Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
BabyRancor wrote:
I'm going to copy and paste the relevant section from a post I made on the complete Jedi system.
In summary, I'm for a Known path with Unknown Specifics. In other words, everyone will know how to start the quest for Force Sensitivity(or at least the information how to will not be hidden), but the specifics for completing the quests will not be given - just a general direction.
The key element for the quests should be to get the FS hopefuls to get out and actually play the game - to participate in the content that exists rather than locking themselves away from the rest of the playerbase in a seperate series of events.
Please see the above link for my full thoughts- they have been very well-recieved by the community thus far and could spark some ideas perhaps.
Begin included post:
The journey begins...
There is one key point that should be considered. The path to Force Sensitivity has been known for months now, taking that away from the player base by instituting a new system that leaves players grasping in the dark would be met with a great deal of negativity. I believe there needs to be a starting point given and some feedback throughout to make the system fun.
I see the path beginning with a single holocron. They are already in game and not difficult to come by for experienced players (at least one quest and countless Xmas holos still remain). The player uses the holo and gets a system message saying they "feel a strange force pulling them to..." with a random planet designated. Once they travel to that planet and use the holocron again it pulls up an interface similar to the surveying window. The two buttons on the bottom are re-labeled "concentrate" and "meditate" (replacing "survey" and "sample" respectively).
The force is generated in a density map similar to that generated by radioactives (multiple high % spots) and shifts periodically. The player must travel to a spot over 85% before they are able to successfully use the "meditate" function. Meditation generates a waypoint in close proximity (same as with the code controlling treasure map waypoints) and a small natural-looking shrine graphic includinga crystal.
This bit is important both for a sense of immersion (rediscovering the ways of the Jedi from near-extinction) and to avoid having one location where prospective FS players congregate. For at least the first while, the FS quests will be very popular - if thereare only a few places that they go (Jedi shrines, etc) there will be out-of-the-way spots in the galaxy that will be busier than Coronet. Besides being completely non-immersive, the prospect for grief (covert detectors placed in a ring around the shrine for instance) is high. This method personalizes the quest, and spreads out the applicants across planets and locations (which shift periodically).
Using the shrine brings up a welcome dialogue from a disembodied voice - promising training and knowledge of the force. The player is then offered a choice as to which FStree they want to concentrate on.
In this proposal only one of the four FS trees can be active at one time. If a player is interested in Combat Mastery, all Jedi XP they earn goes toward progress in that tree.This allows the different trees to have their own method of progression, as well as their own difficulty weighted for perceived utility of the bonuses (the crafting tree will be highly desired and provide a huge return on investment - and therefore should be more difficult to obtain). Ideally each tree would have it's own type of "Jedi XP" to completely separate them and prevent exploit of using an easier tree to gain XP that transfers to a more difficult tree.
EDIT - When this system was described, the FS experimentation tree was supposed to grant two additional experimentation points. This is not the case anymore, thus the FS experimentationline is not going to be that useful. For the record, I think this line should grant additional experimentation points but not add to points gained from skill tapes. It would provide another method of leveling the playing field - either spend the money required to get the tapes, or spend the time required to complete the quests.
Once a FS tree is chosen, the shrine indicates that a quest must be completed before the training can be started. Since there are 4 trees, prior to starting each tree the player must complete one of the Hero of Tatooine Quests. I understand that you get both a badge and a physical item for completing the quests, so the item could be drag/dropped onto the shrine (which must be found again using the random planet / surveying interface process again - except that the holocron could be replaced by the crystal from the shrine as an indicator of progress).
Once a given tree is unlocked it remains so, and the shrine provides a hint as to how to obtain the required XP:
Combat Prowess
You must seek out the most dangerous creatures to understand how the Force may be your ally in combat
This is the place where the laundry list of mobs belongs, and it doesn't need to be explicitlygiven to the player. For example, a hidden table could be constructed that weights XP value based on mob difficulty and rarity:
- Recluse Gurk King - 1000 XP
- Acklay - 3000 XP
- Death Watch Overlord - 10,000 XP
- etc. (the list doesn't need to be exhaustive - perhaps 20 or 30 entries)
For each mob killed the amount of XP is added silently to a total (the value is not accessable to the player). For training ("further enlightenment") the player must track down their shrine again and see if they've qualified.
This way the player has a means of feedback, but it's not spoon-fed to them.
