Development Cycle Archive

Thread: SWG Changes Part 3: GCW Occupation System

Geckoscheist
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:42 am
#482


Oops. That was in response to this ---->






Calandryll_SOE wrote:



Additionally, if a Jedi is scanned s/he runs the risk of being exposed. Should this happen, the police may panic and call for help, bringing a very powerful force on the Jedi. Note that Imperial allied police will call forces to attack any Jedi, regardless of faction. Rebel aligned police will only call guards to attack Dark Jedi.






it sould be if a Imp jedi get scaned they wont bring powerfor force, but if they are a rebel they will call for powerfor force. o ya every thing else is AWSOME!!!!!
Itac
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:43 am
#483






raynedog wrote:
This sounds great, but will the space above each planet be counted in some way or change in some way.
Give us more of a reason to fly in space and let space zones change with the GCW

Message Edited by raynedog on 02-08-2005 10:48 AM



i agree very much, i was thinking of this just earlier today!




------Itac Ikie------

ShadowFIYRE






Karquile
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:43 am
#484

At thistimeframe in the movies, the furtive, desperate Rebellion is being hounded from planet to planet, barely hanging on by the skin of its teeth, and in fact is getting ready to have its b*tt handed to it on Hoth and beyond in ESB.


Instead, you're going to have half the galaxy hanging out "Rebel Bake Sale 2-Day" signs as whole cities are overtly controlled.


I appreciate your desire to spice up the GCW, but it is just unfortunate that the overall Star Warsiness of the game has to take such a big hit in exchange. It would have been better to find some way to increase the thrills while staying faithful to the saga.
TalusianRogue
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:45 am
#485







NickHeel wrote:


(snip)


It's a hindrance. There are places where scans take place on everyone except certain people who didn't spend a skill point to Smuggle, yet do it better than someoen who spent 121 skill points to do the same action.


The only thing we're asking for is penalties for contraband on everyone unless you have special training to avoid those scans. Generals still pass through metal detectors at the Pentagon and other places. Colonels should be scanned at least sometimes.


I wish I could spend afew hundred thousand credits to be able to travel to certain cities so I could craft rifles better than a 12 point Weaponsmith or buff for longer with better results than a 12 point Doctor. Why should someone be able to travel to certain places to Smuggle better than a Master Smuggler with no risk?





If they are just carrying gear for themselves, it isn't really smuggling by definition - illegal goods up to a point should certainly be tolerated for high ranking officers. I think the debate here shouldn't be on whether high rank should or should not equal immunity, but that perhaps a threshold might be set for them. Certainly in all instances rank equals leniancy, but it, too should have limits. I think the best thing that could come out of this is for there to be a real fear by all other players to get caught in one of these scans to encourage a new system where a smuggler would be necessary to get criminals and their wares through these checkpoints. Rank should certainly be a factor - but that leniancy towards higher ranking officers ought have a limit.


Even with rank being immunity, a high rank would theoretically only protect you from 50% of the scans you might encounter. Before this is ever figured out, however, it is my firm belief that being caught in one of these faction scans should have real consequences.





Ko'c
Who the ***edit*** codes this game?

Calandryll_SOE
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:45 am
#486






Warryyr wrote:





Calandryll_SOE wrote:





Warryyr wrote:





Calandryll_SOE wrote:





Warryyr wrote:





Ruh wrote:





Warryyr wrote:





Telakyte wrote:
So, basically if a town has friendly Special Forces standing around, an onleave individual gets scanned and turned Combatant, Special Forces just watch while he shoots all the neighboring guarding NPCs. So theoritically he and his partners have a field day in enemy controlled cities. Great....really great.




My thoughts exactly.


What fun is watching some people who got scanned (and their friends) smoke your controlled city of all NPC's? And being totally powerless to do anything about it?


I also think the complete and total LACK of consideration for non-combat players (crafters, entertainers, what have you) to be very shameful. We have no way to defend ourselves from all of this, and it sounds like not only will we be scanned, REINFORCEMENTS show up to give us even LESS of a chance to survive an encounter. I already pity the Armorsmith who makes a vendor run and gets ganked and all his new armor is slightly decayed.


