Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.

ArjunThakur
Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:46 pm
#27




ProphecyTeller wrote:




Keldarin wrote:


All Jedi must have the 6 lines of Force Sensitive skills therefore these are not counted against the "effort". Jedi advancement is considered to begin at the first Force Discipline box.






Does the 6 lines (24 skill points) still take away from the total 250?

Or do we have 250 skill to spend after the 6 lines are complete?

TC2 is currently listed as 226 to spend. It takes away the 24 initial points.

I believe that was the origonal question.


Ihcas

Sunrunner

COE

4-4-4-4 Guardian





Yes you have to spend 24 points on FS skills, everyone has to.



-=BLUE GLOWIE=-
RedDragon133
Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:48 pm
#28
Yes, those 24 skillpoints go from the 250 total.

plan your templates with 226 points. no kidding.
Dreamchant
Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:56 pm
#29

LOL...


Keldarin...


When we spoke at Fan Fest about the overall power of a PVE Padawan, I understood (although not completely areed with) you. Now as more information about the Knight trials have surfaced.. ie.... you have to kill mobs such as Peko Peko albatross, Death Watch Overlord etc to complete the trials.... it's almost comical that you consider this to be "fun" . I thought you guys had figured out by now that requiring a random spawn, extremely hard to kill mob was not only hard but virtually impossible. I've been playing this game, for what seems like an eternity... and I have yet to see a full suit of RIS on someone.... so now not only do I have to grind for several months to even get a shot at being a Knight... I have to try and find and kill (finding being the hardest part) these uber mobs in order to even enter the Ranking system....


Good luck with that... I think I'll pass... and I would bet that anyone else with a life outside this game will agree with me....






Dreamchant.....

Official Kettemoor Jedi Mistress
Champion of the N00b's
Unfortunate Wife of Jey
Nono_LO
Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:57 pm
#30

To arjun:


I have my main as a master doctor so I don t have any problem to get buff.


And I m currently Initiate 4133, grinding all I can as we even speak. Now I want to be able to grind in the same condition as I can now, but I won t , at least I can t in the TC2, and small adjustemnt won t make a difference.


It will still take overall a longer time to grind.


So when you say I should grind, yeah I do, but I complain that I have no choice after the 22nd. Leave me more time to achieve guardian 4444 before the system kicks in and I will find it fair.

DjinnNojedi
Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:02 pm
#31




Keldarin wrote:



The conversion process is intended to translate the effort of gaining Jedi skills from the old system to the new system.





This means that you cannot use an XP for XP conversion for the reason below:

Initiate xp per hour = 40K, Apprentice XP per hour = 100k, Guardian XP per hour = 200K

Even tho Jedi XP is alot lower for initiate skill box's, this is more than made up for by the fact that the overall XP possible to gain is alot lower,making the time and effortrequired getting padawan equal to or above that of Apprentice and Guardian.

In a fair conversion this must be taken into to consideration.

Time = effort.
Chianti
Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:04 pm
#32

Keldarin,


I want to congratulate you guys on all the amazing work you've done. Respectfully though, I think you guys are very confused about your own revamp. Creating diversity among jedi is a wonderful thing... I agree. However, what you failed to account for is the fact that ultimately there will be little to no diversity. You see, combat is essential to leveling. In fact its the only method of leveling. Additionally, pvp is required to rank up in the FRS. With that in mind, all jedi who plan to participate in the FRS are REQUIRED to take up heavily combat capable templates.


Since FRS jedi will be required to combat to gain more power, you will see very little to no diversity in templates. This is highly unfortunate since a non combat support template such as master healer/master defender/something enhancer could have done wonders for a group. However, that template cant do wonders as a jedi in the FRS. In fact, that just has no method of ever changing his/her template agagin since they have no combat skills.


There are multiple solutions to this. The one I like the most is drastically reducing skill point requirements to master lightsaber (or dabble). That way, all jedi will have ENOUGH combat capability to level and participate in the FRS effectively, but also enough skill points left over to REALLY create a diversity among templates in the community.


Overall the revamp is a wonderful thing. Naturally I worry about balance issues right now, but I'm hopeful you'll address them before live. Force weaken/force choke stacking arent fed back using force feedback, and dont seem to be resisted by force shield. Unfortunately that also means total death without a chance to heal I'm hoping you'll see this at the dev sponsored pvp thing on the 9th.


Finally, I hope to god robes have a significant resistance to poison and disease ultimately leading to immunity for council members and the leader. If not, a single combat medic will be able to defeat the entire jedi council single handedly (dont assume all jedi will have healing powers) with another brawler keeping a warcry and intimidate macro going. Covert members of the opposite faction can use warcry and intimidate on a jedi without penalty or tef.
Nono_LO
Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:06 pm
#33

And your argument as only being an apprentice ?


I hope I can make it to padawan, if I do I will try to make it to apprentice too. The xp will be converted too and if I get apprentice, in one day I will kick 4100 apprentice. When you achieve apprentice, you have much more weapon to grind.


I can t believe your saying that. ANd box to box, even if you are just (I would love to be just) an apprentice, you get 17 boxes, you can master a Jedi profession with that, that s 15 million Jedi xp. When you are just initiate 4444. you get to be 4443 in the new system, and that s 4.8 million away from master, exactly the amount you posted, isn't it?


Yes, low initiate would get a boost, but not SUCH a boost. I even asked thunderHeart about it (this might be have ringed a bell, that s it would actually give a boost, lol). Now they take it back. But apprentice won t get raped from their box, you can say that either.


