Development Cycle Archive
Thread: AT-ST changes on Test Center
probably just wasting my time. have no clue whether or not peoples 2 cents mean a thing. would like to say however, all you people that cry that you can't take on a at-st solo, first off, you arn't supposed to that is why you are called the rebels. It takes a team to take one out. I will agree that i dont think regular weapons do enough damage to them. but a comando easily taking one out is crazy. takes the point out of team play for the whole of the game. I got my first at-st and thought it was cool. after losing it 10 minutes after getting it sucked. couldn't heal it in battle. having it set on fire. watching it die so quickly made me not want to get another one. Just wanted to stick with dark troopers. Now they say one faction pet a per player if they arn't a ch makes no sense. after reading almost every reply here i would agree that doing it by rank would be best. would give people a clue your dedication to your side. Im sure everyone has gone to do a mission at one time or another and been overmatched, went to run away and while being chased ran through a base on your side and got support. It would be cool to actually have your own little army trailing you. As far as the pve, i think it would absolutely suck if you were going to do a mission and some totally strong creature detect and attack you and your little army set there and say "your on your own buddy" as is i get tired of getting knocked out and my troopers stand by and watch me get slain. my non ch pet usually comes to my aid if something happens more then troopers. well good luck to all, hope they figure something out soon. all these changes "threats" just to try to please both sides is getting tiresome.
I do understand the problem they face though. it is all a matter of making the most people happy which is the rebels from my understanding. they have to keep the majority happy. and as long as people post saying this sucks i got killed by a at-st they are too strong they will have to keep changing something untill they realize, hmmm well they are supposed to be human not gods. I dont think one person should be able to take on a at-st, or a graul, or rancor. remember the whole point in this game. TEAM
I think most PLAYERS (caps on players, not imperial not rebel, PLAYERS, aka: CLIENTS) agree with the SOME of the changes
AT-ST for faction missions only: Agree 100%
AT-ST less armor, more hitpoints and only Fire DOT's can penetrate: I think its to early to tell if this is good or bad. However there is one thing that SOE must keep in mind, AT-ST is powerfull but everybody knows its a hard to get perk and it can be perma-death and cannot be repaired. This must be balanced, no Imperial will risk losinga AT-ST in a PvP battle since its so hard to get and it cant be repaired, and since Imperial are outnumbered you must change this for the good of the GCW.
1 AT-ST per player: Agree 100%BUTwhy are Creature Handlers able to use 3? (AT-ST likes boofa treats?)
TC you said and I quote: " In the wake of this change, any factioned Imperial who is not a Creature Handler will only be able to have one pet (...)"
TC please explain to me why a Imperial Creature Handler with the rank of Corporal can have 3 Stormtropers running around following him (one named Toby the other one is Leapy and lets not forget Beethoven) and a...Imperial Squad Leader (for example) with the rank of Colonel can only have Stormtroper VK-210 following him ??? why the heck do you have ranks ??? didn't the devs miss something here ???Use the ranks!!! they should be good for something (IMHO).
I must be honest, althought I am insome waysnew to SWG , I am not new to MMORPG's and I am a huge fan of PvP . I know PvP is very hard to balance...players tend to join the stronger side and/or just climbthat "Uber" combat professions and in the end everybody loses because it seems like every single dayone side pounds the other to the ground battle after battle, and only a very few get a kick out of this situation.
I rather have a great battlethat lasts hours than a massacre 100 to 30 that lasts five minutes and where I get to say: "well at I think I was able to shootattwo of them." , and I am sorry to say but by the look of things this is exactly whats going to happen if youguys persist in taking the AT-ST out of PvP , and to those rebels that are saying "Yupiiii" , you will be saying the opposite thing in times to come when you find yourselves dueling flesh eatingchubas, because there arent enought Imps to fight in PvP ...and since they dont have the firepower to match the numbers...why bother ?
Note: I play Imp on Bloodfin and rebel on Lowca.
this forum really needs the EDIT button.
Where I wrote TC i meant TH
And may the boofa treat be with us. (Ooops I meant the force)
Deathwalker666 wrote:
here is a small idee as a rebel take 9415 FP and line up what you can have as pets (I know you can't in game not anought pet slots
but use paper or your mindseys if you can ).
See it ?
Now turn (the paper) around and look at me and my 1 AT-ST !!
This is the real point the 1 AT-ST represense all this firepower and manpower and gets killed with 1 to 2 shots in 30 sec.
If the AT-ST gets killed in one or two shots (which I haven't ever seen any proof of - bring the screenshots) then our troopers would not last one shot.
