Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
RedDragon133 wrote:
@LeBob: why do soem ppl try to break fun in the name of contuinity? why or whatever this is supposed to be in fantasy/SciFi game.
Anyway, are you just another scared BH? Just asking, no flame. You know how much I enjoy the TC2, to PLAY my Jedi?
@RedDragon133: something that is worthwhile to keep in mind about fun (especially in MMOs) is that what is fun for you or me is often not fun for another person... being a SW fan way before I ever played my first MMO, continuity is very important to me... once SWG has gotten to the point that continuity has zero importance, the game is no longer SWG.... it will just be " G ".... the huge response to this game is due to the fact that it is indeed Star Wars.... once this has been beaten down to nothing the appeal of the game will be much lower
no, I am not a BH..... actually I'm a non com on live. I am sure you do enjoy playing your jedi on TC2........... I do too, but (just to imagine an extreme of what we are talking about) do you think it would still be fun if every player in the game was exactly the same as the ones in Theed on TC2?
I do not.
BabyRancor wrote:
AFAIK the Jedi visibility system is still active - Jedi that get flashy in populated areas would wind up on the terminals. If the combat balance makes BH capable of taking on Jedi, and the issues with Jedi Bounties are sorted, this would be enough.
LeBob wrote:
Jedi should not be allowed to go neutral. If this is allowed, there will be three factions in the game... Rebel, Imperial and Jedi... furthermore the occurence of seeing a saber-wielding Jedi will be too frequent as these neutral Jedi will not have to worry about a TEF and therefore will not have to worry about being ellimated by a factioned player. In addition to this, as far as continuity is concerned, the Empire would never sit idely by as Jedi roamed the streets with their sabers in hand and using force powers in the streets... any Jedi during this time period is either against the Empire or is one of the Empire's servants... please design the game to reflect this.
thanks
that's alot of ifs...
ok here is my question though.
your just saying a 4-0-0-0 initiate part which i agree with.
however it is much muchmore difficult to get that 800k for the lvl 4 boxes in initiate than it is to get the 1.6 mil for a lvl 4 in both apprentice and guardian.
the time to lvl just to getpadawan is almost equal to the time needed to get to both knight and guardian 4-4-4-4 combined. but it seems that in the new system the time we put into getting padawan willsimply be not truly given credit for since it is such a lower amount of xp.
Forgot 1 point and since I can't edit...
- Lightsaber exp shouldn't be as hard as it is. If you really want to make it a challenge, up the requirements for other skills and lower the requirements for the Lightsaber line. Without a good lightsaber to level with, you're killing every new and low Jedi's leveling ability. We depend on that for our experience, especially when you don't have the Force Power to do Specials. Also, it would be nice if our Saber specials cost HAM instead of Force. Please put that into consideration, because we can't hold our own at low levels against anything because we just don't have the Force Power to do any attacks.
Another thing I was thinking of is that you could possible switch the Force Power gain around. More at lower levels, a little less at higher levels. I think this would fit into continuity, because you still have the same amount of Force use, you just don't know how to quite use it all to the best of your ability. This would also help with leveling. You guys really need to recognize the hard work that most of us put into just becoming a Jedi, and not worry so much about nerfing us.
Actually, that's perfectly fair. Like it or not, those *abilities* were *earned* under the old system. I don't give a flying [edit] what the new requirements are, as long as there isn't basic parity between levels of ability and xp earning capability between the two systems it's a breaker. And, those coming after won't have to do the hologrind... I think they come out significantly ahead.
ArjunThakur wrote:
If you are a 4000 initiate and are arguing this case because you want 4000 in the new Saber tree, that's not fair to anyone that comes after you now is it. Go grind some boxes like the rest of us and you will get an equal reward.
Well since you removed XP from all non offensive skills, guess you can cross this off your list of goals for the revamp then. Because there will be NO diversity if everyone has to pick up saber to advance. You pick up saber, you have to pick up the defense branch to one extent or other. Most Jedi will be two lines of saber and master def. That leave 4 rows out of all the other skills to pick up. Going to place the majority of skills out of reach for everyone, so we'll see cookie cutter Jedi the vast majority of time. Woot.
