Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Publish 8.2 Feedback: Death Watch Bunker

Masanis
Sat May 29, 2004 10:21 am
#469



I like it. I love it. Insanely tough and challenging my God finally something that is worth trying to acheive. What crtying cause you can't grind up a char and solo this mission. Geez use teamwork. I saw people calling for it but what's the purpose for this mission? Loot? Or could it be to achieve a goal? I went to finish the mission, maybe get some loot, and have fun with friends... I only had fun... so I can't complain. Difficult tasks bring communities together. I think some good groups of not nessicarily hardcore player, but of unselfish people willing to work as a unit together to finish this thing. I enjoy this quest very much.





Wow, did this guy even read any of the posts?


ELITE people are going there with cooperative groups trying to take down this bunker. The people that this was designed for can't even complete this absolute mess. I already suggested a server-wide operation on Kettemoor but no one seems to be interested. I think the only way to take this down is with around 100 dedicated elite professions (not the wannabes with one branch in an upper profession that are there at the bunker crying that no one will group with them or let them in. What good is a deperado going to be down there? It's the LLC that does the most damage.)Some people just can't join into such an endeavor becausethey are usingequipment thathas been accumulated from a year's worthof dedicated play. I can respect the thinking of these people...it is a year of work here. I can't expect that they would want to have their best equipment damaged in a POORLY designed dungeon. If there was a possibility in their minds of getting something from the mission they would consider going.


However, Ibelieve that there are enough people onKettemoor that just want to see the armor so much that they'd be willing to go down into the bunker just to help one person get ONE piece of the stuff.I was (am)one of these people. I saw a guy with a full set of BH armor and Iwas like, let's get a groupso that you can get some mandalorian goodness. We gotan awesome grouped scrounged together from some of ourfriends (all masteredcombat professions, with three doctors and an armorsmiththrown in for good measure) and headed over to the bunker. We initially led the charge down the bunker on Tuesday, taking on the brunt of the aggro'd SBDs with little actually difficulty (haha...believe it or not our tanks were efficient) then after finishing the four in one room...four more spawned on top of us. It was brutal to say the least. We had to fall back even as other groups were finally catching up to us (even with ressurection the people in my group that died were essentially worthless until they could be rebuffed outside.Then I came up with a great idea for taking on the bunker: group leap-frogging. We charged back down to our old position (which we had fought for and earned for other groups at the time) and then proceeded into the next room. This is the way to take this place on. Several groups working together. It's just simply NOT possible to take on this dungeon like Fort Tusken or some other place where the red dots are routinely whiped from the screen. We have to accept the fact that fighting is a last resort. This is tough for many of us to accept because we're so used to just blowing everything a way in a room before we move on. No one can accept that not every group that is part of an operation will come out with a piece of mandalorian armor right away. Heck, in a truly organized strike force we all have to accept that only one team is going to get the armor piece out. Some people can accept this, knowing that it will be their turn someday. Whatever, no one is going to want to do somethingthat requires this much self-sacrifice.Whatever.


I amcurrently the champion of killing Black Sun (my friend and I have massed a collection of 37 BH pieces since DWB launched) and rather than try to sell them on the boards and become some kind of uber-l337 (read: lame) couple of jerks we're simply trying to outfit our friends with sets of their own. We're not selfish jerks. We understand the potential profit (in the millions) for all we've collected in our seven buffs worth of work, but we've approached this game from the mentality that it is our group that makes it fun. It's the friendship of our RL buddies and the people that we've met in game that matters most to us. But whatever, people will call actions like this selfish because we're only outfitting our friends. Well... name one aspect of anything that doesn't have its roots somewhere in a small amount of selfishness. We simply don't have to time to loot all of Kettemoor a set of BH armor (although I'd love to accomplish that feat just to throw this kind of elite crap back into the faces of developers that obviously don't care about the wishes of the players.)It is my mission to find a way to beat this bunker in a way that the developers hadn't intended. I hope someone discovers some messed up way to finish this just so that the people that designed this will be forced to do more work to fix it. I am NOT happy unless my 15 bucks a month goes toward making people work.


Anyhow, I am a Master Bounty Hunter and I went with this class because it was either be Boba Fett or be Han Solo (after looking at Smuggler I couldn't justify being one until ships came out. I strongly associate smuggling with things like the Kessel Run and other interplanetary enterprises that can be profitable and NOT spent waiting ten minutes for the one shuttle that services a starport at any given time. I wish there were more than 50 ships in the galaxy, but apparently Vader's other job was the extermination of efficient planetary trael.) The whole reason I chose Bounty Hunter was so that I could hunt Jedi. It's basically the whole reason my gruop of friends came back to this game. All six of us figured we'd form an elite group of Jedi Hunters that were known throughout the galaxy. But no, instead I have to wait because the developers screwed yet another thing up and instead of fixing it promptly they want me to give them thirty more bucks while I wait for a revamp that is going to make my class even weaker. Great, thanks guys.


