Development Cycle Archive

I didn't know you guys had put this tweak in until I checked the forum now, but I did notice I was missing a HELL of a lot earlier today and didn't know why until now. I can't post hard figures since I didn't know I'd need them, but here's my observations....

The session started out with a few of us heading to the Geonosian Cave to get the needed Corvette ticket mission, and I arrived first and decided to have a peek inside on my own. This is where I first noticed my accuracy failing - mainly against Alert Droidekas and the Enhanced Kwi. I'd be sometimes missing 3-4 times *in a row*, as well as seeing their defense firing secondary defenses a lot more than normal. I clearly remember getting the Droid's HAM down to almost 0 and needing 5-6 hits to finish it off, and I put it down to bad luck.

Later on the Corvette, mainly against Novas and SBDs I noticed similar again - a lot of misses and an awful lot of counterattacks etc, making it really obvious something was wrong. I even remember trying to get closer/back-off to get my accuracy figure as high as possible, but I wasn't even thinking something was wrong heh.

Couldn't really judge their impact on me, since those type of NPC pack a fair punch anyway. But.. I'm Master Lightsaber, so expected high block/toughness. At one point (again I put it down to bad luck, but maybe related) I was fighting 4 or 5 Novas and taking steady damage (since there was a few of us attacking it seemed to be spread pretty even between us), when all of a sudden I lost roughly 2k's worth of HAM in 1 second of combat. We weren't lagging, and I even have it recorded on video - for some reason I just seemed to get hit by everything we were fighting at once, and none of them missing.

So it seems to have these weird patches where you will either constantly miss, or be constantly hit. Hard to really describe without figures I know, but thats just how it "felt".

---

Thunderheart wrote:

---

OdiousEncounter wrote:

I suppose you can't tell us whether this would mean that there's basically a hard minimumand hard maximum chance, as opposed to some sort of logarithmic thingy that although not hard-capped, will never quite reach 100 or 0? Obviously you couldn't tell us the specific numbers if it was a hard cap, though.

---

I was talking with one of the developers about this and he added, "The best written description I can think of on the change to combat could be described as the basic “to hit” combat works like this"

• The Attacker rolls a “to hit” number, the defender rolls a “to defend” roll.


• These numbers get compared, if the attacker is higher, they hit, if the defender is higher, they miss.

The problem is that through multiple stacking of defense skills mods, tapes, foods, abilities, etc. The defender could get into a state where their Minimum roll number, would be higher than the Maximum roll possible by an attacker, and this makes them impossible to hit. Conversely, the attacker through this same method could get into a state where the Minimum attack roll was higher than the Maximum defense roll, making it so they never missed.

The change drops the Minimum roll (for both defense and to hit) so that you can never have a minimum number so high that you get into an “always hits” or “always be missed” state.

---

In PnP DnD this was fixed rather simply by having the lowest possible random number (usually a 1 on a D20) always miss while the maximum possible random number (usually a 20 on a D20) always hit. I don't know if something like that would be helpful in your system, but you could fix the always hit/miss states without altering the tables for how often you hit or missed based on modifiers. TKAs built well would still hit a lot (but not all the time) and defenders would still get a lot of misses (but not all the time). If indeed that is what the design was going for.

---

Thunderheart wrote:

---

OdiousEncounter wrote:

I suppose you can't tell us whether this would mean that there's basically a hard minimumand hard maximum chance, as opposed to some sort of logarithmic thingy that although not hard-capped, will never quite reach 100 or 0? Obviously you couldn't tell us the specific numbers if it was a hard cap, though.

---

I was talking with one of the developers about this and he added, "The best written description I can think of on the change to combat could be described as the basic “to hit” combat works like this"

• The Attacker rolls a “to hit” number, the defender rolls a “to defend” roll.


• These numbers get compared, if the attacker is higher, they hit, if the defender is higher, they miss.

The problem is that through multiple stacking of defense skills mods, tapes, foods, abilities, etc. The defender could get into a state where their Minimum roll number, would be higher than the Maximum roll possible by an attacker, and this makes them impossible to hit. Conversely, the attacker through this same method could get into a state where the Minimum attack roll was higher than the Maximum defense roll, making it so they never missed.

The change drops the Minimum roll (for both defense and to hit) so that you can never have a minimum number so high that you get into an “always hits” or “always be missed” state.

---

You need to look at speed as well TH. I noticed this with Carbine and BH, one of the reasons carbine is so painful compared to other professions. This is probably more useful for the next combat balance but would change a lot of things.

http://killyourpc.org/swg/speedguide.html

Basically after you hit a certain a speed of about 100 all your specials reduce down to about 1 second. So specials that were supposed to be slow nowstart to come of their own becauseyou can spam them every second. That is also probably why Havla only works if it is over 100pushing combat medics to be able to poison every second because they are making the number.

A way to fix it is instead of a minimum speed of 1 each special has a minimum speed.At least that would be my firstidea. Of course the combat classes need to be defined better as well. If this happens abovethe speed ofJedi swings will be find compared to what the other combat classesas well.

That might also explain why youguys don't want the Jedi having a speed of 100 or so. At that point they hit the 1 mark and all their specialsno matter the delay of the saber hit 1 second.Very interesting, and glad you are seeing what's going on!

---

Thunderheart wrote:

---

---

Axe_Grinder wrote:

Jedi Knight

0/0/4/4 Saber

4/2/0/4 Healing

0/0/0/4 Defense

3/4/0/4 Enhance

Missing 25% against a Master Teras Kasi / Master Fencer - getting hit 90% of the time.

This is unacceptable. Explain to me how a light saber can miss so often against something vulnerable. Even if he blocks he should take damage. I'm using a freaking weapon that can cut through blast doors for gods sake.

A Jedi Knight should NEVER miss against a non-jedi. Change the roll values to reflect this.

---

Explain to me how I can survive a hit from a blaster at point blank range wearing nothing but hot pants and we are talking about lightsaber blocking.

Won't even deign the "jedi knight should never miss" with an answer.

If you only want to deal with Jedis, go play Jedi academy.

Message Edited by ochad on 06-24-2004 09:03 AM