Development Cycle Archive

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Ruh wrote:

However, to counter your agruement. You did in fact join the war, to an extent. You knownly went on the corvette and killed CorSec. From an RP standpoint you should accept the resonsibility that came with that. I know that you dont have all that negatives from killing 1 or maybe even 2 corsecs, in which case you could have stoped and left the Vette. However, you kept going and killing CorSecs, effectively waging a war on them.

You killed CorSecs, now they want your blood.

Just something to think about....

But like i said, i hope they reset all faction point (cept rebel/imperial)or at least negatives ones to 0.

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I agree, and boy did I wish I understood what the Corellian Corvette WAS before plodding up there the first day it got in the game (Music buffed people for 3 hours, made nice cash, then went up with friends).

They want my blood...I just hope getting to my shop in Coronet doesn't become a never-ending nightmare of scans and attacks.

I definitely deserve the ramifications of my actions, however it seems wholly unfair to hold me to my previous faction alliances when it meant an occasional pot shot from a CorSec, rather than scans and potential disaster while making a delivery.

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Dovakic wrote:
This looks very very cool...just one thing that I think needs to be addressed...the rebellions "stronghold" city on tatooine, anchorhead, doesnt have a starport. This would make it impossible (well, not impossible, but very difficult) for rebels to shuttle into tatooine if all the other cities were heavily patroled by imperial npcs. Carebare or not, rebel crafters need a safe place to get to their player cities on tat.

Message Edited by Dovakic on 02-08-2005 02:27 PM

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Calandryll_SOE wrote:

Not sure I understand. The reinforcements are only called if you are a rebel and are scanned in an Imperial controlled city or of you are an Imperial and are scanned in a Rebel controlled city. If you are not a Rebel or an Imperial, reinforcements do not get called on you.

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Hylidex wrote:

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Ruh wrote:

I don't mean to come off harsh with this, but if you are not a combatant, dont join the war. I cant remember all of the changes but isnt there the civilian status you can go to, where you wont have to worry about rebel or imperials "ganking" you since you wont get set "overt" (or PvE Combatant I believe) to the npcs.

But my main response to your complain is...if you cant fight in the war, don't join it.

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Hmmm. There are two messages that are clear in this thread:

1. "This is war. Pick a side or opt out."--Gordon Walton

2. "If you are not a combatant, don't join the war."

Put together, this means there is really no place left for primary crafters in the game. Most of the game content is becoming more and more exclusive to people who have joined a faction. Without faction alignment, you lose out on the majority of game content.

Currently most crafting professions require considerably more SP investment than most combat professions. For example, the actual cost of being a bio-engineer is 135 SP with no vendor. Wanting a machine-type vendor takes 24 more SP. (While a character builder may show BE as requiring 121 SP, it is impossible at present to be a fully practicing MBE without at least Exploration IV). By comparison, a master pistoleer requires 92 SP.

In current practice, combat-stacked professions are far, far more powerful than a typical crafter. Since the occupation forces are geared to take on the combat-stacked players, typical crafters get killed on a regular basis. While sliced armor and weapons may help a crafter survive such an attack, they also increase the probability of being scanned in the first place. Up until now, it has been only rebel crafters. Now it looks as if it will be both factions.

Honestly, I like the changes that are coming about. However, at some point it will be necessary to look at crafters' roles in the game, as they are steadily being squeezed out of more and more content. The real result of this will be more and more crafters turning to combat professions instead.

This affects all of us. If there are no weaponsmiths, then there will be only looted weapons. If there are no merchants, then there will be only the bazaar.

I'm sure there are many viable solutions to this issue. I just don't believe "if you want to be a crafter, don't join the war" is one of them, especially in light of Mr. Walton's statement.

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Seiferr wrote:

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Liani wrote:

I agree with O.....bring this to the big cities.

If Doobie Gerfle changes hands...who cares?

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I think its good that they are staying out of the big cities...so now the smaller cities wont be ghost towns anymore.

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WarlordRhawn wrote:

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Calandryll_SOE wrote:

How powerful [referring to reinforcements called on the Jedi]? Enough to put the Jedi's back into hiding instead of how it is now?
-Depends on the Jedi. But the reinforcements will be pretty powerful.