This fact combined with the terrible spawn time in the Death Watch Bunker are coming close to driving me from the game. I hate to be one of those people that thinks he has some kind fo weight in the eyes of the developers by threatening to cancel his 15 dollars a month, but I would like to think that my exit from the game would affect something. Sadly, my exit will only be noticed by one set of people... and that's probably going to be Blizzard Entertainment. They're the reason I'm even playing computer games in the first place (warcraft, warcraft II, diablo, starcraft, diablo II...5 for 5) and I highly doubt they'd let me down as badly as you developers have. I hate to say this, too, because I think that your game has more potential then yet another fantasy MMORPG, but you just haven't truly tapped into things yet. The Death Watch Bunker was meant to please a specific group and I have no problem with that. The only problem is that no one is pleased (except the masochists and 12 year olds with no typing ability on this forums) and that is a travesty. It's not just people complaining either. Many of us went into the bunker with the cooperative spirit in mind and all we got was thousands of points off of our armor and a looted rebel transmission ( yes, I believed I am the only one that can claim that he looted a rebel transmission off of a Death Watch Guard.) I am not even a loot punk, I give away most of my really good stuff to my friends that need it. Why would I sell an awesome nightsister lance when my friend could use it? I didn't go into DWB wanting some kind of uber loot to sell to people. I just wanted to be a part of the group that brought Mandalorian armor to the people. Thanks for crushing my aspirations in SWG. I love the Star Wars universe, but I also enjoy having fun in my games.


Severely disappointed,


Stenka Razin


Master Bounty Hunter


Kettemoor
Drunkenjedi420
Sat May 29, 2004 1:55 pm
#470

Whoever is Saying they made it Far with less then a group of 20 people is Lying. There must have been other people assisting you. Bull**edit** if a group of less then 15 guys can do anything in this Dungeon...



You must have forget to mention that you didnt fight one Super battle Droid. Are we trying to be Stupid here? I went there again last night and everyone was dying. Make Mando armour hard to get? Dude - Hard to get is one thing - but filling a dungeon with GODLY mosnsters and Little to No rewards for the entire group? Only one person will get a Jet pack or a Piece of armour - what about the Hundreds and thousands of other players on the Server that are just Fed up with doing Missions on Dantooine all day and night?


IF anyone says the Difficulty in this dungeon is Good for them they need a Slap across the Face because they are not Normal. Really - I saw some Uber arse dudes walk in and get their arses smashes by the Droids. There is no DOUBT about this. They dont give xp or Drop any form of Reward. Its just simply not worth it for 99% of the Player base.


-Sazo





Sazo - Radiant
MY DIARY OF NGE
Darkatem
Sat May 29, 2004 2:12 pm
#471

The DW bunker is waaaay too hard. It's content for maybe 0.1% elite of the SWG population, everyone else will despise it! Is that the right way to spend your dollars, SOE?

We took a total of 24 people there today, most masters in one or more combat profession(s). We got slaughtered, partly because of the time it takes to kill a single SBD and partly because of their insane respawn rate (and a rebel who thought it was very very funny to train 4-5 more SBD's on us a few times.. grow up buddy).

The DW bunker being hard just to make sure the mandalorian armor is rare is waste of content. There's other ways to make the armor rare instead of wasting an entire dungeon on a very very small portion of your players. The two last dungeons (the corvette and now this one) has really dented my hopes for the future of this game.

Cool loot is one thing. Letting most of the players having a shot at getting to it is something different alltogether. You need to decide if you want to cater to the minority or the masses. Guess who pays your bills.
Masanis
Sat May 29, 2004 2:41 pm
#472

Just so everyone knows, I was quoting some guy in the first paragraph of my last post. Some guy that obviously doesn't understand how crappy this bunker is for even the upper echelon of galaxies.


