Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.

OSULugan
Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:28 pm
#53






ArjunThakur wrote:

Furthermore, I don't think its been made clear that when you choose your Jedi skills, you are going to be able to allocate the rest of your skill points into normal professions.


Master Doctor? Oh yeah!


Think about the time that's going to save you levelling being able to self buff and heal without leaving a planet, and without having to put points into the healing tree right off.









This isn't the first time you've said this. Yes, it's been made clear to us. Master Doctor? Oh no! You realize that it takes less than a day to Master Doctor. Most all of us have had at least SOME experience on how to grind through the Medic professions, and if not, the experience of having to grind out a multitude of professions makes any of the non-Jedi trees trivial tasks in our mind.


Me? I'd prefer to keep my 1-to-1 box conversion, and have to go out and earn the other non-Jedi boxes than to be given lots of Novice level abilites (77 skill points for Novice Medic, I'll remind you) that would take me just a few hours to get myself.


And I'm sorry, the "time that's going to save" me? Uh, sure, if I'm in for 5+ hour grind sessions, and want to save 10-20 minutes to get either a doc friend, or alt., to re-buff me. The only decent thing is the healing, but, well, I can get more than enough healing ability with 0-0-4-0 Medic.


Sorry, how far into Jedi are you again?




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saber1
Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:08 pm
#54

too bad low level jedi cripples professions so badly to aquire a low level jedi box you must surrender one of your highest "normal" skill boxes meaning you actually give up heal 500 for a heal 20 and you loose the ability to place structures which cripples all advanced crafting classes to include all those worthless jedi crafting skills stack on that the pure grinding hell that is jedi and it has the makings of one of the most unfun classes in the universe. you have way too much focus on the saber some alternate trees dont even have an advancement skill at novice level and in the trees such as crafter and healer i didnt see anything that would constitute wonderous powers that normal classes couldnt allready do what can a jedi healer do that a normal healer cant?


many of the trees in initate didnt seem to do anything like luck pursuasion crafting maby you need a text line to tell us when something happens so we know something happened


sacrificing your master level profession before your competant in your jedi skills is unacceptable its one thing to grind jedi skills for a few hours a daywhile you do your doctoring its quite another to be crippled in the mean time.


Scuddbacca
Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:12 pm
#55

Since you didn't take the time to fully explain what we can expect from the conversion, please give us an example of how many boxes a current Jedi Padawan can expect to have in the new system.
ParnellOfBria
Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:20 pm
#56








Keldarin wrote:


All converted Jedi automatically get to choose 6 of the Force Sensitive skill lines (24 skills boxes) and none of those skills are counted in the conversion process.




This is good news! I wish you would have given me this answerwhen i asked at"The path of the jedi" meetingthough, it would have saved me 50 dollars at the bar downstairs a half hour after that.




-----------------------------------------------

I will be playing DDO and BF2:SF.
/salute Bria and so long.
Scuddbacca
Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:24 pm
#57

Can you also confirm that the current Jedi Knight "Trial" is just a joke? It would be pretty sad if that is actually what gets pushed to live. Thanks.
KyleKnox
Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:31 pm
#58






Keldarin wrote:



The conversion process is intended to translate the effort of gaining Jedi skills from the old system to the new system. A Jedi that has just begun under the old system will convert over to a Jedi which has just begun in the new system, while a Jedi who reached the pinnacle of their skill advancement would be able to take the maximum amount of skills under the new system. The way the skills translate between those two extremes is based on the amount of effort that was required to get there. I’m sure everyone knows that certain Jedi skill boxes are much, much easier to gain than others. We wanted to make sure that this was correctly accounted for during the conversion.


The conversion process assigns an effort value to every single old Jedi skill and uses the sum of that effort to determine the number of new Jedi skills that can be taken. This seemed the most fair and was easily scalable as we continued to tweak and balance the exact skill costs and the exact number of skills that will be able to be earned under the new system.


