Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Force Ranking System Feedback...

Utess
Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:37 pm
#40

I am a rank 7 Dark Jedi Templar III. I lose 700 rank xp every 4 hours. That means I lose 4200 rank xp per day. Since starting Jedi are worth 1200 xp per kill(the number goes up and down based on how well they kill) that means I need to kill approximately 4 jedi a day just to break even. This is, of course, assuming I don't die.


The problem right now is two fold:


1) The skill modifiers forranked jedi do not work, nor do the higher level robes have any stats. This means we are at the exact same power level as regular, non-ranked jedi. So, against someone with the exact same template as you, its an equal match. This is especially a problem right now as those with Master Defender/Light saber, plus the buffs, can not die. considering that is about 80% of the server right now, our options are limited for gaining xp.


2) The xp players are worth is horribly off. In the live environment, people who fought up to, for example, my rank, would have had to slowly progress upwards and also have the amount of xp *they* are worth, rise dramatically. Since we were artificially raised to test the system, most of us are still worth around our starting combat rating of 1200 xp. This means there is no significant advantage to killing a higher ranked jedi who, normally, would be worth 10 times that of regular player. If we are going to properly test this, all the ranked jedi need to be adjusted to their expected xp value for that rank.


The major problem right now is that we have to kill for xp, but the xp is either low, or we can't kill anything at all. In less than 24 hours I went from having 145k rank xp, to 118k rank xp. I managed to kill two jedi, but died several times in addition to losing my 700xp every 4 hours.


To be honest, I think the system is very nice, I think the buffer you get works well. But, until things are balanced, and until the advantages high level jedi are supposed to have are implemented, there is no way we can accurately test how good the xp loss/gain is right now.


I can say, however, that:


1) There is an issue right now with warping in the DJ enclaves. You may get warped to a higher level than you are supposed to have access to, and thus get stuck.


2) The challenge terminal does not seem to work, so none of us can duel anyone in an attempt to steal their rank.


3) The voting terminal either is not working properly, or we have mis-understood who votes. As it is right now, it seems that only people around the same rank a person is petitioning for, can vote. So a Templar III can not vote for someone applying for rank 2, etc. Is this intended, or is this a bug? Most of the system we were able to figure out, but this one eludes us.



________________________________

'Tess

- Utess Pero: Master Entertainer, Master Dancer, Master Musician, ID
- Andria Pasretti: Master Artisan, Master Merchant, Teras Kasi Master
- Tatiyana Karkuf: Master Medic, Master Combat Medic, Master Doctor
Aenea-MC
Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:39 pm
#41

like wise here...


Extremely hard to find overts on Flurry for rebel jedi.

Most imperials STAY covert and the server is severely lopsided in favor of the rebels.


Your server statistics (you = devs) should be able to tell you how many OVERT imperials there are on a daily basis.



Will this change anytime soon? No.

Are there enough people to kill to gain rank? Hell no.



Please make the rank XP scale to the # of overts per server.

If this is not possible please make the rank DAILY XP LOSS far far far less.


-Cixin Xofaw



Hunt_Master
Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:46 pm
#42

Got 9th rank from a Dev, andIstill do the same damage with my saber. I managed to take down 2 Light Jedi Knights with the help of 2 BHs using fastblast, and when I DBd them I got some really confusing mesages. I got a system message telling me my player ranking score was adjusted to 1288 or something like that, although I can't find this number anywhere, but when I check my FRS skilltree I noticed I had gotten 440 xp.


On a secondary note the Enclave is still full of floating food, and all the warping around when entering halls is very annoying. Can't you just make barriers at the doors? The whole 'warp back if not allowed access' system is really not a good idea.


Onto what I think of the system. I still can't see how we're supposed to progress and withhold our ranks. There's no way of getting XP without arranging duels or ganking overt normal players. Also the concept of hour-long Jedi duels makes it even more impossible to get XP, since the losing part can just run off (or call in backup) once he realizes he won't win. As it stands now I'm starting to think more and more that Jedi won't be more than a cool title, a lightstick and a cool robe..



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JavelinCatcher
Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:52 pm
#43






Jowet wrote:

i saw a dark jedi enforcer owning 4 light jedi. it took7 of them to do any real damage. she ran and lived. looks like the damage modifiers are working.






What you saw was a Master Force Defender. We're pretty sure the enclave bonuses are not working at the moment.



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Utess
Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:54 pm
#44






Hunt_Master wrote:

Got 9th rank from a Dev, andIstill do the same damage with my saber. I managed to take down 2 Light Jedi Knights with the help of 2 BHs using fastblast, and when I DBd them I got some really confusing mesages. I got a system message telling me my player ranking score was adjusted to 1288 or something like that, although I can't find this number anywhere, but when I check my FRS skilltree I noticed I had gotten 440 xp.





