Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Schematics limited to 100
fatal-one- wrote:I cannot begin to explain how terrible this can be for some of us crafters. A T21 rifle for weaponsmiths takes 10 identical handlers.
To use 10 on a schem to hope for the one that i finally get all great successes on, to get 10 useable T21s, then run out and have to use 10 more on another schem, i am using 10% of my hard to come by adv parts just to make the schematic, and repeat.
It's worse than that -- for each item that requires components you have to use some of your 100 sources to make the item. So...
For R3 I have to use 4 of my 100 GP units and memory units to make the schematic, if I get it right the first time. If I don't I get lower yeild. Say 22 droid brains in a run. Now I have to use 2 of those to make a droid schematic. So I can only ever run off 10 R3 in one go.
Not _too_ bad, but the point is if I ever did want to run 100 R3 off, I'd do it anyhow, I'd just have to be on all weekend instead of 2 hours out of every 8.
A limit closer to 500 is reasonable. I've never had enough of all the resources to run more than about 600 items off.
I don't think I ever went to 1000 items on anything, usually I will end up in the 200-500 mark.
BTW if you DEVs think it would ease the load on the database, this would not be the case. I remember the time before I realized you could go past the slider. I was not even Master WS at the time but I made a lot of guns in the first weeks of the server.
I had to give names to my components: I had the 66 Mary Pistol Barrels and 77 Jill Rifle Barrels, I had Blaster Power Handlers BPH Joe, BPH Fred, BPH Jim, BPH Jack, BPH Tom.
Now from 100 BPHs I can make 100 Pistols ... this is in many cases too much for factory production.
So I could make 2 sets of 50 Pistols from one run of handlers. That sounds about right, but I will usually start with 20-30 and make a second bunch when the first one has sold out. All the time I have to keep the rest of the handlers in my house/factory/inventory. Maybe the guns didn't sell that well after all so I have 35 handlers left. Not enough for a new series (including experiments) ... if I get a great result, I will be sorry I can only make 30 or so of them. So I stash them away for the odd gun I am making manually.
Next set of 100 handlers I want to make Laser Carbines from. 100 handlers yield 33-1 factory made rifles. Ok ... I need 6 tries to get a good schematic, leaves 26 Laser Carbines I can make. That's hardly flooding the market ... don't forget it is much harder to sell 26 carbines now than it was back in the days. I might only sell 16, or even only 6. Chances are high I will have a lot of these handlers left. Ok, stash them away.
Now let's make the fabled T21. now how many identical ones I can make from 100 handlers? Aye, 9 is the maximum IF the first experiment yeilds optimum results. I will usually do between 5 and 10 tries if I have some new materials around before I make a schematic. Doesn't make sense to factory produce sub par weapons. So ... do you expect me to use one batch of handlers just for experimentation and then a different 100er batch for the factory production? (And you laughed when I told ya my handlers were named Jim and Joe and Paul? Are you aware we are at the 4th manufactoring schematic just for handlers already and I am just halfway through the preparations for 2 pistol types, 1 carbine and one rifle?
Ok back to the story ... experimenting on the T21 before I make the schematic. Meanwhile I have run out of room in my house and inventory, and half crates of Jacks, Jills, Jims and Marys sitting everywhere. In my desperation I use some Jim handlers on my quest to find an optimal T21. I get a great result and would like to make a schematic. Unfortunately 60 Jims are just now sitting in the factory and being made into Carbines, I have used 10 on the T21, another 7 to make the carbine schematic .... I have 23 handlers left - that would yeild me TWO factory made T21s. I /cry and swear to myself NEVER to use anything other than a handler from an untouched 100er batch for experiemnts on guns, no matter how many Jack, Jills and Toms are around already.
Basically I can then quit for the night because I do not have free factory capacity to run another batch of handlers for T21s, my 2 factories run something else and 100 handlers take to long to wait for them if you have nothing else to do.
