Development Cycle Archive

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Dubolom wrote:

Heh, they think that by allowing every Joe Shmoe hunt Jedis they keep true to the cannon and "keep Jedi population under control".

They just don't realize that Jedis are now too powerful, too numerous, and in the end they just DON'T DIE. They just clone in the nearsest cloning center if someone manages to deathblow them (probably another jedi as no regular profession can come close in one-on-one fight).

There is NO population control. Period.

Sad, very sad.

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You dont have a Jedi do you???? You cant have cause it really sounds as if you know little or nothing about their Power.

Now i am not Ranked (Jedi Knight) and trust me i die very easily to any PvP template out there...Very easy indeed.

Now when i am done grinding ( still need to kill some 100k Rancors or somesuch) but before i become ranked...I guess (and hope) that ANY PvP player cant take me a lone...But if you knew just a littlebit about the things you talk.....you would know that GTEF is still working and that Even High Level Jedi have little not o say NO defence VS Melee.

Now of course a High level Jedi is strong...but remember he also used lots and lots and lots of time leveling....not a few hours like the common TKM. Enven so its not like they can kill scores of Players just as they Please...A Single CM will still be devastating to them.

However you do have one thing right.....Controling the Jedi Population is only doable by getting people to quit...I wont loose my Jedi when he die...i will just clone.....And when i hit 1 million negative xp cause i am griefed by all the Jedi Haters....i will most likely cancel my account....and with my Jedi goes my Master Chef and my Alt Master Doc Master Riffleman....

Please next time try to only talk about things if you really know something about them...

And stop this foolish Jedis are unbeateble Gods, they are not, not even close (The High ranked Jedi Knight might be powerfull....but getting there aint easy and i doubt i will ever find out how powerfull with all the soon to come Investigation 3 templates out there)

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Nifo wrote:

The Value of a Master Bounty Hunter is being all but erased with this patch,

Our droid skills beyone invest 3 serve no purpose in hunting Jedi, as we will just get a waypoint to the last place they loaded to just like anyone else, tracking, accuracy and speed give us no real benefit.

Our Inventory of varied weaponry only hurts us, as to use our proffession to its intended extent we have to wait 3 seconds after we swap our weapons, which to a MBH who know to use their skills may happen very often. This could easily be fixed without allowing for exploitation by: Have a timer that prevents you from switching weapons for a certain time AFTER you switch your weapons, or allow our speed modifiers to affect weapon swap time. I always envisioned a BH as a western desperado who empties his rifle, dropping it as his enemies close in, whipping out his pistols for the close quarters combat.

Our Pistol skills are now more easily accessible by Master Pistoleers, with the exception of fast blast

Our Carbine skills are now more easily accessible by Master Carbiniers, with the exception of sprayshot

Our LLC skills are now more easily accessible to anyone who wants to be able to clear out a group of NPCs

Our Investigation "skills" are now more easily accessible by anyone who has the hankering to hunt jedi.

Each one of these skills is more powerful in conjunction with a set of skills in the game other than the set that makes up Master Bounty Hunter, which before made MBH a unique proffession, whereas now, it is more of a dabbling pond. I sincerly hope that with the combat rebalance Bounty Hunters can be returned to their previous requirements of dedication. I have played as a Bounty Hunter for almost a year now, and it saddens me to see my proffession opened up for the world to use.

A Master Bounty Hunter who actually learned the Bounty Hunter Proffession....

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/amen

Farewell to the Master Bounty Hunter. We hardly knew ye.

And please welcome the Investigation III dabblers. Now Combat Medics, TKAs, Commandos, etc. will be more powerful bounty hunters than the Bounty Hunter profession itself.

The only way to correct this issue and save Master Bounty Hunter as a viable profession is to move Jedi (and other future player bounties) to the Master box instead of Investigation III. Only then will MBH remain desirable.

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Nifo wrote:

The Value of a Master Bounty Hunter is being all but erased with this patch,

Our Pistol skills are now more easily accessible by Master Pistoleers, with the exception of fast blast

Our Carbine skills are now more easily accessible by Master Carbiniers, with the exception of sprayshot

Our LLC skills are now more easily accessible to anyone who wants to be able to clear out a group of NPCs

Our Investigation "skills" are now more easily accessible by anyone who has the hankering to hunt jedi.

Each one of these skills is more powerful in conjunction with a set of skills in the game other than the set that makes up Master Bounty Hunter, which before made MBH a unique proffession, whereas now, it is more of a dabbling pond. I sincerly hope that with the combat rebalance Bounty Hunters can be returned to their previous requirements of dedication. I have played asa Bounty Hunter for almost a year now, and it saddens me to see my proffession opened up for the world to use.

A Master Bounty Hunter who actually learned the Bounty Hunter Proffession....