The developers do not care what anyone thinks, so starting this thread was a real waste. It's just an example of the crap that corporations do in order to appear to actually listen to the people that pay for their products.You see, the trick of the matter is that no matter how pissed some of you get at the developers you continue to pay them your money. If we somehow managed a massive cancellation due to the absurdity of the bunker then perhaps they would listen. However, the fact of the matter is that many of you continue to play the game even as you get upset at the developers for theabsolutely terrible things that they introduce to the game. If you honestly want to make an impact on SWG, then hit them where it hurts--the pocketbook. No revenue=no potential profits, no profits=no jobs, and eventually if it continues even after people lose their jobs then no profits=no game. So yeah, you have the power to get things changed other than this terrible board that the developers put up just so that we can't rant without ANY intention whatsoever of actually listening to what is being said by the majority of the SWG gaming community.


Nice try, devs, your lame excuse for customer service will not placate those of us that are upset with the bunker. Changes will please the community and as such I will stick aroundto see if you do anything about the bunker before I hit cancel.


Thanks.



Darkatem
Sat May 29, 2004 2:53 pm
#473



Masanis wrote:

Nice try, devs, your lame excuse for customer service will not placate those of us that are upset with the bunker. Changes will please the community and as such I will stick aroundto see if you do anything about the bunker before I hit cancel.

Thanks.





The question is, do they want to cater for the casual gamers or the elite gamers? If the latter, expect most current players to quit and have to raise the monthly fee to much more than it is today, which will make your elite players to quit... and voila, SWG closes down its servers.

Get real devs, this dungeon is most definately not well recieved. It's not following continuity (hello... SBD's in all your dungeons.. past, present and future?), it's much too hard for anyone but the most elite players to enjoy and the rewards in it is pathetic.
BlinkemX
Sat May 29, 2004 5:09 pm
#474

Is really sad to see these posts with no response.

Having hard content is one thing, but let that be for the people that can do it or think they can do it. How hard would it be to initiate something for the lower masses? Not too difficult, and this is where most people are. Throwing in little helper droids and such I guess is our little prize, but I'd love to be able to do dungeons and other zones too, but knowing I have absolutely NO chance of succeeding either here or in the bunker is dead depressing (no pun intended), so there's no reason to even go or think about going.

Guess I'll go kill some more pikets and not get paid for it.



Cazo Eide - Sergeant in the Rebel Alliance against the Galactic Empire
CazMeds, Inc. Shopping Center & Pharmacy - Trinsic, Dantooine : 1196, 4109

Master Doctor
Master Medic
Scout - 0/0/1/0
Master of the Teras Kasi Arts
GWDiesel
Sat May 29, 2004 7:05 pm
#475

OMG! I'll get banned for this, but you dev's are absolute [fill in the blank]! we just did the death bunker and there is no point to this.. Why? Is this your formula for new content? Super battle droids that are resist to most of what you do? To spend 40 minutes fighting a battle droid? I've been a member for almost a year now with 2 accounts, I'm getting closer and closer to calling it quits. I'm tired of being nice about this... I don't know what to tell you guys.. Fire everyone and outsource to a REAL software development company.. this is just plain ridiculous..





thepunisher286
Sat May 29, 2004 8:51 pm
#476

WAY too many whiner posts. Do any of you knuckle heads realize if it ever gets any EASIER, there will be MORE mando armor around, the stuff people dont want to see much of?


How can the devs listen to the same group of people tell them **edit** thats completey contradictory to everything they say?!


" We dont want the DW to be so hard, but we dont want to see much mando at all!" - Excuse me? Did I miss something? DW bunker is there to keep mando rare...making it easier will just piss off even more people. Its a VERY good thing devs ignore some of you guys...


Im damn glad no one is around to try the DW. Less lag for me and my group, no assclowns burst running through the dungeon, pulling a train of SBD's then feigning death in the room my group is in. Best of all, no other groups pulling in agros in your room your not prepared for.


SBD's arent what make the place hard. Theresa trick to get by them if you ever tried to learn instead of thinking brute force will get you through.


Every try having a squad leader for a leader? they dont help much, but they do help. Having 3-4 Docs is an obvious must there, and at the least 2 CM's to heal peoples mind. Thats the biggest problem in the cave, watching peoples mind pool graudualy drain. Tell your group never to use ranged AOE attacks, and try to get them to concentrate on one traget to take things down the fastest.


Its a LOT of work for one suit, but obviously is also a very good challenge for anyone who is up for it... its clear that nearly no one is up for it even after they asked for something hard... kind of like people asking for jedi to be rare but yelling at the devs to get rid of perma death... biggest problem with the game is the players who whine about the wrong issues.

BlinkemX
Sun May 30, 2004 12:46 am
#477

I fled EQ due to the level of high-character only content they were pumping out that noone could do, don't tell me is gonna happen here too!