I don't look forward to being a non-combatant in this new system of NPC gankfests. I ended up with negative CorSec faction for going up on the Corellian Corvette once. As it stands now, CorSecs shoot at me every so often, sometimes a few at once. Sounds like I'll get detachments of CorSecs ganking me if I step foot in Coronet Cantina and get scanned. WHAT FUN - can't wait to play some music in there!


What about the non-combatants? Is our new place in this game to just...die for past mistakes before this new system was put in place? Though faction standing was a factor before, it sounds like it's going to be a nightmare now. What a hoot for the non-combatant, and what little fun to have whilejust trying to make a delivery or run your business.


Sorry to rain on the Combat people's parade, but there are lots of us who can barely handle a CDEF pistol. Think what you want of us, but we're not Combat people, and before this change was announced, it seemed like a viable way to play SWG.






I don't mean to come off harsh with this, but if you are not a combatant, dont join the war. I cant remember all of the changes but isnt there the civilian status you can go to, where you wont have to worry about rebel or imperials "ganking" you since you wont get set "overt" (or PvE Combatant I believe) to the npcs.


But my main response to your complain is...if you cant fight in the war, don't join it.







I NEVER JOINED A WAR.


I am neutral. Never once did I mention specificallyI would get ganked by any member of the Rebellion or the Empire. Those are NOT the only 2 factions that will affect these changes...people need to understand this.


I have faction rankings for various NPC's. One visit to the Corellian Corvette has put me at negative CorSec faction. I will therefore be unable to stand anywhere in Coronet once this system goes in, for deliveries, for business, for pleasure, for playing music/buffing in Coronet Cantina, etc. I will be scanned and I will be attacked, and reinforcements will be called on me, all while the only weapon I possess is a freakin' Slitherhorn.


This is not about the war. I want nothing to do with the war. I am just trying to run a business in this game.


This is about factional NPC's ganking me, just as I explained it, and just as Callandryl laid out in the thread. Please re-read and you will see what I mean. This is NOT just Rebel vs. Imperial, this is EVERY single NPC that has a faction attached to it, depending on the controlled city you entered.





Not sure I understand. The reinforcements are only called if you are a rebel and are scanned in an Imperial controlled city or of you are an Imperial and are scanned in a Rebel controlled city. If you are not a Rebel or an Imperial, reinforcements do not get called on you.






Allow me to clarify myconcern -from your post:


"The neutral police forces are loyal to the faction that controls the planet and some will conduct scans of passers by. The police will be searching for contraband such as illegal spices and sliced weapons (regardless of faction) or enemy agents and will fine or attack as appropriate. Running away from a scan will continue to have the same effects (loss of faction). High ranking members of factional armies will be safe from scans if their faction controls that planet.


Players who are scanned by the police run the risk of having their faction exposed if they are in the opposing faction of the one that controls the city. This means players who are “on leave” may become set to “combatant” due to the scan. Faction NPCs will then attack the player on sight. Police may also call in more powerful reinforcements should they expose an enemy faction player. "


Please clarify "enemy agent" and "enemy faction player." They are far too ambiguous of terms, and that is what is confusing me.


As it stands, from the above description - i get scanned by CorSec (loyal to Rebels, let's say). I have negative CorSec faction. I am an "enemy agent" to them. They attack. They exposed an enemy faction player through their scan, and call reinforcements against me.





In both cases ("enemy agents" and "enemy faction player") we were referring to Imperial and Rebel factions.






Thank you for clarifying.


So it is now my understanding that CorSec, RSF, and other "security forces" faction standing will no longer be of consequence? Otherwise, how will them attacking me work?


If a police officer representing Rebels or Imperials shoots me due to a personal vendetta...well that's not very professional.