So as the system has evolved, it turns out that the conversion is not one skill box to one skill box, but it should be the most fair as far as rewarding effort spent in advancing your Jedi. The conversion calculations are only used to determine the exact number of skill points that can be spent on the new Force Discipline skills. All converted Jedi automatically get to choose 6 of the Force Sensitive skill lines (24 skills boxes) and none of those skills are counted in the conversion process.


Finally I’d like to stress that all of this is still in testing on TC2 and is still being actively tweaked and balanced. I urge all players with a Jedi on TC2 to log in and put the new Jedi system through it’s paces and post your feedback. We are listening, honest. We all want Jedi to be as incredible as it can possibly be.





OK - maybe you just arent familiar enough with the game to know this. We have THREE trees of skills now. Your whizbang nerfversion system caps us at 2.5. EVERY JEDI LOSES SKILLS and boxes. So let's recalculate shall we, with a new end value for the conversion of THREE trees. NOT 2.5




Dyvim Storm - Eclipse
PrePatch9 4444 Guardian
Force Master
Chianti
Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:58 pm
#59

The old system of lightsabers at least meant we had a method of repairing our saber for longer use.


The current implementation of sabers is even worse. Granted, the saber itself doesn't decay (honest... who cares they require such little resources to make), but the components we do care about decay. Worse yet, those components CANNOT BE REPAIRED. I think crystal and pearl decay need to be reduced by more than 80% to compensate for the fact that we cannot repair them.


Crystal/Pearl Tuning:


Why can't you tie crystal tuning into saber experimentation? When tuning a crystal, simply bring up the experimentationscreenas if the crystal were just crafted. Allow users to then experiment on min/max damage of a crystal or pearl, ham reduction, speed reduction, and force reduction. When they are done they click 'Tune' and the crystal is deposited into their inventory just like any other crafted item. I cant imagine how this could be more than a days work considering all the subsystems required are already coded.


The current tuning system is simply like opening a magic box and hoping for the best. Really makes no sense and kills immersion. My suggested system would allow for more customization and a more personal experience.



KyleKnox
Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:00 pm
#60

yeah - and explain to me how I can level up the polearm tree ONLY using a 1Hander....lol - its all jedi xp, right? Makes perfect sense....lol



At least in the exsiting system, YOU ACTUALLY had to use a polearm saber ot level it...lol





Dyvim Storm - Eclipse
PrePatch9 4444 Guardian
Force Master
KyleKnox
Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:10 pm
#61






ArjunThakur wrote:





Nono_LO wrote:

But people complains because the very beginning is the hardest...


I want to have the time in the old system to prove myself (level up) before the patch 9 kicks in for me, low initiate, but still powerfull.


In the new conversion, I won t be able to holdmy saber as I used to.


I won t have the offensive power I used too.



The conversion has to be generous. Because the beginning IS the hardest, and walking throught initiate is the longest Jedi grind.








I don't think that's a fair argument. The beginning of any profession is the hardest, ever do TKA and try to get the 4th brawler box or TKA Novice....ugh.


This is definately a much more fair process than just a 1:1 conversion, in fact if they had stuck with the 1:1 the complaints against that would have been much more valid.


Imagine being a Dark Jedi Apprentice and just having ground out the Padawan and Apprentice boxes, that's 4.7 million Jedi XP in just 2 boxes.........and you only get 2 boxes to convert? That would be atrocious.


It has to be a weighted system, or what happens is all the 4000 intiates who spent all of 2 hours levelling get comparatively the same reward as the people that spent countless hours and millions upon millions in pearls and crystals.


Skills are being converted based on the effort level required, isn't this what we were asking for? 1:1 conversion is completely unfair, and this system, which might not give Jedi a 1:1 conversion Jedi Power-wise, is going to convert based on the effort we put in.


If you are a 4000 initiate and are arguing this case because you want 4000 in the new Saber tree, that's not fair to anyone that comes after you now is it. Go grind some boxes like the rest of us and you will get an equal reward.









