Development Cycle Archive

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DarkSmyth wrote:

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Amscu_Edfo wrote:
So, basically if a town has friendly Special Forces standing around, an onleave individual gets scanned and turned Combatant, Special Forces just watch while he shoots all the neighboring guarding NPCs. So theoritically he and his partners have a field day in enemy controlled cities. Great....really great.
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Exactly right. If you guys are going to take the TEFs away, then if someone gets scanned in one of these cities and is "outed," then they need to be turned special forces(PvP enabled). Before the argument could be made that they could not participate in the GCW without fear of player retribution. Well in this case they really do have a conscious choice to make, while still being able to participate. Do I carry illegal goods and have a chance to get killed by a player if I get "outed," or abide by the law and avoid PvP? Remember, the ONLY way to get "outed" is to have illegal items, so PvP in this situation is 100% avoidable. And please don't go crying to me that it's not fair that you can't carry sliced stuff now. You want the reward, take the risk. In a case like this no one should have any sympathy for the person who gets "outed" and complains because they did it to themselves.

TEFs going away I don't agree with but will tolerate, but this is inexcusable. Being scanned and caught with illegal goods should flag you attackable by ANY of the opposing faction. A single Imperial outpost in the middle of nowhere being killed by a Rebel PvEer means nothing, but to let PvEers turn whole cities because they go unopposed cannot stand.

People always ask how just letting the PvE players have their fun negatively affects me, well, this is it. I have to stand by and watch as PvE only players eliminate all resistance in a city with impunity, in some cases turning the city from one side to the other. I can't just "ignore" that as some have suggested because it's all part of the same GCW. What they are doing in that city will affect the overall status of the war, so it cannot be allowed.

In giving the PvE only players a pleasurable playing experience, please make sure that you don't eliminate everyone else's.

And if you aren't going to do that, then those had better be some REALLY hard hitting reinforcement NPCs if you expect them to wipe out whole groups of elite players.

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Agree 100%

Let the PvE's get their kicks at a PvE base. Or make the NPCs something a l33td00d would really try and avoid.

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FantasticPlastic wrote:
It sounds good, except who goes to cities on Naboo besides Theed? I mean, who honestly spends time in Keren or Kaadara or whatever? Perhaps people might go to Eisley on Tatooine but really, I wish this affected the major cities like Theed and Coronet because that's where most players actually go.

O.

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TalusianRogue wrote:

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NickHeel wrote:

(snip)

It's a hindrance. There are places where scans take place on everyone except certain people who didn't spend a skill point to Smuggle, yet do it better than someoen who spent 121 skill points to do the same action.

The only thing we're asking for is penalties for contraband on everyone unless you have special training to avoid those scans. Generals still pass through metal detectors at the Pentagon and other places. Colonels should be scanned at least sometimes.

I wish I could spend afew hundred thousand credits to be able to travel to certain cities so I could craft rifles better than a 12 point Weaponsmith or buff for longer with better results than a 12 point Doctor. Why should someone be able to travel to certain places to Smuggle better than a Master Smuggler with no risk?

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If they are just carrying gear for themselves, it isn't really smuggling by definition - illegal goods up to a point should certainly be tolerated for high ranking officers. I think the debate here shouldn't be on whether high rank should or should not equal immunity, but that perhaps a threshold might be set for them. Certainly in all instances rank equals leniancy, but it, too should have limits. I think the best thing that could come out of this is for there to be a real fear by all other players to get caught in one of these scans to encourage a new system where a smuggler would be necessary to get criminals and their wares through these checkpoints. Rank should certainly be a factor - but that leniancy towards higher ranking officers ought have a limit.

Even with rank being immunity, a high rank would theoretically only protect you from 50% of the scans you might encounter. Before this is ever figured out, however, it is my firm belief that being caught in one of these faction scans should have real consequences.

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No player shuold have 100% effeciency at doing something without skill points spent. And that applies to anywhere in the Galaxy.

I'll agree with you that leniancy shuold come with rank. But, to an extent. 75%efficiency is pushing it for a Colonel in his own territory. And if he was in enemy territory, he's going to be fired on when he gets seen by the scan team before they even get a chance to scan him. So what's the point of using a Smuggler at all? None. He doesn't need them in his own territory and he won't need them in enemy territory.

Smugglers get a 95% sca evasion. Colonels shouldn't receive that. 75% tops. Leniancy is leniancy. But blatant disrespect and corruption shouldn't be tollerated.

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Inamalcus wrote:

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Calandryll_SOE wrote:

Additionally, if a Jedi is scanned s/he runs the risk of being exposed. Should this happen, the police may panic and call for help, bringing a very powerful force on the Jedi. Note that Imperial allied police will call forces to attack any Jedi, regardless of faction. Rebel aligned police will only call guards to attack Dark Jedi.

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I assume the reason for this was the reason for visibility ... so that you don't have jedi running around in public, lightsabers blazing, force blasting everything in sight. I can agree with that.

