Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Roundtable Discussion: GCW and TEFs
GoCanes
Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:24 am
#430
Thunderheart wrote:
What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?
So what happens to crafters/non-combatant types who slowly gain rank only through PvE in hopes that the higher rank will open up new types of faction furniture/decorations in future patches?
TechnoHic
Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:28 am
#431
About TEFs,
I can understand not wanting to be TEFed by trading and such, but to say I want to attack storm troopers WHILE AT AN IMPERIAL BASE and not worry about being attacked by someone is ludicrous and cowardly. Sure, mow down the helpless, weak NPCs and not want someone to stop you, yeah whatever. Heres my idea, dont attack my faction and I wont attack you and by no means do it at a base and expect no recourse. How is that not fair?
I feel the same way about healing the enemy. You heal the enemy, you die in my book. See em overt, dont heal em or buff em unless you are ready for the consequence.
Now while I stand for those things, I can agree that its wrong that people use it to hide people in the group for a sneak attack. I dont know how you seperate the 2 other then if someone is overt and your not, no grouping or healing allowed, and then youd have to say no attacking faction NPCs unless overt.
TH, I understand not everyone wants to PvP, but to not give em a tef while attacking either sides NPCs or healing the enemy, I can see it now:
-Coverts clean out the already useless NPCs then the overts come in for a clean shot at a raid.
-Standing there watching coverts easily destroy what should be a mass army while I am unable to intervene.
-One invincible overt with several covert doctors or medics sticking right by em healing every wound and damage taken.
Exploits would be all ove rthe place so please, either leave tefs or make it to where you have to be overt to help another overt or attack faction NPCs and then give the non-PvP people something else to do. Maybe let them attack all the NPCs they want at their generated missions but sure as hell not at a base.
CyberFett
Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:29 am
#432
I have been a proponent of getting rid of TEF all together. Not to make it easier for the faction Farmers, but to make it a little more realistic.
If you are overt then you are saying I want to PvP. So complaining about getting group TEF ganked is a moot point because if you do not want to deal with it, just do not go overt, problem solved.
If you are not overt and are killing Factional NPC's and an Overt walks by, to want them to not be able to help the NPC's and let you sit there and Faction Farm is also rediculous. You have a choice there as well, either do not kill Faction NPC's or do not join a faction at all, and then you will be safe.
I actually think TEF for killing Factional NPC's should still be left in the game, also the TEF for healing an Overt player. Where the real problems come in is with the GTEF where you have 1 overt and 19 coverts, ect......
Originally I thought the best way to fix this was to get rid of GTEF all together and make it to where any Covert can attack an overt at any time (since that Overt is saying they want to PvP) but when they do they would immediatlly be turned Overt, then coverts could attack them. This would be more realistic, but with all the problems with GTEF I realized that this would be the same if not worse.
So now I would have to say, get rid of GTEF. I was one of the ones who wanted something like this in the begining. It did not make sense to me that you could not help your overt friend who was being attacked. But of course people have found a way to abuse this feature and have made it into a "Battle Tactic".
In its place, how about making it a Group Overt Status.
If you join a group, with an Overt as the leader (if there is an overt in the group but he is not leader nothing will happen) when you are invited to join the group you get the normal invite box, then after that one you get another box which will give you the option of weather you want to go overt or not. If you chose no, you will not be able to attack someone who attacks the group, if you chose yes, you will be turned overt.
Healing TEF's will still apply, so you can be a Doctor and join the group, but decline to be overt. You can heal the group and will recieve a TEF for healing but not be overt. Unfortunatlly for gaming purposes this really needs to stay in. It is annoying to get booted from a house or Player City Structure for this but really needs to stay because I dont think it can be just in battle. Untless there is a way to just get a TEF if you heal someone who is in Combat, but I doubt there is.
Trading TEF needs to go away, it is just rediculous to be kicked out of a house for trading. I do not care if you are trading a Nuclear Bomb, If you are the only 2 people in the house how will anyone know you traded it, and since I do not think it can be tied into if you are seen trading this item to the overt, it just needs to be done away with.
I think these things will really help the current PvP system.
1) If you want to PvP, go Overt. (your choice)
2) If you find others who also want to PvP, you can form a group, they are given the option to go overt or not when they join your group. (your choice)
3) If they do not go overt when joining the group, they can not attack. Medics and Doctors can heal, but they will get a TEF. (your choice)
4) You still get a TEF for killing Factional NPC's. (your choice)
5) You still get a TEF for healing an Overt player. (your choice)
6) No more TEF for trading.