We seem to be on different pages here, so let me clarify. Factions that "hate" you may still attack you. Nothing about that is changing.I just wanted to make it clear that the calling of reinforcements will only be done if you are scanned and are of the opposing faction of the one that controls the city.


evil-bountyhunter
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:45 am
#487

OK THIS HAS GONE TO FAR!!!!!!!!!!! who are you this is not the same dev team we had befor but oh well all i ahve to say about this







YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT YESS!!!!!!!!!



-Egot- Lvl 90 Spy
Ocab Structures Trader
Comeing soon new and inproved cancel button AI
- I support the Galactic Empire.
Sunakk
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:46 am
#488

Awesome changes! Great to hear!



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WookieOgre
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:47 am
#489


You know it sounded nice up until the point I read that Rebel Jedi get away with being Jedi while Dark Jedi get it from both ends. Why not just have any Jedi being scanned gets ganked by whatever NPC you are going to use? I know you devs are not intentionally trying to play favortism but sometimes it's hard to tell when you blatantly make it so one side has a clear advantage over the other. Personally I could care less as I'm finished with my template but I can see how unfair this would be to an Imp Padawan trying to make his way through any city while Rebel Jedi will more than likely never run into trouble. HOpefully I'm wrong but this might have to be looked at in the future.


If I had to guess there are a lot more rebel Jedi's in the game now......considering Rebels out number the Imps the only thing you will end up regulating is Dark Jedi roaming around lol.


btw, how is it that Rebels can tell that a LightJedi is working for them yet Imps can not tell if a Dark Jedi is working for them?

Message Edited by WookieOgre on 02-08-2005 02:50 PM

Valkyrie36
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:47 am
#490






Telakyte wrote:
Calandryll you and every other person it seems still just glances over the topic I raised without addressing it.

BASICALLY you're telling me as a Special Forces member I watch while NPCs get ganked by someone scanned and made combatant. AKA cities are really not worth patrolling at all.

The message is = PVPers get out of town and go to a PVP base for your fun.

That's fine and I suppose I could understand it, but really...these kind of "watch and laugh" scenarios of troops watching idley while their city's forces are attacked is a bit absurd.




This point was raised during the TEF discussion. The response was basically that is was for the fun of the people who are PVEing. Its a shift in paradigm.


As we play now, PVE against a faction puts you in temporary PvP. The idea being that if you attack the opposite faction NPCs, than you are 'consenting' to PvP. In most cases though, if you are attacking faction NPCs, you are doing it to PvE and are not 'consenting', you are just out to have PvE fun with the main theme of the game.


So these changes put the emphasis on fun. People who want to PvE against NPCs that are the main theme of the game can, without being forced into a gameplay they do not want.


This does put the PvPer into situations that you descibe, but the idea is, you go 'special forces' to fight other 'special forces' who also want to fight you. You do not become 'special forces' to get to kill PvE players.


I don't see where you are suppose to stay out of towns, in fact I see where your role as a PvPer is to go to the other factions controlled city and find PvP battles there. Remember the Ancorhead/Bestine battles?


On your final sentance you find this absurd. I find it odd at bestbut I find the following situation just as absurd.


A group of people go out to have fun killing the Imperial NPCs that have spawned around thier city. A group of PvPers run by and send everyone packing to the cloners and camp out at the spawns. Effectivly ending the fun the first group was having.




Landorin
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:48 am
#491

What about NPC bases which already exist, will they be implemented into that new system and be conquerable as they should have been (if they werent bugged)?
Ruh
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:48 am
#492






jphillips1868 wrote:





Ruh wrote:





Tlk wrote:

Always amazes me people argue continuity only when it favors them.






Quoted For Emphasis.


People are quoting things that are "canon" or w/e for somethings but then argue for things to be away that is against it in another. If this goes in (the unbalance b/t Dark Jedi and Light Jedi) then the rebellion as a whole needs to take a big hit.





Ruh,


The Rebellion has had a big hit since day 1. The empire has the AT-ST and at a few limited times in special events the AT-AT. In the canon, the empire has a technological advantage and the AT-ST represents that. But I undertand your concern.


