions in general


For reference I can mention that I am Master TKA / Master Heavy Swordsman / Master Fencer on Chilastra - also had Master Brawler....


1. I see the Fencer as angreat tank in pve as well as pvp andgooddamage dealer - the way things work now a tka do way more damage in pvp than any other melee proffession due to their high damage bonuses and the effect of damage mitigation which seems really odd as it is hard to understand how a fist or kick even with armored boots or a knuckler in your hand can do as much damage as a two-handed weapon ehh ??.


2. I think this proffessions should have the most attacks that adds special states of all melee proffessions - like stun / dizzy / kd and so on. They should also have the bleeds that they have now.


3. Fencers should be able to dual wield 1 handed weapons for better damage performance and defensive skill and thus make up for the lack of armor piercing and damage that these weapons have at the expanse of accuracy. They should have a wide variety of damage types to make use of and they should have the ability to do critical hits due to the precise nature or such weapons they wield. I would also like to see special melee weapon powerups that could be made by weaponsmiths only maybe different types for different effects and lvl's of weaponsmithing. etc. poison powerups / fire powerups immagine phosphor injectors in a blade... maybe armorpiercing powerups...


4. As for defensive abilities I think the melee proffessions should all be rewamped so that we get stances. etc. light stance that allows for really good speed / lower damage- medium stance with great defence medium damage and medium speed - heavy stance that allows for extreme damage and AP but low defense.


5. Some nasty specials like -Critical flurrythat should soak up your hams but boost your attack speed / presicion and raise the chances of doing a critical armor bypassing attack - this should last 1 - 2 and 3 minutes based on the skill you have this would mean that you need a doc to heal you while you berserk or have some really good buffs at the ready. Special critical attack like last ditch for smuggler that can bypass armor and do extreme damage.


6. Should add a morale boost that enables groupmemebers to perform more valiantly and thus get betterspeedand critical chances as well as defensice boostor maybe even a combinationt - maybe this could be done so that the swordsman can run an aura like effect and thus decide what boost he or she wants to add to the group.


7. The Fencer should be a really good asset for when you want to go take on some heavy mobs or do mass pvp.


8. TheFencershould rely on doctors and combat medics as well as firesupport from the rear ranks of a battle as well as the Offensice skills of athe heavy swordsman and tka as well asthe pikesman due to their superior tanking abilities...


9. TheFencers role becomes clear when you take a look at the advanced technology that allows for extreme personal armors and shields that protects against firepower of all kinds along with the many raids that to take place to clear out bunkers here you often get in close where the skilled melee fighterwith powerfull weapons can be vielded for good results in battle / factional headquarters as well as when big game hunting needs to take place.


Yours Sincerely

Xenozx

Xenozx
Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:06 am
#31

BTW!


All melee proffessions should be given a charge abitlity to burst in close combat with their opponents . like a 10 seconds burst run ability that recycles like once every minute or 30 secs.


Xenozx


Deleto
Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:51 am
#32

My biggest complaint with fencer is that we have a very limited set of weapons. As of now I am a master fencer and still using a curved sword because frankly the others are no better, and I qualified for the curved way back on brawler 2. The vibroblade, which is really our only armor piercing weapon, really sucks. It has extremely low damage and is rather slow when compared to some of the supposedly "lower level" one handed weapons. The fencer should have knowledge of weak spots and have weapons that could exploit those weak spots even througharmor. The addition of a new weapon like the rapier that was metioned earlier would be great. Give it light armor piercing ability and a little higher damage than the rest of the one handed weapons, but maybe only give the qualification for this weapon to master fencers. The weapons also limit our abilities in pvp, where we should excel. All a person has to do to match a fencer in pvp is have some tka and wear really good composite armor at this point. Think of it this way, A fencer, being a master of quick disabling strikes, should have a weapon capable of making those strikes even through the toughest of armor. In rl who would you bet on? 2 guys square off. Both are wearing the same armor. One has in hand a razor sharp one handed sword, the other has a pair of brass knuckes with a blade attached to it. The guy with the sword should be able to strike and disable the one with the knuckles before he evens gets into range to attack with them, but in the SWG pvp system the tka can simply walk through a fencer's attacks since they are extremely weak with no armor piercing effects and kd him with the first attack. Now granted I could see a master tka destroying a novice fencer, but a master fencer should also be able to destroy a novice tka. As of now it would be a toss up.