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As a TWO time former MBH, this saddens me as well. I actually bought SWG for the BH professionthe week it launched last summer(assuming then it was just for NPC content and not the player bounties).I totally agree that "player bounties / Jedi bounties"need to be reserved ONLY for Master Bounty Hunters.

I'm still looking forward to the day when this profession means something again so I can master it a 3rd and hopefully final time.

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Gerath wrote:

[quote]

Profession: Bounty Hunters

Bounty Hunter only requires Exploration IV now instead of Master Scout.[/quote]

Good, I'm all for this.

People, anyone can hunt bounties. Only a few are dedicated enough to be MASTERS at this profession. If you want to discriminate between dabblers, and those who are dedicated, then just look for the Master Bounty Hunter title.

Funny, I don't recall the professions as Bounty Fencer, and Bounty Carbineer, so on and so forth?

Personally, I've only started to be a Bounty Hunter. I plan to Master the class, and use my extended pool of additional points to simply make me more dangerous as a Bounty Hunter.

We should be dangerous as it is...You have not been in our shoes for a year. So don't assume you feel our pain bro.

Will other people get "Hunt the Jedi" bounties? Sure they will. Is that so bad? No, I don't think so. Bounty hunters include a wide range of skill types, and skill levels, for that matter. Each prefers different tactics, and different weapons. I think this change will help encourage some diversity in the ranks of the bounty hunting players. Instead of knowing what that bounty hunter is going to utilize against you, now you have to be more cautions. Or, at least, you WOULD be if players could place bounties on other players. On that subject, I know of quite a few spammers doing tumbling grind that would have death marks FAST...sooo...annoying...

Imagine waiting a year for something exclusive to your profession, something that should have been working SINCE LAUNCH,only to have it given to everyone in the game.

Anyways, remember, EVERYBODY in game pays to play, not just Bounty Hunters. The game cannot be designed solely for one group.

Ever heard of Jedi?

On that note, it does appear that too much dev effort has been leaning towards the Jedi players. Using the logic I stated above, this would lead to the appearance that the game is being designed for one group of players (the Jedi). However, this may also simply be an artifact of the fact that in order to start changing things, you have to start somewhere. Since The Force (and by extention all things Jedi) are what set Star Wars apart from other Sci Fi, it seems like a logical place to start to me.

OK...np here

I do feel that the design of Jedi in combat has several flaws. They can block flame throwers and rockets, for one. You would think that a light saber really wouldn't help with that, the flames would go around, and the rocket would just explode when you hit it with your lightsaber. Dodge should be used to avoid this. Perhaps stealth, to just avoid drawing attention to yourself.

Also, Jedi power vs combat types seems a bit reversed. Jedi have always been the strongest of the Melee fighters. If you want to go REALLY realistic, this is because a lightsaber can be used to destroy whatever weapon is used against you with a simple parry (one of the most basic moves in actual melee combat). I know this isn't really feasable in this kind of game (imagine lopping the limbs off of a TKA that comes after you), but Jedi should be very powerful in melee. Perhaps a "Disarm" ability for the Jedi, for use in melee range, that is only usable with your lightsaber? Would basically delay the next action of your target, or perhaps you can be more creative in it's design.

Realism has gone out the window...Have you heard? Like you I wish that a thought went behind their actions?

Finally, I think Jedi defense vs ranged attacks is a bit overboard. Jedi use their superior speed to dodge, and move up INTO melee. This is because, even with their parrying of ranged attacks, they are still at a disadvantage in ranged combat. This also leads to the lure of the dark side, through ranged attacks (force choke and force lightning, anyone?). Now, I'm not saying all Jedi should be owned by ranged combat. A Jedi Master is a powerful and terrible force to witness in combat. They should be able to blockalmost everything. Since the nature of the ranking system limits the number of Jedi of this potency that can exist at any time by it's nature, I don't have a problem with it. Just watch Episode II. Several Jedi are taken down by ranged attacks. Heck, even Jango Fett takes one out in VERY SHORT ORDER. However, the Jedi Masters (Mace Windu, for instance) are not really touched. Why? Well, I think because Jango was just that much better than the Jedi he took down with his pistol, but when he went up against Master Windu, he encountered a Jedi which was simply that much more powerful than Jango in combat.

So, the long and the short of this final point: Blocking of incoming ranged attacks needs to be seriously offset by the shooter's attack bonus. If the person with the gun is good with their gun, then a Jedi would need to be seriously high rank to reliablyblock attacks from them. A Padawan Jedi should be decimated by ranged attacks from someone who is marginally skilled. A Jedi Master should be able to wade through massive ammounts of fire, with little to fear, except perhaps from an EXCEPTIONALLY skilled shooter (were talking someone who really KNOWS their weapon). This then further means that a Jedi needs to close to melee range as fast as possible, the combat range a Jedi belongs at.

