Development Cycle Archive
Thread: AT-ST changes on Test Center
total crap TH... total crap
So as an Imperial Major.. all I can have out is ONE stormtrooper?
a master Ch could have 3 pets AND 3 faction pets.. no? at one point that was how it worked..
Now I can have out my mount.. and thats it.. no stormtrooper.. nothing.. then i HAVE to build a camp to switch mount to tropper.. so I gues EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE SCOUT NOW?
Stop the insanity... I want to get off
- BloodfinIMO, no Rebel has the right to post in this thread, because it's only going to be one-sided. Does it SHOCK you that nearly all Rebels are saying "WOO, GOOD CHANGE!" Playing this game is like watching Fox News - dissenting viewpoints get drowned out by the throng.
Quit caving to the whiners, devs. Your game is addictive enough that they'll keep paying whilst whining. Why not be more like OTHER gaming companies and IGNORE your playerbase instead of caving to the masses? AT-STs are MEANT to have heavy armor, and fire does NOTHING to heavily armored targets IRL. If you aren't going to adhere to CANON, at least adhere to LOGIC.
Having an AT-ST (was) the hallmark of being Imperial. It meant you accomplished something. Now it's gonna be a joke - a mere ornamental setpiece only good against NPCs. Good going.
If you do this, there better be goddamned AT-ATs coming, and they better be **edit** near invincible against people on foot, AS IT SHOULD BE.
D7: Probably not - the Rebels would just start saying that the devs are giving us an "unfair advantage" by refunding our FP for these useless hunks of crap (you laugh NOW). The devs refund NOTHING, it seems, so we all wasted our FP when we COULD have been setting up bases all over the place creating safer environments for Imperials.
Now pretty much it'd be better to spend money on Dark Troopers, and the greedy holo whoring Rebels in MY neck of the woods on Corellia would absof**king LOVE that.
I hope SOE gets a game with 99% rebels and 1% imperials so EVERYONE stops playing due to lack of interest.
I am a Rebel on some servers, an Imperial on others so...
I feel that these changes are bad...at least some of them.
The way SOE did the factions is half-assed. The AT-STs (as much as I hate being killed by one) should be completely way to powerfull for one person or a small group to kill. Commandos are way to overpowered here. AT-STs should not burn, they should only be damaged by blast (grenades).
AT-STs should NOT be able to take out every Rebel in an NPC REBEL OUTPOST! Last night I was cloning in the clone center and this crack baby had his AT-ST in the clone center picking off newly cloned Rebels. Pets (all pets) should not be allowed in buildings (ALL buildings). And REBEL (or IMPERIAL) owned NPC towns should have a large very powerfull militia that should take ALOT to kill and re-pops extremely quickly.(should be **edit** near impossible like DAoC at the Portal Keeps). This would prevent people with a powerfull faction pet from camping a town that is not owned by their faction. That is just very unrealistic.
KaylBreinhar wrote:
IMO, no Rebel has the right to post in this thread, because it's only going to be one-sided. Does it SHOCK you that nearly all Rebels are saying "WOO, GOOD CHANGE!" Playing this game is like watching Fox News - dissenting viewpoints get drowned out by the throng.
Im a Rebel. I know ur pissed about this change. My opinions have not been one sided for the rebels. I want to see the game improved and become fun. Right now I think Imperials are being shafted. They should give the rebels a run for their money.
Just so u know, I do think that everyone should be limited to 1 atst. I think they should be powerful and hard to take down. I had a lot of fun one night in coronet defending it from Imperial players. They finally got someone to bring an atst in and the tide turned. We had to call for reinforcements. That night was fun, but it was way back in september before commandos found their use.
The devs have alot of work to do. I may rant and throw out ideas and opinions, but I know that they also need patience from all of us in getting it done. My only complaint now is that they have not responed to this topic and acknowledged what we are all saying.
TH WHERE ARE YOU?!?!
Thank you, RavX - good to know there ARE some Rebels out there who understand these are TANKS and as such SHOULD be hard to kill.