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Callandryll this is the only part that concerns me a bit. First off how long do these troops stay? I ask because if the Jedi Force runs away and is gone from the area, wouldn't that create an additional obstacle that was not intended for the non-force sensitives to have to deal with? Also you say these are going to be more powerful. Well what about the overt player? Lets say that I want to be a rebel and attack imperial forces in the city... now do Ihave to deal with a jedi encounter??? Where does this end? I mean if someone really wanted to grief the system it seems to me all he/she would have to do is roam the streets and Force run away when the spawn occurs then go to another section and repeat the process.

Soon you have double or triple the original number of defenders meant for the encounter plus added onto the fact these will be high end critters (I suspect you will be putting those absolutely rediculous Corvette spawns in) and the players will be the losers since we will be marginalized and to be frank I don't want to have to fight corvette spawns when I want to take a city with a guild group. I want something truer to star wars and I would much rather you put more emphasis on the player rather then the NPC.

Message Edited by WarlordRhawn on 02-08-2005 12:05 PM

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I understand your point and where you are coming from. But I think the dynamic is a bit different in this new system. Say you have city "Rebel" and city "Imperial", also say you are a Rebel in city "Rebel", an Imperial Jedi (Dark Jedi)strolls thru city "Rebel", spawns a bunch of nasties, and FR3s away. So what?Now you have uber protectors in your city. Any othernon-Jedi enemy faction there shouldn'tbe there in the first place, so now they have to deal with an even more powerful enemy. The only thing the Dark Jedi did was make it harder for the others of his own faction to survive in the enemy controlled territory.

I like it.

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Warryyr wrote:

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Calandryll_SOE wrote:

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Warryyr wrote:

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Ruh wrote:

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Warryyr wrote:

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Telakyte wrote:
So, basically if a town has friendly Special Forces standing around, an onleave individual gets scanned and turned Combatant, Special Forces just watch while he shoots all the neighboring guarding NPCs. So theoritically he and his partners have a field day in enemy controlled cities. Great....really great.

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My thoughts exactly.

What fun is watching some people who got scanned (and their friends) smoke your controlled city of all NPC's? And being totally powerless to do anything about it?

I also think the complete and total LACK of consideration for non-combat players (crafters, entertainers, what have you) to be very shameful. We have no way to defend ourselves from all of this, and it sounds like not only will we be scanned, REINFORCEMENTS show up to give us even LESS of a chance to survive an encounter. I already pity the Armorsmith who makes a vendor run and gets ganked and all his new armor is slightly decayed.

I don't look forward to being a non-combatant in this new system of NPC gankfests. I ended up with negative CorSec faction for going up on the Corellian Corvette once. As it stands now, CorSecs shoot at me every so often, sometimes a few at once. Sounds like I'll get detachments of CorSecs ganking me if I step foot in Coronet Cantina and get scanned. WHAT FUN - can't wait to play some music in there!

What about the non-combatants? Is our new place in this game to just...die for past mistakes before this new system was put in place? Though faction standing was a factor before, it sounds like it's going to be a nightmare now. What a hoot for the non-combatant, and what little fun to have whilejust trying to make a delivery or run your business.

Sorry to rain on the Combat people's parade, but there are lots of us who can barely handle a CDEF pistol. Think what you want of us, but we're not Combat people, and before this change was announced, it seemed like a viable way to play SWG.

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I don't mean to come off harsh with this, but if you are not a combatant, dont join the war. I cant remember all of the changes but isnt there the civilian status you can go to, where you wont have to worry about rebel or imperials "ganking" you since you wont get set "overt" (or PvE Combatant I believe) to the npcs.

But my main response to your complain is...if you cant fight in the war, don't join it.

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I NEVER JOINED A WAR.

I am neutral. Never once did I mention specificallyI would get ganked by any member of the Rebellion or the Empire. Those are NOT the only 2 factions that will affect these changes...people need to understand this.

I have faction rankings for various NPC's. One visit to the Corellian Corvette has put me at negative CorSec faction. I will therefore be unable to stand anywhere in Coronet once this system goes in, for deliveries, for business, for pleasure, for playing music/buffing in Coronet Cantina, etc. I will be scanned and I will be attacked, and reinforcements will be called on me, all while the only weapon I possess is a freakin' Slitherhorn.