The group Overt thing can be tied into rank some how. Rank could determine the size of the group you can have and how many you can turn overt.
CaptainUltros
Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:34 am
#433
Personally I think you should keep the TEF's for attacking opposing faction NPC's. Just make sure the noob's know about it cause I remember walking through Mos Eisley like the day of release with a TEF and not knowing about it. Almost got waxed by em. =P If I had been I wouldnt be pissed I would have learned somethin'. Have like an Introduction to the TEF system pop up when you choose your side.
Plus it would be annoying to have a bunch of rebels at the Emperors retreat or some other imp city camping all the storm troopers while you stare at them. Also if people had factional bases they could just send in coverts to take out the stormtroopers and AT-STs. (Well If they were a real factor lol)
Maybeit would be a good solution to lower the time for the TEF's when you kill NPC's only.
Also about the healing TEF. If you were in a group with an Overt and you were covert doing some PvE (Like last night we had a mix of those at the Death Watch Bunker) it would be really annoying not being able to heal those overts. Specially since a couple of them were Dark Jedi in the council and cant go covert =)
Thyriel
Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:53 am
#434
That would be a very great idea. Maybe based on the faction rank someone has baught. But to take this idea a great step further, what about implementing an permanent overt status (like the ranked Jedis are having now). For this perma overt status, u could implement higher ranks than the current max rank (if i remember right it was Colonel or so), so if players want to get higher than Colonel, they need to talk to recruiter, get maybe a double warning that they will go permamnent overt when reaching higher than colonel...
Thunderheart wrote:
What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?
uofwi92 wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
This has been a really great thread and new discussions are still popping up.
Paulie35 wrote:
Remove TEF. If a player does not want to PvP they should not have to.
If we did that, it would dramatically change things. As it stands, people don't ever have to play PvP. They can remain Neutral and never have to be involved. Declaring Covert means a player primarily wants to play GCW PvE. There are certain actions that will push them to Overt status or put them at risk, but in each case, its a choice the player makes to get involved.
Should that risk not be part of the conflict? It was something that players strongly requested pre-launch.
I agree with this poster. I hated nothing more than when I was a noob killing stuff in the Imperial Research Facility on Naboo, just trying to level up and get some decent loot when a master Imperial would show up and wax us because we were TEF'ed. I never made the choice to fight this person, but I had to because I was killing Imp NPCs.
This does, however, create a divide between overt and the rest of the game. If you're not overt, you shouldn't be able to heal someone who is (ala gtef). I think you should be able to trade, though... /shrug
KurtVogner
Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:31 am
#435
It heavily depends on what you are trading. Certain things that are traded can have a serious impact on the game. To flag each item and do an item check every time a player traded something to another player would give the system an aneurysm. Instead, the prevention measures for the potential combat grief falls on factional status. The side effect certainly is the pain of the "trade TEF" and I am pushing for that to be included in the GCW revamp.
ThunderHeart lets use our heads. were smart people, think.
Ok i am a overt Msmug shooting a MBH and i am losing so i get a doc friend who is covert to heal me while i fight. Or trade Stim packs.
that causes my healer to go TEFed the smartest thing you do is kill the enemy supply line.
Lets remeber the lil things do alot
ThunderHeart lets use our heads. were smart people, think.
Ok i am a overt Msmug shooting a MBH and i am losing so i get a doc friend who is covert to heal me while i fight. Or trade Stim packs.
that causes my healer to go TEFed the smartest thing you do is kill the enemy supply line.
Lets remeber the lil things do alot
Tstorm
Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:57 am
#436
Thunderheart wrote:
What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?
I have thought about this some more and have some more ideas.
The whole idea of covert status is to engage PvP timid people in the GCW without all the danger of full overt status. Why are some people timid to engage in PvP?:
- Bad experience with PvP in SWG previously
- Bad experience with PvP in another online game
- Wary of PvP based on every other post on the Bria forum being a negative rant about PvP
- PvP playstyle doesn't offer enough appeal/reward
- Stories on forums, from friends, in guildchat, etc. talking about griefers
I think PvP in its current form in SWG is a failure. The thought of a covert system with TEFs is GREAT at giving players wary of PvP a taste of PvP on their terms, but there needs to be more incentive. Greater rewards for entering covert status needs to exist (most players are just neutral), greater rewards for gaining rank needs to exist, and the pinnacle of rewards needs to exist for overt status players (greater reward for the greater risk).