Renairdor
Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:07 pm
#34

Thanks for the update Keldarin. It was nice to meet and chat to the dev team at the Fan fest.


A question: Why not start with the Initiate tree for the Jedis FIRST skill tree, then split off into specialists? The Jedi canon has the perception that all jedi have some basic skills. Basic saber skills, force run, basic defences, basic self healing etc... the Initiate tree in the old system reflected this very well. You could definitely put 'high skill point cost' skills in this first tree that all Jedi would use, to avoid odd template stacking that the new proposed system provides. Then upon completing the 'Padawan' tree and having a basically trained jedi, they could specialize in the new trees.


I think this would match the canon a lot better, and keep players a lot happier. I think the new system actually isn't very flexible for dabbling in multiple trees of the jedi skills, since the initiate skill point costs are so high.


Please consider... I've tried out 2 jedi templates on test 2, and chatted with 8 other jedi friends on test 2, and we all feel the new system just feels somehow lacking in skill diversity. But we do like the skill tree specializations. That's fun.


Ren

Fetch2
Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:10 pm
#35




Keldarin wrote:



Finally I’d like to stress that all of this is still in testing on TC2 and is still being actively tweaked and balanced. I urge all players with a Jedi on TC2 to log in and put the new Jedi system through it’s paces and post your feedback. We are listening, honest. We all want Jedi to be as incredible as it can possibly be.






As much as I'd like to do this, I did not convert properly. I was allowed to allocate the FS boxes and that was it. I have a jedi on live yet cant train any boxes on TC2.


I didnt even get the proper items in my pack to even think about creating a lightsaber.


It seems the lucky and few rolled properly and the rest of us are sitting on the sidelines hoping for another chance to play.
ArkonPhoenix
Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:12 pm
#36

Dear DEVS,


All I ask here is that anyone who is now silent, be allowed to know what the last profession is to master so there work for hologrinding can be shown for somehting as the new system will have a learning curve that is unfair to long time and dedicated players.






I just hit a bunch of buttons and hope everything works out.

Click here for "Arkon’s Ideas and Suggestions for SWG".
Seomon
Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:12 pm
#37

There'sa few things I don't like about the Jedi Revamp.



  1. We should all have a Battle Fatigue heal and wound heal abilities. Nothing big, we just can't go to towns to get healed.

  2. Force Run should be a free skill.

  3. Why on earth do you think it would be fun for us to kill uber mobs to get to the ranking system? That really, really, REALLY sucks.



§eomon/§eo §nowlock

Large House-o-Crap located at 1175 -6143 outside the Agro Outpost on Dant

Grey Haven

Forever in remembrance of Tirza. May she rest in peace.

Nono_LO
Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:13 pm
#38


Keldarin wrote:



Finally I’d like to stress that all of this is still in testing on TC2 and is still being actively tweaked and balanced. I urge all players with a Jedi on TC2 to log in and put the new Jedi system through it’s paces and post your feedback. We are listening, honest. We all want Jedi to be as incredible as it can possibly be.





For me, I m sorry but my correspondent just told me to grind more, so can t test TC2.

I advise also all none Guardian 4444 to grind now, as the grind will be harder later, with weapon xp gone and lightsaber tree requirement grounding all new comers.


Better have has much as possible before the 22nd, even Arjun tell so.

Bye Bye.
Renairdor
Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:13 pm
#39




ArjunThakur wrote:


I don't think that's a fair argument. The beginning of any profession is the hardest, ever do TKA and try to get the 4th brawler box or TKA Novice....ugh.


This is definately a much more fair process than just a 1:1 conversion, in fact if they had stuck with the 1:1 the complaints against that would have been much more valid.


Imagine being a Dark Jedi Apprentice and just having ground out the Padawan and Apprentice boxes, that's 4.7 million Jedi XP in just 2 boxes.........and you only get 2 boxes to convert? That would be atrocious.


It has to be a weighted system, or what happens is all the 4000 intiates who spent all of 2 hours levelling get comparatively the same reward as the people that spent countless hours and millions upon millions in pearls and crystals.


Skills are being converted based on the effort level required, isn't this what we were asking for? 1:1 conversion is completely unfair, and this system, which might not give Jedi a 1:1 conversion Jedi Power-wise, is going to convert based on the effort we put in.


If you are a 4000 initiate and are arguing this case because you want 4000 in the new Saber tree, that's not fair to anyone that comes after you now is it. Go grind some boxes like the rest of us and you will get an equal reward.






Frankly, I think the conversion process should be something along the lines of totalling up all jedi xp, dividing this by the number of skill points. Divide the lightsaber xp boxes by 10 and convert to 'Jedi XP' for the appropriate value (never mind you get jedi xp AND saber xp during saber levelling, the amount is still very low...). Then look at the skill boxes earned by jedi, and how much jedi xp they are worth.


The oddity of the whole conversion system is the lower boxes in the new system are a small amount of XP, but a high number of skill points. So anyone who converts over is going to want to maximize one tree- likely the Lightsaber tree at least 4/0/0/4 (or something similar) otherwise XP will be VERY hard to come by.


I really feel for the new Padawans who will take literally hours and hours for their first jedi XP boxes. Though at least now they can template with other professions, I just don't see a lot of players grinding to the high levels of Jedi skills. The new proposed Jedi seem pretty 'weak' overall to the old system. I'd much rather take the old Guardians with some defences, lightsabers as LS damage and I'm actually happier with those old jedi more so then the new...


Ren





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