Now, since I've calmed down a bit:
1. CH stature should have nothing to do with controlling faction pets. As others have stated, it should be tied to rank and rank alone. If you want to nerf AT-STs, make it so only a COMMISSIONED OFFICER RANK can purchase/command them. Make this true for Dark Troopers as well. A Sgt. commanding a tank's movement or elite soldiersdoesn't compute. Encouraging more people to become CHes is pandering to the most popular class, pure and simple. Making it so only a Captain or above could command them makes it HARDER to be able to get them (i.e. it takes more FP in the grand scheme to make it to a commissioned [i.e. OFFICER] rank than it does to buy a single AT-ST). Leave them the way they are - let people earn the RANK before they're able to buy these.
2. I'm an Imperial Master Commando. Through a glitch once, I was able to take out a spawning AT-ST. My 3900dmg rocket launcher hit for over 6000 each time it hit (and one shot hit for 7100). I also hit it with Flamesingle2 to see the damage, and it's the FS2 that eventually killed it. If anything, ditch the goddamned Flame DOT vulnerability and make rocket launchers more powerful and cost maybe a 1/4 less HAM to fire on average - god knows they SHOULD be for such a pain in the a** it is to craft them. If you want to take down an AT-ST, bring riflemen or commandos - pure and simple. A TKM should NOT be able to kill a TANK by punching and kicking it. Player-owned AT-STs come out only in large engagements anyway, and any Rebel party staring down one of these should have at least one commando in them - if not, OH WELL, Infantry vs. tank = tank winning. If you don't like it, tough...it's war, and it's common sense. (And here come the "FU IT'S A GAME NOT A WAR LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" replies, probably)
3. Make them repairable through purchasable faction "mechanics" located at player/guild-owned bases. This would encourage Imperial unity, something we SORELY need since we number so few in the grand scheme of things. If this is a social game, start trying to encourage UNITY amongst the factions.
4. Only having one AT-ST out at a time I can stomach. I don't LIKE it, but hey, the more that are out, the more you're likely to lose. I think every Imperial could live with only being able to have one out at a time, but only if they're worth having out to BEGIN with.
5. Right now AT-STs only have an energy attack. The little rotary cylinder on the side is a MISSILELAUNCHER. Give them two kinds of attacks - blast damage should give them more advantage against the massive numbers of Rebel CHes with GMs and Rancors. AT-STs are supposed to be fearsome battlefield entities. Infantry without the tools to destroy tanks that stand their ground DIE, pure and simple - this is NOT Rock, Paper, Scissors, it's common freaking sense.
6. I concur that they shouldn't be usable indoors...but that's a glitch in the game, and before you knock us for using AT-STs indoors, tell your Master CH friends to stow their **edit** Rancors and GMs before doing the same to US.
7. Give us our goddamned AT-ATs and ungate higher ranks (since onlya rankhigher than Colonel SHOULD be able to command AT-STs - since Colonel Veers can)- make rank WORTH something. That's something EVERYONE can agree with, Rebel OR Imperial.
Trezier, I am one rebel who completely agrees with you! I enjoy the proper challenge of an ATST battle that I know will take many rebels to detroy. What is the point, otherwise?
The empire rules by extreme machines, not by fair and balanced pets.
I have laughed many a time while me and my fellow rebels were slaughtered by a couple ATSTs. Its the point behind the game. The commandos extreme power over the ATST needs to be removed. Simplest solution? Get rid of the flamethrower! I hate nerfs as much as the next player, but seriously, a weapon that can pull 7K damage per melee and continues to damage the target after the shot is fired is ridiculous in such a simple HAM system. Either that or make the ATST's almost immune to fire. 
This is supposed to be an incredibly tough machine to fight.
Of course, on the flip-side it would be cool if there was a way rebels could steal one *temporarily*, if it gets knocked down. That would make it seem a little more like the films. Rebels can't and shouldn't be able to win in flat out combat, but rather must rely on trickery.