Keldarin wrote:
One of the goals of the Jedi Revamp was to add some diversity to the Jedi population. Not all Jedi have the same abilities with the Force and we wanted to open up the possibility to create different kinds of Jedi with different strengths. Perhaps one Jedi is a master of lightsaber combat with no equal in that arena but doesn’t have as much ability when it comes to the more mystical Force powers, while another is only mediocre with their lightsaber but has incredible enhancement and healing powers. In order to accommodate this we created an entirely new skill structure with a lot more Force abilities split across a greater number of Force professions. This disparity made the conversion process quite difficult.
Renairdor wrote:
Thanks for the update Keldarin. It was nice to meet and chat to the dev team at the Fan fest.
A question: Why not start with the Initiate tree for the Jedis FIRST skill tree, then split off into specialists? The Jedi canon has the perception that all jedi have some basic skills. Basic saber skills, force run, basic defences, basic self healing etc... the Initiate tree in the old system reflected this very well. You could definitely put 'high skill point cost' skills in this first tree that all Jedi would use, to avoid odd template stacking that the new proposed system provides. Then upon completing the 'Padawan' tree and having a basically trained jedi, they could specialize in the new trees.
I think this would match the canon a lot better, and keep players a lot happier. I think the new system actually isn't very flexible for dabbling in multiple trees of the jedi skills, since the initiate skill point costs are so high.
Please consider... I've tried out 2 jedi templates on test 2, and chatted with 8 other jedi friends on test 2, and we all feel the new system just feels somehow lacking in skill diversity. But we do like the skill tree specializations. That's fun.
Ren
Amen, Dev's please consider this!!!! The biggest feeling that has been in most jedi's guts at first has been that they are losing so many basic skills that you feel so weak in some way. Even though not all jedi are as powerful as others, all have some basic skills in all force disciplines.
The Innitiate profession should still be part of jedi, there needs to be a basis to build off of before specializing in the prof. Right now, you are FORCED to start in Lightsaber. There is no way you are going to ever get enough xp to advance as a jedi by going into Powers (your first skill there costs 200 force points, you have a 200 point pool, you don't have enough points to use it), Enhancements (no force skills), Defense (no force skills)or Healing (heal health 1, would take forever to get a skill box).
If you are going to force people on the advancement anyways, why not just have the Innitiate profession in there to get that basic training. That should be the heavy entry cost into Jedi before you dedicate yourself to the Jedi Discipline areas.
It really seems like there is a step missing in the process. You go from "unlocking" right to studying for advanced force disciplines. This is also part of people feeling like progress is going too slow as well. We're spread to thin with the new system. Either jedi has to be really easy to level in, or you're going to see people who want to be a Force Power/Healing/Enhancement build going in Lightsaber first, then having to go into the other areas and drop out of lightsaber. This shouldn't be how it is.
Consider?
Iggep wrote:
Well since you removed XP from all non offensive skills, guess you can cross this off your list of goals for the revamp then. Because there will be NO diversity if everyone has to pick up saber to advance. You pick up saber, you have to pick up the defense branch to one extent or other. Most Jedi will be two lines of saber and master def. That leave 4 rows out of all the other skills to pick up. Going to place the majority of skills out of reach for everyone, so we'll see cookie cutter Jedi the vast majority of time. Woot.
Keldarin wrote:
One of the goals of the Jedi Revamp was to add some diversity to the Jedi population. Not all Jedi have the same abilities with the Force and we wanted to open up the possibility to create different kinds of Jedi with different strengths. Perhaps one Jedi is a master of lightsaber combat with no equal in that arena but doesn’t have as much ability when it comes to the more mystical Force powers, while another is only mediocre with their lightsaber but has incredible enhancement and healing powers. In order to accommodate this we created an entirely new skill structure with a lot more Force abilities split across a greater number of Force professions. This disparity made the conversion process quite difficult.