3Face Sink4
3Connor' McManus4
Wasted children, fixed blank eyes, blood and sweat, we socialize


LunaticFringer
Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:57 am
#33

The Fencer to me is defined as the epitome of skill, precision, and grace with the use of one handed weapons.


One thing I would like to see is some more animations for the moves... the Fencer is suppose to be stylish as a Rouge in my mind. When I see a Fencer, I think of The Three Musketeers... Pinache'... and the list goes on and on to more exuberant things.


A Disarm Move should be at the Top of the Fencer Tree. It is one of the finest techniques to master to be able to disarm an opponet with a sword and The Fencer is the one that should deffinately have this move. I can even see the animation in my head now... Your sword whips into a flurry of a cone... you see a *flash* of some sort... this being your opponets weapon flying up into the air... then either make it an advanced move... You capture your opponents weapon... or it just drops on the ground delaying their use of it for a round or until they can get it equiped again.


Hmmm... I've actually got to think about this more... This post piques my interest very much.



Sincerely,


The Lunatic Fringer





May The Goddess Smile Upon You!
Deleto
Sun Jan 25, 2004 8:07 am
#34

^I love this idea. Disarming another would be an excellent move for a fencer.


Oh and can anyone tell me what the use of the rantok sword is? It's the higest lvl one handed SWORD available but seems rather weak as well. Ive had one for a while and just can't quite figure out why it is supposed to be so good.




3Face Sink4
3Connor' McManus4
Wasted children, fixed blank eyes, blood and sweat, we socialize


MaxPhoenix
Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:33 am
#35


What defines theFencerrole in combat?
THe ablity to hit fast in vital points

What basic combat elements should they possess?
Speed and accuracy. the speed cap should be .5 for fencers and they should able to target key points of the body

What offensive abilities?
Head hit, leg hit, body hit. very strong dizzy and very strong bleed the class should be based more around putting the target to the ground , while bleeding from all 3 pools. there overal dmg should not be great but the bleed and the speed that attack should be great.

What defensive abilities?
Increased dodge or counter attack fencers should go down easy when hit but should be hard to hit . Most everyone should have diffculty hitting a fencer

What unique abilities?

Scatter Bleed -
hit all 3 pools with a bleed
Parry - should work like dodge/counter( an inate ablity) when it fires you should stop the dmg from there attack then hit them twice.
Finishing Blow - should be a hit thathas a 10x dmg multiplier but a -50 to hit. if it misses should cuase the fencer to fall down for 8 secs
Quickstep - this move would allow to move 1/4 faster then your target enemy

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
In group battle they should be the ones laying down the bleeds. Having the defs to tank lighter thnigs they are no god tank.

How could/should they interact with other professions?
Fencers should be able to sharpen 1h swords adding a small dmg bonus like 10 - 20% , it should be a tempory dmg bonus lasting 200 swings and stack with power ups.this would allow them to work with weapon smiths.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
They should require others to take down large beast , due to there dmg not being as high.