Bluefire: without the FT Commandos would be stuck with just a Launcher pistol and a still-broken Heavy Acid Rifle for general combat. The limited-use heavy weapons make us an even sweeter target since we have to kneel, fire, and then wait about an average of 4 seconds before being able to stand up again. Additionally, rocket launchers take an ENORMOUS amount of HAMand are only advisable for mass use when HEAVILY buffed in ALL stats. As for grenades, they're worthless except for tossing into groups of pets on your groupmates, and ALSO cost enormous amounts in HAM to use...when in truth, how much strength does it take to press a button or PULL A PIN? 1/8 of my HAM pool? Please...
Eliminating the FT would completely invalidate Commando as a profession altogether. And the burning DOT makes sense - the thing is firing napalm/concentrated flammable liquids- and they burn for a LONG time.
The only way I'd ever concur with the removal of the FT is if something were to be added that truly fit the commando moniker - I'm thinking T21 (or new model name, I don't care)*Assault* Rifle. Heavy AP, high speed, medium-range, energy based weapon. Commandos in the real world don't pack FTs - they pack weapons like this. I'd WELCOME this change.
Even better, make the assault rifle a kinetic-based weapon with Heavy AP. And if the code permits, allow "powerups" (or "magazines") to it to allow different types of damage - Blast to simulate HE shells being used, Heat to simulate incendiary rounds...maybe even Acid to simulate chemical rounds. Who knows - this is advanced tech we're dealing with.
I'd like to hear opinions on this, both supporting and dissenting.
OK, lets dissect this point by point.
Thunderheart stated that the ability to control three pets is a Creature Handler perk and that allowing anyone to have three pets is making the Creature Handler's ability no longer a perk.I know some of you are used to having three pets out, but the reason Creature Handlers are being re-balanced is because players can get the combat benefits of the Creature Handler Tree for the skill point cost of 2 trees (essentially all the benefit for half the skill point price) and having three pets out is a major perk for Creature Handlers.
Alright, this is a flat out failure torepresentthe very system he is trying to correct. Point blank, its a lie. As a Rebel Master Creature Handler I can command seven (7) pets at the same time.
3 Faction pets, 3 Creature Pets, and 1 Droid.
My perk of three creature pets is NOT at risk by allowing anyone to use three Faction troops. This is GROSS misrepresentation of the facts.
Also, let me put to you that your efforts to prevent dabbler creature handlers will now be rendered moot by those who now take CH and only the Management tree to get that second pet slot and that is all. Nice work contradicting yourself.
Thunderheart stated that allowing the use of three Faction pets was allowing some classes to have advantages that were not in line with the intended design of their profession. For example, Teras Kasi Artists and all melee combatants commit themselves to the challenge of playing a short-range game on a playing field where most of the advantages are long-range. Crafters commit their skill points to crafting disciplines and are at a greater risk while searching for resources in the wild and maintaining their harvesters.
Thunderheart, the whole idea behind pets is adding to our abilities. Surgical droids increase the efficiency of our medicine's use. They allow us to heal wounds without being in a hospital environment. Many allow us to craft without being near a crafting station. Pets allow us to engage tougher and more dangerous opponents, even for non-CHs, than we could without them. Some pets allow us to travel faster and more safely than ever before. Faction pets are no different, they are aides in our daily game routines that give us ability beyond that which we can do alone. By your reasoning, no non-CH mount should have any ability to attack when the player is dismounted, after all, it may or may not be an ability the player owner otherwise has. Your logic here is akin to sayingnon-combatants should not wear armor because it prevents them from taking the damage they were otherwise intended to absorb themselves.
Thunderheart stated that the ability to use multiple pets should be the result of an investment in a profession. If everyone can do it, then its not a perk. The reasoning is that if you really want to have and control three pets, a player should make a commitment to the profession.