There are two numbers, the amount of xp *you* are worth, and the amount of xp your kill is worth(thus the amount you gain). The number you saw being adjusted is your PvP rating. Every time you make a kill, your rating goes up, every time you die in PvP your rating goes down. Jedi start at arounda 1200 rating. When you kill someone, you get their current rating in rank xp.


There is a hidden command. This command is /showPvPRating If you target yourself and use that command, it will list how much xp *you* are worth to another jedi. If you target another player and use that command, you can tell how much xp they will be worth when you kill them.


So, when you kill someone, you get their rating in rank xp, and your rating is adjusted to a higher number. Those are the two numbers you are seeing reported.



________________________________

'Tess

- Utess Pero: Master Entertainer, Master Dancer, Master Musician, ID
- Andria Pasretti: Master Artisan, Master Merchant, Teras Kasi Master
- Tatiyana Karkuf: Master Medic, Master Combat Medic, Master Doctor
Hellshot
Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:35 pm
#45


The feedback I need is how easy/difficult is it to gain FR experience. Are you able to make enough to qualify a new rank? Can you maintain the experience that you earn, or is it lost too quickly in pvp, etc.


I got bumped up to a level 7 templar with master enhancer, master defender, 0404 lightsaber. Right now there is very little possibilty of me being able to maintain or gain any level of experience for seceral reasons. First, the mods for 2 handed ls are broken (even force speed 2 doesn't seem to increase the attack rate) so I simply dont do enough damage faste enough to actually hurt anyone beyond there buffs. I was just testing with a bounty hunter and I could barely hurt her. I doubt it would help even if the mods were fixed given the low damage rate I do. Second, the enhancer line is the weakest of the 5 trees it seems since force powers do so little damage (no need to absorb), the state defenses are weak and don't defend against fire DOTs, and transfer force is broken. Third, jedi are essentially sitting ducks at choke points (e.g. starports) for anyone that has a melee combo attack or strong DOT since the melee combo attacks ignore armor (including force armor) and the dots also ignore armor,


Do the daily experience costs and costs for missing a vote seem reasonable? Keep in mind that TC is running the maintenance cycle at an accelerated rate. The true value is once per day.


IF combat were fixed so that it was possible to kill another jedi 1 on 1, the mods for rank were in place, and the enhancer line was actually of more use (probably a direct relation to the effectiveness of the power tree), then losing 700 rank per day wouldn't seem to bad. We have not had a chance to deal with the votes and challenges since there are open seats in every rank still.


One thing that I think could become a problem is actually finding other force ranked players of the opposing faction to duel. It seems like there should be some in game mechanic to encourage these players to meet and fight, like some sort of jedi battlefield.


If you lose too much experience, you lose a rank. Do the thresholds feel okay? Is the demotion setting up everything properly (your skills are correct, the enclave shows you at the proper rank)? Does the demotion work even if you aren’t on-line?


Hard to say since most people have lots of exp to act as a buffer at the moment.


The experience mechanics, including the demotions, are designed to work anywhere in the game. Test this out by doing battle on a server different from the where the Enclave exists. It is possible that certain problems could arise only if the player is not on the same server as the Enclave.


This still needs to be tested more, but I lost experience when I got unarmed combo'd to death on corellia waiting for the shuttle.


FRS Advancement Mechanics –


The promotion/demotion systems need a good workout. Are you getting the skills that you should get? Is the data on your character staying in sync with the enclave data (the rank you have as shown by your FR skill tree should equate to your position as displayed with /showCouncilRank).


Rank appears to be in sync, but I have no mods, nor does anyone else to my knowledge.


Make sure the petition/voting/acceptance logic is working as intended. Try to do wacky things to break it.


The only people that can vote at the moment are those people in the same tier as people are petionining to get in to. It seems like everyone at that level and above should get to vote.


Check out the Dark Jedi challenge system. Are you getting the correct TEFs? Can you find any way to "cheat" in order to give yourself an unfair advantage or to avoid the battle. Do the challenge acceptance requirements seem reasonable?


As far as we can tell, the only way that a challenge can be issued is if the rank above you is full, and as no ranks are presently full, this can't be tested. Also, the frequency at which the arean is open needs to be increased on test center 2. Further, it took a long time for the arena to go from about to open to actually being open.




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nolan007
Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:13 pm
#46






JustG wrote:

The Senior Designer who wrote the FRS needs your feedback. Here are some of his questions:



Losing of Force Rank experience –



difficult is it to gain FR experience. Are you able to make enough to qualify a new rank? Can you maintain the experience that you earn, or is it lost too quickly in pvp, etc.






demotion systems need a good workout. Are you getting the skills that you should get? Is the data on your character staying in sync with the enclave data (the rank you have as shown by your FR skill tree should equate to your position as displayed with /showCouncilRank).


voting/acceptance logic is working as intended. Try to do wacky things to break it.









