Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Roundtable Discussion: GCW and TEFs
Tw0flow3r
Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:05 pm
#482
Make the Temporary Enemy Flag into the Temporary Overt Status. 
JoeyMojo
Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:11 am
#483
What benefit does TEF actually bring to this game?
The big contentions I'm aware of are:
Radar. Overts see other Overts on the radar. There's no way to lay an ambush without using covert gtef system. Fine. There are solutions there if that's a real problem for people. Faction Camo Kits, Placable radar jammars both come to mind.
NPC farming. The most direct solution I can see here is some sort of pve specific tef, ocurring only when an overt witnesses a covert opposite faction member harming an npc. Either an immediate flag for that witness which fades in 5 minutes, or use of the visibility code for npc farming. Killed NPC's in front of faction members? show up on the BH terms.
Really, what im suggesting is complete removal of the GCW/Faction TEF. So completely that coverts cannot heal overts. Coverts cannot trade with Overts. Everything that gives a flag now becomes impossible. Rezzing brings the player back overt. Cloning in factioned city brings you back overt. Why _doesn't_ this work?
The big contentions I'm aware of are:
Radar. Overts see other Overts on the radar. There's no way to lay an ambush without using covert gtef system. Fine. There are solutions there if that's a real problem for people. Faction Camo Kits, Placable radar jammars both come to mind.
NPC farming. The most direct solution I can see here is some sort of pve specific tef, ocurring only when an overt witnesses a covert opposite faction member harming an npc. Either an immediate flag for that witness which fades in 5 minutes, or use of the visibility code for npc farming. Killed NPC's in front of faction members? show up on the BH terms.
Really, what im suggesting is complete removal of the GCW/Faction TEF. So completely that coverts cannot heal overts. Coverts cannot trade with Overts. Everything that gives a flag now becomes impossible. Rezzing brings the player back overt. Cloning in factioned city brings you back overt. Why _doesn't_ this work?
KittenofDestiny
Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:55 am
#484
The tef system is too complicated.
You really need to dumb it down a bit.. make it simple yet effective.
I like the idea of tempory overt status.
Also fix the BH / Jedi TEF's ... I don't want to be gank'ed by a ton of others which don't have the mission on me.
You really need to dumb it down a bit.. make it simple yet effective.
I like the idea of tempory overt status.
Also fix the BH / Jedi TEF's ... I don't want to be gank'ed by a ton of others which don't have the mission on me.
Killvin
Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:05 am
#486
If you enter a battle and don't notice that the overt has a group and 10 guys around you have a group pop up also, then you should die. Too say that covert faction members shouldn't be able to come to the defense of overts is stupid, this is the Galactic Civil WAR, not playground. Neutral players or players with the same faction as the opposing group should not receive a TEF. An Imp should not be able to fight another Imp with a group TEF, and neither should a neutral player who has not officially chosen a side. I usually like to have one or two coverts in a group of 4 or five overts. But i always take note of who uses 6 or 7 to there one, because that is dirty, but quite fair.
Suck it up Galaxies, this is war.
Carl Carlson-Bloodfin
MASC'
Suck it up Galaxies, this is war.
Carl Carlson-Bloodfin
MASC'
ONE-ARM
Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:22 am
#487
Right now with groups and jedi TEFs are bugged... some players can get tefs from trading with jedis even when neutral. BH's can hunt their own factions Jedi, ppl in his group get BH tefs if they help the jedi but have to stand there and watch him fight until the BH decides to attack them although the jedi and BH do not get TEFs themselves. Neutral Bounty Hunters attacking faction groups can sometimes get Teffed as well... most of this is really buggy to boot.
NasherUK
Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:07 am
#488
BHs cant get a TEF on overt jedi.
Any overts in the same faction as you grouped with the jedi you attack can attack you, but you cannot attack them back.
Norrinas
Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:35 pm
#489
A players handbook?! Your kidding right? I guess you don't play your own product...... GTEF/TEF is stupid and the lack of a GCW and meaningful fighting at this point in the game is amazing to the point of dumb. Covert/Overt has got to be the lamest fighting system I have ever seen. Seperate the imperials from rebels give us a reason to fight, constantly overt. Either that be neutral (Not involved) Or yet another drum beaten to death overt all the time and PAY FP to be covert 100FP for every 24 hours or so. That would insure that missions were ran, your a crafter or have no PVP ability and just wanna play be neutral.
That would get rid of 99% of the griefing & promote the j3d 3y3 FRS or whatever its called. And promote the GCW all at the same time.
Content, well Capturing a static base(s), giving the members of what so ever base faction some sort of defense offence perk something have a few of these on each planet, imps/rebs gotta capture all 3 to "Own" the rights to that planet, after a 24 hour period the base could be recaptured and or held.
Sorry to be so sarcastic flame me 1 star me ban me its all good.
eakop
Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:13 am
#490
The TEF as it stands I think works as intended, with the exception of some bugs.
The group TEF works perfectly for it's intended purpose. Removing the group TEF would be a mistake, and would change the overall GCW to resemble Colonial style War where each side lines up on a battle field and converges into a mass slaughter. This style of war has been out dated for hundreds of years because it is not viable to overthrowing an oppressive force. That being said, if an overt rolls into town and just starts attacking the first overt they see, shame on them...It just might stand to reason that the one being attacked has friends to help 'em out.
On the Imperial Crackdown note though, some people login for an hour just to check harvesters, venders and say hey to friends. Making them overt via a contraband scan, removes the *pvp by choice* theme. Getting sent to the cloner is not a big inconvience unless you only have a hour to play.
I would how ever like to see a change to going overt, and returning to covert status. Going overt should be easier, as well as going covert should take less time.