Tomorrow when I log on I have to make new handlers first thing ..... leave the 2nd factory so I can run the T21s when the first handlers are ready, then quickly make another set of handlers.
Hope I didn't bore you ... jsut a short story from the life of a crafter.
I don't think it matters much what profession really - for most of us crafting will only get more tedious with the 100er limit.
On the other hand - personally I wouldn't mind a 100-limit on the endproducts at all as long as I can make 1000 (or even 500 or 300 or 600 of the subcomponents). Juat 100 limit on the subcomponents would hit all crafters really hard.
The Database explanation doesn't wash. One thousand items with one serial number is less DB space than one thousand items with ten serial numbers.
Do you really want us to make that many serial numbers? I hope not, for the DB and for the crafters who will justspend more worrisome time perfecting their schematics.
I make runs of 1000 in three factories every two days because it takes that long to run them. I took the effort, time, and energy/money to put down the right harvesters to make 10 crates of stim-b's per day. That is 4 factories running non-stop everyday with 1000 count schematics every 2 days. If you reduce this is my buisness going to stop? Maybe, maybe not, what it will definitely do is increase the number count in the "DB" because now instead of 1 schematic for 1000 you will have 10 schematics for 100 and instead of 4 factories you will have 40. Lets make this right. Keeping it at 1000 is not that hard to do since it has been in game from the start. What needs to happen is the miner profession needs to come back into play (So that people start buying their material from miners noteverybody in the galaxy owning 10 heavy harvesters)and player house's/harvesters need to have a decay rate so that a) architects keep buisness with regular customers, b) items drop out of the DB for new ones to come in, c) it puts currency back into the economy. The only thing a 100 schematic is going to do is make people quit (hope this is not your intent to reduce the "DB" problems) or make them work harder at what they are doing, which quiet frankly I think we work hard enough as crafters already. Just my 2 credits as a master doctor trying to give the Valcyn society some med supplies.
Cranial Vapor
Master Doctor
Co-Owner MedCorp
If you're making crates of components you can only make 100 total, this way.
If you're then making someing that takes 3 identical components, that limits the absolute total amount you can make to 33 at one time.
This seems low, to me. Why not 500? Or even 250. Medics especially like to be able to sell crates of 25 or 50. Please don't limit them to 100.
Jeff AKA Ockam Senowick
Master Doctor/Master Combat Medic
Starsider
Crate sizes should be increased. 100 is a fair number there.
-DD
Holo what does the limit have to do with balance.
Why are your customers constantly being penalized for your database.
Why are crafter constantly being affected by your database.
Try reducing somthing that has no effect on anyone in the game rather then chasing your customers away due to your mistakes.
Is this a balance issue, Absolutely not. This will be the worst move you ever make and drive even more of your dwindling supporters from the game, that have hung in there with the hopes that you guys actually get it together.
Lets look at your wonderous changes to crafting because f database.
First housing and storage, You change resources which adds to the number of things stored you require a mn of 15 diff resource to work a profession, in every different resource pool. So you force each of us to have Every type of harvestor times 2 or 5.
Second Vendors you make them count against your house, then you dont in this wondrous illusion that hey vendors wont penilize your house total that we cut in half DUE TO OUR TERRIBLE MISCALCUATIONS, that you have helped us figure out as you pay us monthly to do a very poor job. Then the wondrous never mentioned 72 hour deletion out of the store room with no notification.
Then the unworking factories that so many said was intentional due to the database issues. Was it Holo, it darn sure looks that way now doesnt it.
Tell us your paying customers 1 just 1 single reason this has for balance in the game.
YOU CAN NOT.
SOOO go ahead and nerf it give yet more of your customers a reason to join your competition.
Another vote for Braydinn's post perhaps with a twist if I'm misreading...