A few points:

1) With this going in, which will further drive Jedi underground, pleaseconsider removing NPC's giving visibility. That doesn't achieve what you set out to do. Me carving up a Janta Shaman with no players for 5km doesn't affect any player's 'immersion', since they don't see it. I'll avoid civilization but at least give me the wilderness back. I gotta play *somewhere*.

2) As others are citing, there is canon prescedent for imperial force users. Some may certainly see themselves as 'dark jedi' not aligned with the empire, or fallen jedi. However, some of us see ourselves as imperial inquisitors. Inquisitors should get the same treatment by the Empire as rebel jedi do by the Rebellion.

Remember that you are making a MMORG, don't forget the 'multiplayer' part. This looks like another way to push the Jedi further out of the 'multiplayer' part. Heck, we can't even group, even with other Jedi, without gaining visibility and invariably loosing xp ... now we're not allowed to travel to the 'main' planets? And soon after not others? What /should/ I be doing with my Jedi then?

Again, I do understand that you want to keep to canon, and not have Jedi running around in public, but I think you need to reevaluate how you're doing this.

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Not flaming.

Please don't put canon and Jedi in the same paragraph unless you are saying "There are no Jedi (except a very few)during this timelineper SWCanon".

Message Edited by DarkSmyth on 02-08-2005 03:56 PM

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Calandryll_SOE wrote:

We seem to be on different pages here, so let me clarify. Factions that "hate" you may still attack you. Nothing about that is changing.I just wanted to make it clear that the calling of reinforcements will only be done if you are scanned and are of the opposing faction of the one that controls the city.

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Thanks, Cal So much.

I didn't understand Neutrals place after these changes were going in, mainly with the whole "police force" idea and how they're run by the controlling faction. I didn't understand how the (now) Rebel CorSecs or Imperial CorSecs would behave in regards to the old faction system. Yeah, I'm dumb - police forces are their own NPC, NOT Rebel CorSec police forces and such.

And, to avoid anyone else getting confused by "enemy agent" and "enemy faction player," maybe change thatto "enemy faction player (Rebel or Imperial)."

Faction to me, as a Neutral player, means Ankaran Gungan, CorSec, RSF, Meatlump, Chunker, what have you - not necessarily just Rebel or Imperial. That's what kept confusing me, I guess - the fact that some NPC's will become double-factioned essentially, in that they'll be CorSec, but also now Rebel or Imperial depending on who's in control. Just bein' dumb again.

Thanks again. Not as worried now, just want to see how this gets implemented and try it out. It will add some fun to the GCW.

Message Edited by Warryyr on 02-08-2005 12:59 PM

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Warryyr wrote: And, to clarify for you, Neutrals will be scanned and WILL get a positive result if they possess any illegal goods. They will not always get a negative result when scanned, and they are not invulnerable to scans.

Neutrals are a part of this system as much as anyone else, and I'm sure other folks would like to get the full details about our place in this game, too. That's not making an issue where there is no issue, it's clarifying a new system that will most definitely affect our gameplay.

Take it as you will, but consider re-reading the post, as you seemed to think that Neutrals can do anything unhindered. This is not the case at all.

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NickHeel wrote:

(snip)

No player shuold have 100% effeciency at doing something without skill points spent. And that applies to anywhere in the Galaxy.

I'll agree with you that leniancy shuold come with rank. But, to an extent. 75%efficiency is pushing it for a Colonel in his own territory. And if he was in enemy territory, he's going to be fired on when he gets seen by the scan team before they even get a chance to scan him. So what's the point of using a Smuggler at all? None. He doesn't need them in his own territory and he won't need them in enemy territory.

Smugglers get a 95% sca evasion. Colonels shouldn't receive that. 75% tops. Leniancy is leniancy. But blatant disrespect and corruption shouldn't be tollerated.

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We find ourselves in agreement on your last note, but I still wish to contend that there is a real possibility of smugglers becoming worthwhile in getting High ranking officers across enemy lines safely. Most of the time when I go into a city, it isn't guns blazing. The reason smugglers is pointless at this point in time, is that there are still no consequences whatsoever for being caught with contraband. The question of "Why smuggler?" ought first be answered before we ask "Why high ranking officers too?"

Again, Calandryll this is a fantastic oppurtunity to bring some real life into the smuggler profession - use it wisely.

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Warryyr wrote:

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Calandryll_SOE wrote:

We seem to be on different pages here, so let me clarify. Factions that "hate" you may still attack you. Nothing about that is changing.I just wanted to make it clear that the calling of reinforcements will only be done if you are scanned and are of the opposing faction of the one that controls the city.

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Thanks, Cal So much.

I didn't understand Neutrals place after these changes were going in, mainly with the whole "police force" idea and how they're run by the controlling faction. I didn't understand how the (now) Rebel CorSecs or Imperial CorSecs would behave in regards to the old faction system.

And, to avoid anyone else getting confused by "enemy agent" and "enemy faction player," maybe change thatto "enemy faction player (Rebel or Imperial)."

Faction to me, as a Neutral player, means Ankaran Gungan, CorSec, RSF, Meatlump, Chunker, what have you - not necessarily just Rebel or Imperial. That's what kept confusing me, I guess - the fact that some NPC's will become double-factioned essentially, in that they'll be CorSec, but also now Rebel or Imperial depending on who's in control.