At the shrine - the player always has the option of refocusing their efforts on another tree. This freezes the skills in the previous tree and all XP earned there. After doing the qualifiying Hero quest, the player is then given a hint as to how to progress in the new tree.
Crafting Mastery
To understand how inspiration and artistry come from the Force you must create the most difficult and rare objects in the Galaxy
Similar laundry list of items weighted for XP by rarity and difficulty. These are all creations from limited use loot drop schematics (DXR-6b, AV-21, RIS armour, crafting aprons,Mandalorian armour and wine, the jetpack, etc. The resulting items are drag-and-dropped onto the shrine where they are checked for presence on thelist and the creator name is checked for matching to the present character's name (to prevent simply buying the items). If both variables are valid the item is consumed and XP awarded (silently) - if not the item is kept in the player's inventory and an "invalid" message is displayed.
The XP awarded is weighted based on the rarity of the schematic and the rarity of loot components required. For instance, the AV-21 schematic is quite common and easy to get - however the powerplant is distinctly less so and so the XP awarded needs to be adjusted accordingly. This can go all the way up to Mandalorian armour at the top of the scale.
Other means of awarding XP (for the other trees)
- Charity: a few NPCs are placed in the galaxy that award specific little trinkets (decorations - nothing with tangible game effect) in exchange for large sums of money. Provided the trinkets are cool and unique enough this would also provide a money sink for the exceptionally rich even if they're not interested in FS. The trinkets could then be turned over to the shrine in exchange for XP.
- Teaching: when a given tree is active, every instance of training (earning Apprentice XP) also provides a small amount of Jedi XP. Greater amounts of Jedi XP are awarded the higher up the trees the skill trained is. Since this can be macro'd in severalways, XP gain would have to be carefully evaluated.
- Quest items: there are many quests in the galaxy that are one-time only and award neat little decorations (food rewards from Mos Taike for instance). These decorations could be turned over to the shrine for XP gain.
- Badges: certain badges could qualify for a one-time XP gain. Things like the Explorer badges (Journeyman Explorer etc, not the individual POI badges), the various CSR badges andthe Warren and Corvette badges could all qualify for Jedi XP gain.
Some of these could be non-tree specific, in that they always provide XP no matter which tree is active (the teaching one for instance).
This way each tree is unique in it's progression, and requires the player to experience many types of existing content. It also forces a character to give away important and valuable items (Mandalorian armour for instance) in pursuit of their goal of Force Sensitivity (very in keeping with the Jedi mythos).
JustG wrote:
(Now with 75% more info!)
There are many stages in the path to becoming a Jedi...
The first among them is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive you can choose to continue on the path to becoming a Jedi or not. The path to becoming a Jedi will be a long and dangerous one.
Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.
My question has to do with the step before all of this... with how you actually become Force Sensitive.
The question to continue discussing is this:
Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive (not the path from Force Sensitivity to Jedi) be a mysterious, unknown mechanic orone that is visible and known to everyone?
Thanks for the continued feedback!!
First off, maybe I missed the memo or something, but I have been under the impression that Pub. 10 was going to focus on the quest to become Force Sensitive. Now it seems that it is the quest to train from Force Sensitive to Jedi? When did this happen?
At any rate, there are two things that will truely influence becoming a Jedi. Desire to create dynamic content for SWG, and keeping in line with current SWG advertising.
Personally, I would love a random, NON-grind quest based system, using the dynamic content from back in beta (girl runs up to you and asks to be saved from STs type stuff) to become Force Sensitive. 1) because it is a fair playing for field for all players involved, and 2) it just makes more sense that way. Look at Luke - his whole journey to FS is based soley on the fact that two little droids, after escaping the Empire, are bought by his uncle from Jawas. Call it fate or a random encounter, Luke didn't go looking for the Force; it found him.
The problem with making it a random encounter is that almost all current SWG advertising really pushes the idea of becoming a Jedi. By making it random, you make it fair and dynamic, but you also border on false advertising. If you advertise that people can become Jedi, then you need a way that they can become Jedi that they can figure out on their own. My problem with static Jedi content is that it will either require something as extraordinary as Holo-Grinding, making itfor power-gamers only, or if the quest is too hard, require "Uber" guilds. This leaves out the casual gamer who plays only 10 or sohours a week, or sporadic time players who can't find a proper guild.