In short, when you want to make a complex schematic all the subcomponents should be provided as schematics and the final craft then requires all the resources of all the subcomponent material costed out (like the tally at swgcraft.com provides) and providing in one shot to the factory. The time to craft of a single item simply becomes the added complexity of the final + all subcomponents (recurring as necessary). The result? ONE CRATE with all the crafted items. You want a simple DB? I give you one. Every factory result is ONE CRATE with a count <= 100. So simple you can track with a Post-It®note.
I think that lowering the limit to 100 would affect some crafters more than others.For crafters thatneed 3 to 8 of identical subcomponents (maybe more, im not sure) this would make things a little more tedious and annoying.
I think the limit should be changed to 1000 legitimately andincrease thesize allowed in crates on some items. If the crafter has the material why do it any other way. unless you want to make things more tedious and more micro management and more time doing a "job" than having fun playing a "game".
If this change were to go through I would give up crafting all together and become a resource seller. It just seems that there is too much "work" involved when factories are supposed to automate things.
I might bein the minority here... but if you are making a schematic where it requires a sub part why not make the costs of that sub-part directly involved in the overall cost of resources.
A good example is the advanced droid brain which requries 2 master artisan made items exactly the same way 4 times. A factory should be able to build all of that together at one time shouldn't it? Do you see dunkin doughnuts shipping in pre made dough for the police who want to eat there? Is the coffie trucked in daily? Do McDonnalds french fries get made BEFORE you were hungry? Ok the last one is a bad example but this isn't like a fast food place that expects to sell the food before you get there. Even then the fries have been made for years now and the machines to build them have never changed.
Sub Schematic Materials cost directly added to the final. Either that or factorys become exactly the same as the current in game jedi status. As it is right now factorys are primarly used to build one item in mass quantity anyways. Why not allow it to build all the parts of an item from start to end? This way the 100 limit actually allows 100 items to be built (as long as the resources are the same) from start to end.
i think you should limit it to 10. why go to 100 anyway? i mean look at it this way... nerf nerf nerf nerf. what do you people honestly think? i know it sounds like a rant here, but come on. since i started my house has vanished what, 3 times? ok and i have to make these lists. list? im an architect! how am i supposed to guess what kind of this or that i used? and furthermore unless i was PLANNING to have my house poof, why would i keep a record of it? it really does seem like you want to get another eq hold on this game. squeeze till they almost break and give them back a tenth of what they had and they are happy. well not me. guys leave it alone. why if something is working must you constantly mess with it? fix some real issues.
balance theinvincible at-st or, add something for the other side
do something about the poison EXPLIOT (which seems to be a word preferred by devs, unless its for player benefit)
nerf eye shot
give creature handelers back their umph
heres one... fix commandos
add some points to elite classes so we can maybe fight out of a wet paper sack (since it seems so cool to put red cons in EVERY harvesting area)
half the resources needed for architect
maybe reduce something that will aid the players (crit fails anyone?)
make armor worth wearing
un nerf probots so they can be somewhere near effective
give back house storage capacity
lessen the lots needed for a guild hall
why is structure factory the only one that takes 2 lots?
make a lamp light
shorten the incap timers
theres plenty of things to FIX guys, why do you allways want to fix what isnt broken and ignore what is?
honestly ive talked to several people, 1 more nerf and there 40 of us that will be just as content being an orc. but i have to say i am sad i waited so long for this.
by the way, i think lessening the limit is a bad idea
from my doctor/combat medic point of view this would be horrible. i use huge (1000) schematics on just about every advanced component to have some supplies to work with then do smaller runs (200-500ish) for whatever is needed. i burn through a lot of resources doing pvp and pve, having big schematics allows me to sell stim Bs on the bazaar whenever i hit a town to help pay for all these expenses. if i have to attend a factory every couple of hours to just have supplies of poisons and stims for my own use... bleh.
selling stims to other players is the only continuous income for ONE support class (basically only docs, not CM or entertainers). limiting schematics to 100 is going to severely handicap those.
i fail to see how this would be beneficial or even come up as a priority to "fix" when so many things actually NEED fixing and/or improving upon....
shard
*baffled*