No Arjun - what is COMPLETELY UNFAIR is that we are losing skills and now capped at 2.5 trees. Box for Box would be WONDERFULLY FAIR. Why? Because it would insure a similiar amount of skills and a similiar level of power. Or if you want a weighted system, then FINE, just let the current total number of boxes, 54 = 54 NEW boxes INSTEAD OF the 45 we are stuck with. It would be soooo easy to do this.



Then ONLY measure for a successful conversion is strenght/skills you have now versus what we will have after nerfversion. Right now EVERY jedi si getting screwed. Explain to me how this is fair? Because we are all getting the shaft?



Good job towing the party line. Too bad you are screwing over every jedi to do it.




Dyvim Storm - Eclipse
PrePatch9 4444 Guardian
Force Master
KyleKnox
Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:13 pm
#62




Dyvim Storm - Eclipse
PrePatch9 4444 Guardian
Force Master
KyleKnox
Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:35 pm
#63






ArjunThakur wrote:




I don't think that's a fair argument. The beginning of any profession is the hardest, ever do TKA and try to get the 4th brawler box or TKA Novice....ugh.



This is definately a much more fair process than just a 1:1 conversion, in fact if they had stuck with the 1:1 the complaints against that would have been much more valid.


Imagine being a Dark Jedi Apprentice and just having ground out the Padawan and Apprentice boxes, that's 4.7 million Jedi XP in just 2 boxes.........and you only get 2 boxes to convert? That would be atrocious.


It has to be a weighted system, or what happens is all the 4000 intiates who spent all of 2 hours levelling get comparatively the same reward as the people that spent countless hours and millions upon millions in pearls and crystals.


Skills are being converted based on the effort level required, isn't this what we were asking for? 1:1 conversion is completely unfair, and this system, which might not give Jedi a 1:1 conversion Jedi Power-wise, is going to convert based on the effort we put in.


If you are a 4000 initiate and are arguing this case because you want 4000 in the new Saber tree, that's not fair to anyone that comes after you now is it. Go grind some boxes like the rest of us and you will get an equal reward.







Sorry no edit button.



Really cant believe you posted this Arjun. Equal reward? All those early jedi that could craft grind and level with out a tef...remember them. They changed it. Was that fair to the jedi, like me, that came after them? Were their skills taken away? NO, because they earned those skills in the system at that time.


Now lets fast forward. We have jedi now that have earned skills. Here comes a conversion. JEDI should keep their skills. THEY EARNED THEM IN THE EXISTING SYSTEM. No conversion should take any number of skills from ANYONE. So spare me the "not fair for those behind you" argument. That has never been valid in the past because it takes skills away that players/PAYING CUSTOMERS have earned. They want to move the goal line - fine - but you cant move it on people after they've already ran over it......





Dyvim Storm - Eclipse
PrePatch9 4444 Guardian
Force Master
Seomon
Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:02 pm
#64

I'm hoping the DEVs wake up and don't push this Live the 22nd. Screw the date and worry about fixing ourclass.



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oiraona
Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:03 pm
#65

Thanks for the chance to voice my opinion


Like people have been trying to explain. It's the beginning current grind that is the hardest. The first tree.

The first 800k box I filled took me 32 hours to grind. Were is the amount of time we spent being taken into consideration is the question. in the current system there is a sweet spot after your first AOE where the xp begins to get eaiser to gain.


In the current conversion, this silly first tree that took me4 months to fill because I am not a power gammer per say, means nothing. Thats my issue.

The first tree isn't being converted according to personal Jedi diffculty. Boxes gained with low personal Jedi difficulty should be worth more than a box with an equal amount of xp but higher personal Jedi difficulty.


We all know how much eaiser it is to grind the top two trees, than it is the first tree. In fact I tell new Jedi, if you can make it through the first completetree it's all down hill after that.

Please Please take a look at this issue.



W Gweralle Dalin W
Master Doctor &
Founding member of BABE
force senstive

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