Perhaps a hybrid system? Whereby there is a chance that any NPC in the game, when spoken to under the correct conditions, can give out a starter quest to become FS. This quest would lead to further quests that utilize randomly-generated content based on several quest archtypes for the system? This could use quests such as retrieving and returning items, Loot Kit style quests, combat, hunting, crafting, collecting (like the newbie droid scout quest), etc. Even diplomacy quests where a player must make a decision while talking to an npc, but neither answer is incorrect or an easy choice, making it morally ambiguous.
Here's what I mean. In the movies, Jedi were a known thing. Everyone KNEW it was possible to become a Jedi, but few knew how to seek out the knowledge on where to begin. It was the ways of The Force itself that brought 2 goofy droids to the doorstep of Luke Skywalker, seeminly by chance, that ended up leading the farmboy to Obi-Wan. After meeting with the Jedi Master, the ways were clear, and the training could begin.
Something similar could easily be done in game. I am a Master Doctor and Teras Kasi Master. Who would know me better than the trainer that taught me my original skills so long ago, or another like him? Obi-Wan probably watched Luke from afar for quite some time, and allowed him to come on his own accord, or let the will of The Force bring him.
What I suggest is this: Make the way to find your path to force sensitivity made clear by some trainer in your speciality on a relitivly unpopulated world. What I mean by unpopulated is that there's very few other players normally in the cities. For example, I'd need to talk to a Doc or TK trainer on Talus or Rori or the like. Certainly not the Doc trainer in the center of Theed Medical, but maybe one in Mos Eisly or Dearic would be better able to hide from Imperial Detection better.
Also, make it semi random. I wouldn't include player-city trainers in this, as they can change location and be gone the next day, also it should be revealed with as few others around as possible. Remember: Jedi are unwanted by the government currently in control (read: the empire). Obi-Wan wasn't afraid to provide help to young Luke in the presence of Chewy and Han, nor defend his friends with a lightsaber in a Mos Eisley cantina, but he certainly didn't start talking about it in the face of Stormtroopers (rather, he used The Force to send them away).
There's already so much that's not 'Star Warsy' about this game. I'd love to see a mechanic that's at least a little better. Sure I may be hopping from trainer to trainer to find the one that'll help me, but it's better than just running up and talking about a saber in front of a group of stormies.
EDIT: Since it's been stated a couple times that "only jedi want it to be mysterious", I will qualify my above remarks by saying I do not have a force-sensitive slot open yet, and still stand by them. I look forward to a bit of mystery, and a bit of fun, in doing this. A good example of what's occupying my time lately is the Hermit Quests. Very difficult to find everything, and very rewarding to those that take the time to do it
Message Edited by aradz on 07-11-2004 07:01 PM
I think mysterious is better. Even if a walkthrough is made, there are plenty of players who don't know how to find walthroughs or follow walktroughs to keep numbers down. If its just a simple matter of "find the strange hermet on dantooine and do his four quests to gain force sensitivity" then everyone and their mother will be doing it.
Make it so that you have to find and talk to the correct NPC in the game, any random NPC, to unlock the sensitivity or something. Each player has his own random NPC some where in the cities who will unlock their force sensitivity. something like that anyways.
why? because the whole game is already focused on being or becoming jedi. why trying to make it harder for ppl to reach that kind of endgame, the devs want to have for SWG? just tell the people how do become FS and everybody is fine. get some npcs for that at coronet, theed, bestine starport and mining outpost. the text could sound like :want to become force sensitive?
possible answers: yes! no!
guys...this is NOT a jokeposting. this is my true thinking of the whole system. nobody like the few jedi right now. jedi gettin flamed of posing around...give everybody a jedi and everyone is fine with that.
on the other side. if everyone got a jedi...u dont need to revamp the whole profs combatbalance..only fix jedi bugs, give em more template possibilities and thats it.
again...this is how it should be or even its gonna be...sad but true but thats the way u decided to go, devs.
1. Players are smart, I'd wadger that they'll have it figured out eventually anyway.
2. Keeping secrets where the Jedi are concerned, especially regarding how to become a Jedi, has not gone well for Sony in the past. Let's have a little fun with Jedi for a change instead of anyone obsessing and worrying about it.
I don't mind seeing a few Jedi in the starports if it means people are having fun.