This is not about the war. I want nothing to do with the war. I am just trying to run a business in this game.

This is about factional NPC's ganking me, just as I explained it, and just as Callandryl laid out in the thread. Please re-read and you will see what I mean. This is NOT just Rebel vs. Imperial, this is EVERY single NPC that has a faction attached to it, depending on the controlled city you entered.

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Not sure I understand. The reinforcements are only called if you are a rebel and are scanned in an Imperial controlled city or of you are an Imperial and are scanned in a Rebel controlled city. If you are not a Rebel or an Imperial, reinforcements do not get called on you.

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Allow me to clarify myconcern -from your post:

"The neutral police forces are loyal to the faction that controls the planet and some will conduct scans of passers by. The police will be searching for contraband such as illegal spices and sliced weapons (regardless of faction) or enemy agents and will fine or attack as appropriate. Running away from a scan will continue to have the same effects (loss of faction). High ranking members of factional armies will be safe from scans if their faction controls that planet.

Players who are scanned by the police run the risk of having their faction exposed if they are in the opposing faction of the one that controls the city. This means players who are “on leave” may become set to “combatant” due to the scan. Faction NPCs will then attack the player on sight. Police may also call in more powerful reinforcements should they expose an enemy faction player. "

Please clarify "enemy agent" and "enemy faction player." They are far too ambiguous of terms, and that is what is confusing me.

As it stands, from the above description - i get scanned by CorSec (loyal to Rebels, let's say). I have negative CorSec faction. I am an "enemy agent" to them. They attack. They exposed an enemy faction player through their scan, and call reinforcements against me.

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Calandryll_SOE wrote:

Got a couple more answers from the Dev. Team:

Why are Imperial forces attacking Dark Jedi?
The Empire has a campaign against all Jedi. The soldiers of the Empire have no knowledge of what differences there are between Dark & Light Jedi. There is nothing to indicate that the Emperor and Vader want Dark Jedi around.

What is the reasoning for allowing high ranking faction members to avoid scans?
High ranking officers aren’t going to be scanned by their own army, but they will be scanned by the opposing army. This isn’t anything new. We haven’t touched the code or the percentages at all. The only difference is that now, Rebel officers are protected from Rebel scans.

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Hylidex wrote:

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Ruh wrote:

I don't mean to come off harsh with this, but if you are not a combatant, dont join the war. I cant remember all of the changes but isnt there the civilian status you can go to, where you wont have to worry about rebel or imperials "ganking" you since you wont get set "overt" (or PvE Combatant I believe) to the npcs.

But my main response to your complain is...if you cant fight in the war, don't join it.

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Hmmm. There are two messages that are clear in this thread:

1. "This is war. Pick a side or opt out."--Gordon Walton

2. "If you are not a combatant, don't join the war."

Put together, this means there is really no place left for primary crafters in the game. Most of the game content is becoming more and more exclusive to people who have joined a faction. Without faction alignment, you lose out on the majority of game content.

Currently most crafting professions require considerably more SP investment than most combat professions. For example, the actual cost of being a bio-engineer is 135 SP with no vendor. Wanting a machine-type vendor takes 24 more SP. (While a character builder may show BE as requiring 121 SP, it is impossible at present to be a fully practicing MBE without at least Exploration IV). By comparison, a master pistoleer requires 92 SP.

In current practice, combat-stacked professions are far, far more powerful than a typical crafter. Since the occupation forces are geared to take on the combat-stacked players, typical crafters get killed on a regular basis. While sliced armor and weapons may help a crafter survive such an attack, they also increase the probability of being scanned in the first place. Up until now, it has been only rebel crafters. Now it looks as if it will be both factions.

Honestly, I like the changes that are coming about. However, at some point it will be necessary to look at crafters' roles in the game, as they are steadily being squeezed out of more and more content. The real result of this will be more and more crafters turning to combat professions instead.

This affects all of us. If there are no weaponsmiths, then there will be only looted weapons. If there are no merchants, then there will be only the bazaar.

I'm sure there are many viable solutions to this issue. I just don't believe "if you want to be a crafter, don't join the war" is one of them, especially in light of Mr. Walton's statement.

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