Initial impressions from today:





Big suggestion: How about relocating the Light Jedi enclave to the direct opposite side of the map from the Dark Jedi enclave? I see a lot of camping the top outpost when this hits live if the Light Enclave stays where it is located. If it was the opposite side of the map, you'd have 50/50 chance to avoid outpost camping? Also, tons of lag on Yavin4.... major lag.









Spasmolytic
Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:13 pm
#47



BabyRancor wrote:
Since Knights should be able to take down multiple players (according to advertisement) I'd predict in this situation that there will be roving Jedi just looking to gank Overt normals. This will kill an already struggling PvP GCW and force even more people into the Jedi ranks to compete.





Jedi will only gain FRS points from killing other Jedi, Light or Dark. You cannot gain force ranking by killing non-Force sensitive players.



- Spasmolytic FED
"I am a cipher, wrapped in an enigma, smothered in secret sauce."
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nolan007
Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:15 pm
#48



Initial Impress from today:




So far, it seems VERY easy to loose FR XP.... and it seems VERY hard to gain any FR XP? I've been PvP'ing and killing Light Jedi -- however, doesn't seem to affect much of anything as far as my standing. Check out the Dark Jedi challenge system? Didn't see anything in the enclaves that indicated such a system was in place? (html parser got my previous message)



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( Maybe one day these ideas will be considered or implemented. Bump it, please? )

ArjunThakur
Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:32 pm
#49






JustG wrote:

The Senior Designer who wrote the FRS needs your feedback. Here are some of his questions:



Losing of Force Rank experience –



difficult is it to gain FR experience. Are you able to make enough to qualify a new rank? Can you maintain the experience that you earn, or is it lost too quickly in pvp, etc.






demotion systems need a good workout. Are you getting the skills that you should get? Is the data on your character staying in sync with the enclave data (the rank you have as shown by your FR skill tree should equate to your position as displayed with /showCouncilRank).


voting/acceptance logic is working as intended. Try to do wacky things to break it.










Any Jedi below Knight makes you actually lose 1 FR point. Promotion/demotion and the majority of the system is untestable as our sabers do not do enough damage to harm let alone kill another Jedi.


It is impossible to two Knights to kill each other, and barely possible even if one knight intentionally wants to die. I had someone "try" to let me kill them by staying knocked down, with no damage shield or saber equipped and I could barely do more damage than he regen'd from buffs.


Conversely I will reiterate the same holds true vs. a TK master wearing no armor.




-=BLUE GLOWIE=-
NancyJ
Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:38 pm
#50

Just a wee question as to the accelerated FRXP loss -
WHY?!

We're not gaining XP any faster (afaik) and there are no more playable hours in the day, so why lose it faster? All this seems to achieve is making it impossible to gain in rank.
The template I was given is Master Enhancer, Master Defender and 2h Lightsaber - I cant possibly gain in rank - I cant even kill bountyhunters if they're buffed
Went to Theed to find someone *anyone* to kill, been out there for about 2 hours, gained around 15 PvP rating but didnt get any messages reporting force rank XP increases, I even managed to get the DB on some poor light sider but got no system message saying I got XP.




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Dreamchant
Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:46 pm
#51






JavelinCatcher wrote:





Jowet wrote:

i saw a dark jedi enforcer owning 4 light jedi. it took7 of them to do any real damage. she ran and lived. looks like the damage modifiers are working.






What you saw was a Master Force Defender. We're pretty sure the enclave bonuses are not working at the moment.



yep.. that was me.....btw there was a QA Jedi Master in that group attacking me as well.....yes I haveMaster Defender.. and no the enclave bounuses don't appear to be working, and if they were I wouldn't be able to tell you becuse there is no description in the trees as to what we are supposed to be getting per each rank...




Dreamchant.....

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RedDragon133
Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:46 pm
#52

I am 9th rank in Jedi enclave:

- I loose 900 xp / day this will be. seems ok so far. but here on TC2 its too fast i cannot gain this xp back, because:

- killing "standart" rebel will gain me 50 points.
- I killed one Padawan (rebel) and gained -1 xp. hmmm. ok he is low but the relation is broken, isnt it?
- this padawan "allowed" to db him by the way. he was master TKS and kicked me badly before this.
- "hunting" for xp can i suseless. when I challange rebel to fight, they group with MBHs, thus giving them TEF. those on their side often use the scatter moves (fastblast) against which I am defensles. I tried the scatter moves of the Jedi, they do not get through defenses. (yes I tried to. I need to try all there is, right?)
- I was not able to kill ANY enclave member or get killed. we tried hard. I got knockdown and stayed this way with no shields, robes or saber equiped. I suppose I would have had to die on wounds. It cannot be intended that the player looses, whose buffs run out first, right?
- the lag in enclave is terrible sometimes. might be a high server load on this weekend though.
- buddy of mine, rank 8th, died to MBHs, six of them ang using fastblast and got deathblowed. he lost no xp at all.

yours
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