MAXAMUS PHOENIX
First Master Brawler on Eclipse
First Master Fencer in Retail
CurrlyBladeMaster
Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:27 pm
#36

i love my gaffi stick, to use 2 gaffi sticks, sweet. maybe that should be an elite skill to the blademaster. however 3 of our 5 titles have blade.... the master title is blademaster, why do the actual blades suck so bad, we need to have "blades" to equal the gaffi sticks. but i think i would still like the gaffi stick, what a nasty looking weapon. in the hands of the wookie a gaffi twig of death. over all the fencer skill is well balanced. no need for a kd, that comes with master brawler a mere sacrifice of skillpoints for such a nice skill as lunge2. but to dizzy the opponet, that is definately a trait of the fencer, and bodyhit rulz, fencer is well balancend in general. only prob i see is no actual "blades" as prefered weapons. fencers need another weapon or 2 added in. and dual wield would be a nice skill for a blademaster. perhaps the dual weild can be only acheived with the curved sword brining true meaning to blademaster. a gaffi stick would be too awkward to weild 2 of effeciantly. i say again, fencing skills themselves are well balanced, anyother skills are in the other classes and should be gained at the sacrifice of obtaining them thru expenditure of skill points into the profecian trees to aquire them. i dont beleive that melee and ranged skills should gain bonuses by combining like pistoleer. they are totaly differnt in theory. time spent in life to learn to master the melee combat is a totaly differnt school of thought than ranged even if the pistoleer has simular traits.



LunaticFringer
Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:33 am
#37

This brings up an addition that skipped my mind earlier and applies to all of the classes I think... not just Fencer. We need a bigger selection of weapons.


On the Rantok Sword... near as I can tell... isn't it still only quest loot, and thus, standardized as it is *aka... not player made* not as good as other player made weapons... Stun Batons and the Like?


Which in point brings up another related issue... Are the resources to make all the weapons spawning properly on all the servers? I'm only asking because it seems really hard to find some items essential to the Fencer and other Professions alike across the different servers.


So, to recap... We need a bigger variety of weapons if that's possible... and maybe make it at least a little easier for the Artisans to provide us these weapons as well. That's my two bits again. More to come...


Sincerely,


The Lunatic Fringer





May The Goddess Smile Upon You!
Hitokiri_kenshin
Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:39 am
#38


What defines theFencerrole in combat?


Speed, dexterity, and untouchability. Fencers should be light on therir feet and masters of precision. They should not do very much damage in combat, but thay should rarely, ever get hit.


What basic combat elements should they possess?


Speed, dexterity, debilitating attacks, real fencing weapons,and very little chance of getting hit.


What offensive abilities?


The fencer shoud be able to drain and wear down their opponents rather than beat them down with massive damage.


What defensive abilities?


When people go into melee with a fencer they should see almost nothing appear above their head except dodge, and counterattack. In most movies with fencer, in a 10 minute fight they may get hit every once and awhile.


What unique abilities?


The fencer is all about wearing down an opponent. Their bleeds should do massive damage compared to their attacks.The blind attacks are very appropriate but should do mind damage like eyeshot, but they should also have stun and intimidate attacks.


Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?


Real fencing weapons: The onehanded weapons that are currently in the game are for the most part unfitting to a fencer. Only the sword and curved sword really apply. The should be weapons like a vibro/stun rapier. This is the prefered weapon of almost any fencer in any genre. The batons are stupid and out of place. So is the power hammer for swordsmen.


How could/should they interact with other professions?


The fencer is a tank in that they should bae able to wade into melee and almost never get hit, but they should never be the big damage dealer. That should be the swordsman.


What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?


Ranged professions should be able to take them down swiftly with little problem. They should also be able to frustrate and scare off most pets of creature handlers until they get around CL 30 or so. They should also be dependant on other randed and melee professions for doing massive damage to their opponents.


What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?


In a sciofi genre such as starwars, melee combat is usually restricted to close quarter fighting. In areas such as base defense, fencer should excel.

Daire_Courant
Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:50 am
#39

What defines the Fencer role in combat?

I think that maybe combat with finesse.

What offensive abilities?

small compared to say pikeman, but the ability to hit any pool he wants.

What defensive abilities?

Huge Dodge numbers!

What unique abilities?
I like the idea of Fencers bleeds being able to stack, and they are able to bleed any primary stat. Therefore by themselves they are not a power house, but if they stay alive they will bleed you to death.
Also i like the Idea of some special "step-Back" move
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