The only mitigating factor to this is if the Jedi also get the pass based on their rank, then this won't come into play much, because most players that reach jedi, are going to be Colonels anyway. And if the effect of the scan is to flag you as a combatants, are knights already going to be beyond that as special forces because of there permanet overt status.


In any event, I would like a little more information on how all of that plays out with Jedi.







I don't really consider AT-STs to be technological benefits, mainly because I have seen, on many occasions, Rebels solo atsts. Either killing the pet ATST and its owner, or just killing atsts at bases.


I also don't agree with the rank getting you passed a scan, maybe giving you a 50% increase at the most (if even that) to avoid one or something like that...but not a free pass on either side. Then there is the fact that why should someone be forced to go up that Rank just to avoid the inherent imbalance.


Also, not all jedi want to be knights, even if they want to PvP with their jedi they don't always want to be a LJK or DJK.


Most people assume that a jedi who is grinding up his template is going for knight, seems the devs and you have also done the same. But that simply isnt the case and should be considered.



Ruh Shi'od -BoT-

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother." - Henry V


This is myspace.
Arg0nus
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:50 am
#493

My only problem is that dedicated crafters and entertainers that have joined a faction are at more of a risk now. I know a lot of people that have Master Entertainer/Dancer/Musician and no combat skills whatsoever. A lot of 'Smiths/Master Artisans/Master Merchants also....


Each of these people that have joined a faction for whatever reason, are either going to be forced to take a combat profession, get killed a lot,just stay in their houses, or drop the faction.


Even if it's is only PvE...I know my shipwright gets incapped by Kreetle. lol I would hate to see what a Nova Trooper does to his fat butt.


I don't want to sacrifice my crafting professions to get a enough of a combat profession to be able to survive against an attack.


Other then that...Doesn't really affect me. Normally my main, TK/Brawler/Swordsman/Scout doesn't carry weapons or armor....never carry spices....and being neutral...will just skate by the scanners. My fat Alt on the other hand....Just because he's rebel, will get him attacked and killed in no time.:/


I'm sure this doesn't bother many people, but it bothers me...Just a little..


But Ido really like the changes. Makes it more fun for a lot of people. Really happy the game is finally gettingattention in areas that it really needs.



Bored of the Grinding. Taking a break for an unspecified period of time.
Inamalcus
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:50 am
#494




Calandryll_SOE wrote:




Additionally, if a Jedi is scanned s/he runs the risk of being exposed. Should this happen, the police may panic and call for help, bringing a very powerful force on the Jedi. Note that Imperial allied police will call forces to attack any Jedi, regardless of faction. Rebel aligned police will only call guards to attack Dark Jedi.




I assume the reason for this was the reason for visibility ... so that you don't have jedi running around in public, lightsabers blazing, force blasting everything in sight. I can agree with that.


A few points:


1) With this going in, which will further drive Jedi underground, pleaseconsider removing NPC's giving visibility. That doesn't achieve what you set out to do. Me carving up a Janta Shaman with no players for 5km doesn't affect any player's 'immersion', since they don't see it. I'll avoid civilization but at least give me the wilderness back. I gotta play *somewhere*.


2) As others are citing, there is canon prescedent for imperial force users. Some may certainly see themselves as 'dark jedi' not aligned with the empire, or fallen jedi. However, some of us see ourselves as imperial inquisitors. Inquisitors should get the same treatment by the Empire as rebel jedi do by the Rebellion.


Remember that you are making a MMORG, don't forget the 'multiplayer' part. This looks like another way to push the Jedi further out of the 'multiplayer' part. Heck, we can't even group, even with other Jedi, without gaining visibility and invariably loosing xp ... now we're not allowed to travel to the 'main' planets? And soon after not others? What /should/ I be doing with my Jedi then?


Again, I do understand that you want to keep to canon, and not have Jedi running around in public, but I think you need to reevaluate how you're doing this.



-I think ribbons are pretty.
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