Cazo Eide - Sergeant in the Rebel Alliance against the Galactic Empire
CazMeds, Inc. Shopping Center & Pharmacy - Trinsic, Dantooine : 1196, 4109

Master Doctor
Master Medic
Scout - 0/0/1/0
Master of the Teras Kasi Arts
Keltikone
Sun May 30, 2004 1:05 am
#478

Use a pet or a cheap droid on the SBD , once its finished , it generally wont follow your team onwards . Saying that , this will be my last post too , since the last person I started this game with has cancelled and I really dot think the game is heading in a direction im comfortable with .


Good luck to you all ,





Retired - Account ends 13 June 04
Tobit0
Sun May 30, 2004 8:09 am
#479

Well, I don't think i'm going to be doing this mission, it sounds too difficult, I have a tough enough time trying to just stay a float in this game. Hey, krayts are tough enough for me, I've been trying for ages to get something useful from them and I've looted 9 out of 9 and got nowt so far, I've also done the corvette 4 or 5 times with nothing but a cdef to show for it. Simply put I don't have the confidence in the current game system anymore that I will get something out of this mission that will make it worth my time, i'm wookiee, they can't wear mando anyway, so why should I bother.


Good work devs, you got my apathy!





Tobit
Skills mastered:
Master Slacker, Master Novice, Beginner 4444.
Epa1patine
Sun May 30, 2004 10:09 am
#480


Well not that we expect to hear from the devs but if we did we wont hear anything til probably Tuesday, due to the holiday weekend. I have not been to the bunker yet and from what i hear its not going to be worth the trouble. I do have a few question tho.


Is the new combat system totaly in place now or is it still in progress? If not maybe some of the problems with the bunker will be resolved once the new combat system is in place? By making the bunkerharditmay keep them from having to adjust it once the new system is in place.


I see alot of people saying they went in with a group or 20 people and everyone was killed or they had no chance. Are all the members of these 20 person parties really advanced? and are the parties well balanced with doctors, melee, ranged,with a mastersquad leader? You know like a well balanced team or is it the first 20 people you can round up at a starport? Just because you are buffed doesnt mean you cant be killed. I am a Master TK and Master Commando and even with a good buff and Advanced Comp., and brandy from time to time i can still be killed at tusken by a couple of warlords. YeahI knowI suck! But thats all it may take is a careless player or 2 and the group starts to fall.


Most missions, caves, and so on can pretty much be competed with and 10 random people at a decent skill level. Maybe death watch is different and we actually need to be constructive and have a strategy. Also people are complaining about the quality of the Mando Armor in relation to composite. I thinkI heard that Comp.armor will be nerfed very soon so it may turn out the stats on the Mando are great who knows.


LikeI said,I have not been out there and all of the questionsI have above may not apply. I am trying to get a better understanding beforeI even try.

Drunkenjedi420
Mon May 31, 2004 12:17 am
#481

Problem...


1.) We do not want to make Mandalorian Armour Easy to acquire.


Current Solution....


1.) Put 15 Super battle droids in the first 4 rooms.


-----------------------


Problem....


2.) No force on the Server can kill just 1 or 2 battle droids in less then 15-30 mins


Current solution...


2.) Everyone is Pissed off because they cant do anything to kill them.


---------------------


Problem....


3.) We want to make crafting the items harder.


Current solution....


3.) Make it craftable only within a dungeon.


-------------------------------


Problem...


4.) Most people who craft do just that. Since when is a Droid Designer a Infantry man. Even a Group of 15 masters has a tough time here - What makes you think armoursmith/entertainer is gonna even show up to make something for someone else.


Solution...


4.) Allow a non instanced dungeon packed with the Hardest mobs in the game with zero to very little weakness.


----------------------------


Problem...


5.) Most of your players just want to have fun.


Solution...


5.) No one is having fun on this Post at all. The people that are having fun are having so much fun they arent even posting here.


-----------------------


Problem...


6.) Everyone hates the Super Battle Droids and doesnt want it easy to get the rare items in Dungeon....


Solution....


6.) Just make it litterally imposible to do.



------------




Did we seem to Forget this is a game? Guys your loosing touch with Reality in all the Gigapixels and Variables. Make it fun guys and challenging. It seems like over 90% of your player base thinks its virtually impossible. Screw the Mando armour - put some modified Ubese in if need be but make it easier to aquire. Put something in there worth while to Kill Super Battle Droids. This to me seems like the Ultimate Goal - is that what your players are asking for though?


--------


-Sazo







Sazo - Radiant
MY DIARY OF NGE
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