Thanks again. Not as worried now, just want to see how this gets implemented and try it out.

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Got it. I modified the update to make it more clear. Thanks!

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Ruh wrote:

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I don't really consider AT-STs to be technological benefits, mainly because I have seen, on many occasions, Rebels solo atsts. Either killing the pet ATST and its owner, or just killing atsts at bases.

I agree with you that its not that big of an advantage. In its current form, its not a really difficult mob to attack. Post CURB, that may be different. Remeber the ATST will be at every PvE base and post CURB that might affect the planetary balance of power.

I was just trying to point a hit to the rebellion. Depending how the reinforcements are handled, it might not be remotely equivalent. I think the bigger criticism, is that if there AT-ST (or some other general dis-advantage to the rebellion)is an disadvantage to the rebellion as a whole, notjust rebel jedi.It seems like some disadvantage to rebel jedi,would befair compensation.

I also don't agree with the rank getting you passed a scan, maybe giving you a 50% increase at the most (if even that) to avoid one or something like that...but not a free pass on either side. Then there is the fact that why should someone be forced to go up that Rank just to avoid the inherent imbalance.

Also, not all jedi want to be knights, even if they want to PvP with their jedi they don't always want to be a LJK or DJK.

Most people assume that a jedi who is grinding up his template is going for knight, seems the devs and you have also done the same. But that simply isnt the case and should be considered.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that all jedi want to be knights. I agree with you here some people do go knight for various reasons, but the main one being to avoid being perma overt.

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Message Edited by Suba on 02-08-2005 01:59 PM

00101000100110011101001011011111110100100010011111   Colonel Alec Suba: Dark Jedi Elder 
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Calandryll_SOE wrote:

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Telakyte wrote:
Calandryll you and every other person it seems still just glances over the topic I raised without addressing it.

BASICALLY you're telling me as a Special Forces member I watch while NPCs get ganked by someone scanned and made combatant. AKA cities are really not worth patrolling at all.

The message is = PVPers get out of town and go to a PVP base for your fun.

That's fine and I suppose I could understand it, but really...these kind of "watch and laugh" scenarios of troops watching idley while their city's forces are attacked is a bit absurd.

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Actually we addressed this in the TEF and first GCW threads. We don't want players to be forced into PvP situations if they don't want to. PvP players will have a very large affect on the GCW (remember, PvP bases count a LOT higher than PvE bases) but they won't be able to attack players who want to play in a GCW and be a part of a Star Wars experience but do not wish to be attacked by other players.

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Well these will be interesting days ahead. Major NPC cities will become FP farming zones as a PC operative will not be able to defend it from a non-pvp combatant.

Rebel Jedi will run around freely as Dark jedi will be hunted down by all NPCs. Hmm I wonder who's going to have the advantage then. You are trying to defend your city PvP base as an imperial whena Rebel force filled with Light Jedi raid the base. You loose you the losse the base... why? because your Jedi got stuck at a starport scan and had to wipe out an entire platoon of NPCs and didn't get there in time.

These are interesting changes but as it is now Jedi are the main PvP combatants and you guys have just put weights on the shoes of the main imperial combatants (dark Jedi) and gave Nike's to the main rebel combatants (light Jedi).

Now the claim for this reason is that the Emperor had no reason to have any additional dark Jedi in the imperial ranks. thats true however there were no light Jedi running around either as a matter of fact the light Jedi that were a live were all HIDING. So what does it truly accomplish to force Dark Jedi to Hide and not force Light Jedi too? In a system that will be rewarded through PvP combat I fail to see how this is not going to be a huge imbalance. dark jedi will have to be running around constantly engaing NPC so that they can gain back imperial faction for every time they get stopped by imperials and have to clear them all out. It sounds like we are about to have now 4 factions in the game. neutral, Rebel, IMperial and Dark Jedi. I truly believe this will be very difficult on the imperials who let us remind those with contuity issues that the Empire should have the advantage not rebels in this time period.

Anyway Cal please explain how or why this doesn't bring asn imblanace to the combat system?

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Kinshi wrote:
This is awsome, and folks, this gives you new reasons to join the fight

Think about it, especially on planets like Tattooine.

If you are a Rebel, and you let the Imperials overrun the planet, you will be TOTALLY lacking a safe starport to travel through.

Rebels may get Anchorhead but it has no starport. This raises the spectre of having Mos Eisley & Mos Espa becoming as heavily patrolled as Mos Espa & Bestine. If the Imps get a monopoly on the starports of planets such as these, they can strangle the economies of Rebel controlled cities as its nearly the same effect as having a blockade.

Way I see it Rebel cities on Tat will have to fight to avoid being blockaded in. This could be a real problem for Rebel cities on Dantooine as well since the Imps automatically get a starport because of their outpost. IF they latch onto the other two, things get messy.

And Lok, well Lok wont change much, I dont see Nyms getting occupied by anyone but Nym (also seeing as how its the ONLY NPC city on Lok)

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