Particularly with covert status players, options other than "attack and kill player" needs to exist for those with a TEF. Perhaps make it so an overt can only attack if the TEF'd covert opponent is within a certain level of the overt (no completely unfair mismatches between buffed/unbuffed, armored/nonarmored, crafter/combat, etc. players). Instead, perhaps allow the overt to call for NPC support in a canned way that alerts the covert that they had better start running. Also let the covert know that because their covert status was detected, in 20 minutes they will become overt as their status makes it onto the Holonet. By doing this, the covert can escape (if they act fast enough to get out of danger and return into hiding) the "unfun for the PvP timid" aspect but still get an adrenaline rush that goes along with a true challenge in PvP and perhaps convince them to one day go overt.
Rookgraawl
Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:07 am
#437
Leave the TEFs as they are. Be it a private, or a warrant officer, no Imperial will stand there and watch a Rebel take out Imperial personel. Period. And vise versa. If you don't want to become TEFed, resign your faction. Being a member of a faction represents a player giving their _life_ to the cause. Doing so invites risk. Or, just be careful. I've TEFed all the time without any problems. If you plan to TEF, make sure that you clone, and do /who Imperial or /who Rebel frequently.
Thunderheart wrote:
What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?
Cnotiwan
Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:25 am
#438
Not entirely accurate TH. By Being a neutral jedi when a factioned BH attacks you, all the members of the BH group gain a group TEF on you, however no members of your group recieve that same GTEF. Some sort of code modification that disables rebel Vs rebel GTEF or imp Vs impGTEF would be a good addition to the game
Thunderheart wrote:
As it stands, people don't everhave to play PvP. They can remain Neutral and never have to be involved. Declaring Covert means a player primarily wants to play GCW PvE.
raynedog
Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:46 am
#439
I'm not shure if this is possible but if players could buy schem for rebel or imperial armor, and amorsmiths could craft them, or imperial and rebel uniforms and taylors could craft them, you would think you would have a perm TEF for equiping the item if not already overt.
Seems to me if you wearing clothes or armor for one side or the other, people know wich side you stand on for the gcw.
This would also allow the "power" of this armor or clothes to be strong snice players must make the sacrifice of being overt or perm TEF to wear them.
Armor Imp/Rebelcould only be sliced by a member of the hutt faction......ok that last part was just for fun.
Pharrel
Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:58 am
#440
Let’s make things interesting in the GCW. Colonels are the highest ranking player rank in the game. There should be a point in gaining the rank of Colonel besides selling faction points and profiting from the position, which is against all forms of the military code. I would recommend that Player Colonels have the ability to Declare Faction Affiliation at Will, in themselves and in their fellow faction members. Colonels and players will still have to find a Faction NPC to return to Covert Status.
The object of the recommendation is to introduce the element of surprise into Factional PvP and make the rank of Colonel more desirable.
Discuss
The object of the recommendation is to introduce the element of surprise into Factional PvP and make the rank of Colonel more desirable.
Discuss
lund0529
Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:56 am
#441
Thunderheart wrote:
fatgit wrote:
I agree that covert players SHOULD get a TEF for factional PvE.
However, simply trading with an overt will get you a TEF, this seems to be a bit over the top.
It heavily depends on what you are trading. Certain things that are traded can have a serious impact on the game. To flag each item and do an item check every time a player traded something to another player would give the system an aneurysm. Instead, the prevention measures for the potential combat grief falls on factional status. The side effect certainly is the pain of the "trade TEF" and I am pushing for that to be included in the GCW revamp.
Why not just put the TEF on healing/trading with someone in combat vs. just someone overt?
Snix
Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:54 pm
#442
Thunderheart wrote:
This has been a really great thread and new discussions are still popping up.
Paulie35 wrote:
Remove TEF. If a player does not want to PvP they should not have to.
If we did that, it would dramatically change things. As it stands, people don't everhave to play PvP. They can remain Neutral and never have to be involved. Declaring Covert means a player primarily wants to play GCW PvE. There are certain actions that will push them to Overt status or put them at risk, but in each case, its a choice the player makes to get involved.
Should that risk not be part of the conflict? It was something that players strongly requested pre-launch.
My jedi is neutral, yet i get attacked by an imperial bounty hunter, then i get aTEF and all his imperial buddies he is grouped with can attack me?
That doesnt really match with what you are saying there.