Foolish. The ability to command troops in a military organization is a representation of our advancement in our respective military service. Command of troops is tied to rank, not profession. Take the recent Iraq War and the situation with Private Jessica Lynch. Hers was a maintenance unit, yet there were still combat troops attached to it for security. It was NOT a heavy fighting unit, nor was it intended to be, but it still had some fighting ability. You've read in these posts more than enough testimony that Faction pets are not ubercombat machines, they are a modest amount of additional security at best. Your arguement here is a red herring. When we use Faction pets, we are overt. We are on active duty to our respective militaries and due the level of additional security that is meritted by the additional risk we take by being overt and subject to PvP at any time.
DB22 wrote:
By making the armor lighter, the AT-ST will be even more useless in PvP than it is now. Imps won't bring them out now because commandos take them out solo. That's the balance that should be addressed! You shouldn't be allowed to be incapped over and over by the rebels while they kill your AT because you can't give it orders or store it.
As I read this, it appears to say the balance that should be addressed is that a high-powered (and costly)imperial faction pet should be able to withstand a hammering from a commando. Are there any rebel faction pets that can withstand a hammering from a commando? I do believe that imperials are permitted to become commandos themselves, no? Seems to me, the base factors here are balanced.
I doubt very much that imperial players willagree withmy entire point of view, here, but my feeling has always been:
- AT-ST's ought to be much more powerful than they are. At the very least, harder to kill.
- AT-ST's should not be player-controlled. Or at least, not as permanent pets. I think you ought to pay faction points for a certain amount of time with an AT-ST following you around, butmaking its own AI decisions about what to attack and when. Once your time is up, it returns to base.
We didn't see AT-ST's following pedestrian officers in the movies, and my sense of Star-Warsyness is jolted when I see them humbly tagging along behinda pedestrianin the game. I definitely want them in the game, and I think they should be more sturdy, just not on leashes.
IMO, no Rebel has the right to post in this thread, because it's only going to be one-sided. Does it SHOCK you that nearly all Rebels are saying "WOO, GOOD CHANGE!" Playing this game is like watching Fox News - dissenting viewpoints get drowned out by the throng.
No rebels can post in this thread? Thank you Captain Totalitarianism!
I think youre right especially since Im not a rebel and not a CH!
Wait... can you smell that?
Ya.. thats sarcasm!
These changes affect CH too, and I think its ok. I think that the AT ST should be weak as hell as well.
Look... You Imps have something we cannot compare to here, the AT ST. The ONE thng we can effectivelykill them with is the commando DOT.
But you are all about crying to the devs to take that away from us, then you come here and tell us we whine too much when the devs try to balance out the problem.
Pretty funny if you ask me!
Hypocrites.
I hope the devs leave the HAM at 9k and take away AT ST armor completely lol!
I post on page 14 a way to make the game play and factional pets more compatible.
PvP should not be Imp dominated just because of the story line. This is a game and should be equally enjoyable by both sides of the war.
Right now it isnt.
Think about it, what will Imps do when (if this sticking so closely to the the story line business keeps up) are out on your asses and the Rebs are all members of the New Republic hunting you down with broke ass carbines and worn out trooper armor in the desert and you have NO back up?
All we will hear is how unfair the game has become!
PvP is unbalanced and claiming storyline crap is BS, and you all know it.
Personally even after this 'fix' the AT ST may as well be a god to me cause I still wont be able to scratch one as Im no commando.
You guys are only crying cause Krayts and Force users will be able to wipe out your AT STs and no more slol adventures for you.
So shut your holes and try to be constructive for once! If you dont like whats offered, offer a suggestion instead.. I havent read all of these posts but all I see is Rebel bashing and nothing good coming from your side except increasingly creative lame excuses as to why you should be able to whip our asses and we should just shut up and take it.
At least I offered an idea as to how to make game play a bit fairer. Which is what it SHOULD be in order for both sides to be enjoyable to play in PvP.
I mean really.... has anything worth mentioning in any of the storylines ever occured outside of the catnina in Dearic when 2 no name opposing factional members duked it out?
Nope, and I think that since we WILL NOT affect the outcome of the story that the PvP should be more concerned with fairplay than with this 'the Empire is better' mentality.