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My comments in green/orange:

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Gerath wrote:

On that note, it does appear that too much dev effort has been leaning towards the Jedi players. Using the logic I stated above, this would lead to the appearance that the game is being designed for one group of players (the Jedi). However, this may also simply be an artifact of the fact that in order to start changing things, you have to start somewhere. Since The Force (and by extention all things Jedi) are what set Star Wars apart from other Sci Fi, it seems like a logical place to start to me.

I can't find the post now but I remember Thunderheart or another dev (maybe JustG)making a comment about "why" Jedi were getting revamped at this time instead of the masses of other players. They recognized that this game was being utterly ruined with the "holo-grinding" and needed to make it a priority to bring that to an immediate hault to save the entire game for the majority. In designingthe new path to unlock Jedi and kill holo-grinding, they needed to change the entire Jedi profession since it is now more of an adaptive transition in becoming a Jedi vs the old"unlock and create Jedi" design. So the Jedi profession was NOT prioritized for revamp due to a small percent of "whiners getting their way". The Jedi profession was dragged into the redesign of the overall path of becoming a Jedi to STOP the holo-grinding that was killing this game.

MOST of the current Jedi are disapointed that the Jedi profession was addressed ahead of BHs, Pistoleers, Carbiners, Pikemen, etc., because it drew even more anti-Jedi sentiment. MOST of us still enjoy quality time with our main characters, and it is only a small percentage of village idiots who have given the Jedi profession a bad name from their behavior (no different than the small percentage ofvillage idiots of other professions).

I do feel that the design of Jedi in combat has several flaws. They can block flame throwers and rockets, for one. You would think that a light saber really wouldn't help with that, the flames would go around, and the rocket would just explode when you hit it with your lightsaber. Dodge should be used to avoid this. Perhaps stealth, to just avoid drawing attention to yourself.

Since in a MMOG environment it is impossible for the player behind the keyboard of a Jedi Avatar to actually predict the future and provide an in-game Jedi reflex to another player's avatar using various attacks, it makes sense that the Jedi can block the attacks you describe. It may not exactly be done with the lightsaber as you suggest, but more likely from use of a "force push" or shield as it would be applied in films or books. There are numerous examples in books and film scenes where Jedi deflect a variety of attacks (flame throwers, rockets, etc) using the force.

Also, Jedi power vs combat types seems a bit reversed. Jedi have always been the strongest of the Melee fighters. If you want to go REALLY realistic, this is because a lightsaber can be used to destroy whatever weapon is used against you with a simple parry (one of the most basic moves in actual melee combat). I know this isn't really feasable in this kind of game (imagine lopping the limbs off of a TKA that comes after you), but Jedi should be very powerful in melee. Perhaps a "Disarm" ability for the Jedi, for use in melee range, that is only usable with your lightsaber? Would basically delay the next action of your target, or perhaps you can be more creative in it's design.

Finally, I think Jedi defense vs ranged attacks is a bit overboard. Jedi use their superior speed to dodge, and move up INTO melee.

Regarding melee, I totally agree. Our limitation of melee combat seems unusual given the physical ability of the engery in a lightsaber being able to cut through material used by melee fighters (swords, pikes, sticks, arms, legs, etc). On the other hand, Jedi are exceptional at not only defending against ranged attacks, but in turning the ranged attack back on the attacker with deflection from the saber as well as force use to re-direct missiles (anything flying through the air is a missile in this example). Jedi are trained in mastering telekenises and the use of the lightsaber to defend themselves in the very early stages of training.

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SkyPreacher1 wrote:

While the rest of SWG world is being screwed, especially CH, TH has the time to fix a vendor. YEAH TH. You DORK.

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TH doesn't fix anything. Hetells you what the Developers fix. He is the Assistant Community Manager, not a programmer.

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Zenister wrote:

Uh oh.. Time to call the WAAAAAHmbulance... My god.. BH's get over it. Its a skill point req. Get medic 1-1-4-0 on yer template and get back to work, there's jedi to slay.

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Unless if you are a BH you got no place bustin' our stones. We have been a broke profession that has been lied to, put off, and shelved for a year. I don't need your medic skills...what I need is my profession to work as it was intended. With specials and abilities exclusive to MY PROFESSION.

That's the problem...too many people see non-commital to a profession or idealism (in RL or here)as a good thing. Why commit to one thing when you can have a little of this, and a little of that??? Where I come from, we call that being a candy-a.s.s.

Ever hear of the phrase "Jack of all trades - Master of none"?

Dabblers shouldn't own a master of a profession...any profession. If you are willing to commit your skill points to one trade,you should be rewarded foryour commitment...BH was given it's template based on the idea that we were making a substantial commitment, and our reward would be a powerful arsenal of weapons and abilities...It never happened...worse yet...we've been nerfed to the point we are a joke.

So...since you are calling for a WAAAAAHmbulance...hopefullly you'll get in it and go away.