Also loading and unloading It would be nice if overtness or tefs didn't kickin until the first input from the client indicating that a person is in control of their toons. Nothing worse than logging in to a cloning center because you where cherry picked while loading.
Just my two cents....
-eakop-
The group TEF works perfectly for it's intended purpose. Removing the group TEF would be a mistake, and would change the overall GCW to resemble Colonial style War where each side lines up on a battle field and converges into a mass slaughter. This style of war has been out dated for hundreds of years because it is not viable to overthrowing an oppressive force. That being said, if an overt rolls into town and just starts attacking the first overt they see, shame on them...It just might stand to reason that the one being attacked has friends to help 'em out.
On the Imperial Crackdown note though, some people login for an hour just to check harvesters, venders and say hey to friends. Making them overt via a contraband scan, removes the *pvp by choice* theme. Getting sent to the cloner is not a big inconvience unless you only have a hour to play.
I would how ever like to see a change to going overt, and returning to covert status. Going overt should be easier, as well as going covert should take less time.
Also loading and unloading It would be nice if overtness or tefs didn't kickin until the first input from the client indicating that a person is in control of their toons. Nothing worse than logging in to a cloning center because you where cherry picked while loading.
Just my two cents....
-eakop-
KiIIgore
Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:50 am
#491
JEDI HEALERS NOT GETTING TEF's IS BS
GCW IS DONE BECAUSE OF LIGHTSABER BEING UNSTOPPABLE
I have a guild of over 70 players, debating on what to do, we will no longer play in the GCW as it is until this lightsaber joke is fixed, or we get armor to defend... plus jedi healers can heal an overt jedi and not get tefed ... but docs do ....
You guys need to re evaluate your whole revamp, some stuff is great, but a lot of it has ruined the GCW.
bradimere
Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:25 am
#492
The one thing i would love to seewhile T.E.F. is
A) Allow the TEF'd person to see OVERT players as RED or if you dont want red, make it some other color other then the Purple/Pink/Blue/Redthat is out there now. maybe make Overt enemy's green ?
B) Allow the TEF'd Person to beable to Shoot 1st at a Enemy Overt instead of being stuck and waiting till your attacked.
Message Edited by bradimere on 07-25-2004 09:36 AM
Jagged-F3l
Mon Jul 26, 2004 10:32 am
#493
Dear Thunderheart,
I think it would be prudent to back up another step and determine whether the notion of a TEF is the real issue. People's complaints about the TEF system can be construed as a symptom of a greater underlying problem.
We should dig deeper and look at the mechanics of PvP. There are two factions: Imperial and Rebel. Within each faction, a player can declare their faction, or remain covert; however, there is this "inbetween state" that we all refer to as a TEF. I think there are enough postings that describe how can end up in this state, and we all understand well how to leave this state. With this understanding, are people really frustrated with the notion of TEF or PvP mechanics, in general?
I think you can go a long way to making this feel more like Star Wars by giving us PvP mechanics that mimic the behavior of the factions as they have been depicted in the movies and books.
Members of the imperial faction fighting for the Empire were typically overt and had to wear imperial issue clothing and armor. There are exceptions to this rule--I'm sure the Imperial military has a robust intelligence division, complete with spies well trained in the arts of espionage and sabotage.
Member of the imperial faction were almost always human. The Empire had a tremendous prejudice against non-human species.
Members of the Rebel Alliance were rarely overt and rarely wore a uniform. I don't recall Rebels wearing any one uniform, even when engaging in unified operations against the Empire. The Rebel Alliance consisted primarily of resistance cells located throughout the galaxy. Pockets of loosely organized individuals committing acts of espionage and sabotage against the Empire. Typically, you wouldn't be able to distinguish a member of the Rebel Alliance from your normal, off-the-street citizen of the Empire--until he/she is caught an act against the Empire. Even then, this individual may be able to escape and go someone else without being recognized.
Given this behavior, I think the TEF can probably be eliminated. Imperials are always overt, rebels are always covert until caught. However, if a Rebel is caught, there is a scope associated with "overtness". Maybe only the patrol knows, or the town, or a planet, and there are actions the Imperials must take to increase the scope. For example, if a Rebel attacks and kills an entire patrol of Stormtroopers, who's left to tell? In my opinion, the Rebel is still covert. However, maybe one of the Stormtroopers "calls it in" somehow?
And the notion that a Rebel can simply go a "recruiter" to remove their "overtness" is just plain silly. The rebel better go into hiding and find someone (like an Image Designer) to help them disguise themselves. Maybe the disguise is temporary or permanent. Maybe Image Designers can sell kits that allow a Rebel to disguise themselves. Whether the disguise is from a kit, something an ID does temporarily, or permanent should have a chance of failure. For example, a permanent disguise, like a plastic surgery, should have a low chance of failure, while a simple disguise kit probably has a low chance of fooling authorities. The chance of failure can be further reduced if the player has certain force sensitivity skills (like the Jedi mind trick).
Just throwing some ideas around here. I could write all day about this subject--at great risk of being fired by my employer 
EvilSockPuppet
Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:27 pm
#494
TH,
With the all overt all the time for Jedi higher than Knight and a similar system, I assume, for higher ranking member involved in the GCW would it be possible to create DMZs in loading areas such as cloning centers, star ports and shuttleports? These DMZs could be areas where you cannot start combat in and if you are currently in combat could not enter?
Otherwise, star ports are going to be real messy places with people being overt all the time. Heck I can see gank squads now camping star ports on planets where the Jedi Enclaves are located.
I dont think peoplewill campstar ports near enclaves...... come on, theres gonna be more than one jedi knight at the enclave. I see an overt jedi getting killed, then tellingother jedi knights in the enclave that the starport is camped. The jedis get pissed and a group of 5 to 10 knights slaughter the campers. The guys wont have much of a chance