So your 1 AT-ST that lasts for 30 seconds wouldn't be much more of a loss than 20 of our troops (450 * 20 = 9000) who would last what, 1 second each according to your 1 shot scenario. So 20 of our troops would last about 1 minute maybe (counting time between shots) I don't see the huge difference.
If your 18k HAM (or 9k or whatever) AT-ST is uselss then what do you call a troop with 4k HAM?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining... I don't think we should have anything huge. We are the underdog ragtag Rebels. It's just hard to feel sorry for the Imperials when they already have an advantage and it's getting more HAM and 100% resistances to certain types of damage.
Mordib1 wrote:
As any intelligent person would point out to you (since you seem to not fall in that category), I am going under the assumption that they will eventually make factional bases or some factional perk in the future worthwhile to buy. Thus my demand of refunding the factional points of a now useless AT-ST.
Have a nice day.
No need to get rude. We are just debating. I never said you were not intelligent because you can't realize that when something gets thousands of HAM added and higher resistances to the common forms of damage it shouldn't be considered a nerf. Besides I'm sure you'll just bitch because factional bases are probably worthless to you too. (because they can get destroyed - boo hoo)
How rude!
Ha! The point of a war machine that only kills in factional missions is that the war is only against the other faction, not random creatures and NPCs you run across.
Mouserpg wrote:
What's the **edit** point to have a war machine that only kills on faction missions? There's already very little point to doing faction missions as it is... unless you want an AT-ST.
Look Devs (not that any of you read this), it's clear you are going to nerf the ATST into oblivion and drive more players over to the Rebel faction. How about giving those of us who worked hard for our ATSTs a faction point refund for the ones we have. The ATSTis not what it was when we spent an ungodly amount of faction for them.
To avoid exploits, you could do it like this:
1. On patch, all ATSTs are removed from each players datapad and replaced with their cost in faction points.
2. Those who still want an ATST can go to a recruiter and repurchase one.
Personally I don't really care so much about the AT_ST. What bothers me is the CH being the only one to have more than one regular trooper or whatever the Rebel equivalent is. These are all I use, usually only one or two. I've never even considered buying an AT-ST, I never call all three faction pets out, but feel I should be able to command more than one trooper. When I get one of these I'm not asked if I want a pet, it's personel support. I know the basic concept is the same.
If I'm an officer and I am in charge of my squad of troopers, they should defend me if I am attacked. It would make no sense for them not to. The only time I don't fight factioned mobs is when I am jumped. So that part I can live with as well except that they won't protect their commanding officer when ambushed.
Sure three AT-ST is overkill and opens people up to kill things they probably shouldn't alone. I do agree with only being able to have one of these out. I quit CH because I didn't like it too much. Now it just seems you devs want everyone to be a CH. I mean it's the only way people will be able to compete is by being a CH. There are so many running around right now with multiplegrauls and what-noteveryone might as well be a CH.
I'm not bashing the CH and I've stuck up for them on numerous occasions because I think they've gotten screwed over and again andare always the center of useless whines and rants. This will just make people hate them even more. Hell even I'm starting to with this bit of news. They already have the best mounts and the best pets(if you take the big clunking machines out) and that's fine with me. I almost am starting to regret starting my account back up last week after a two month vacation from the SW universe.
I seriously think with the Imperials being outnumbered like they are we should be able to have more than one trooper without having to be a freaking CH. Otherwise we all might as well be Rebel CH.
This Thread is far too valid to not be bumped consistently for DIRECT DEV answers and views. TH must hear us all out, for good or bad, and reply to our questions and ideas.
The AT-ST issue is ongoing. It's been hit with the NERF stick alot. Some of the nerfs have been warranted, some have not. From all these replies I get the following:
Factional Pet use should be parrallel with Factional Rank. Being a CH should have NO INFLUENCE on it whatsoever. If you are a CH, bring out your pets... but I'll be damned if you should get the right to /trick an AT-ST or three(Figuratively people). EVERYONE agree's rank is the way to go with this... and whether it's harder to implement than the "CH OWNS ALL PETS" method is irrelevant. Do what makes sense and balances, not what's easiest for you! Take the time to put in the suggestion used by hundreds of us over the months on this board.... A rank faction points system. An ST costs 5 RFP, an ATST 50 a future ATAT 100. And have Rank be the limit of RFP available. Say a private gets 5RFP Cap and a Colonel gets 100RFP. Also to avoid the Colonel with 20 ST's behing him... put a cap on how many pets each rank can get. Say a colonel can get a total of 5 ST tops.. or 2 ST's and 1 ATST, or 1 ST and 1 ATAT, this is very general but you get the idea. This is the most solid way to do this. It gives us a reason for rank and benefits those who fight for FP's. Catering to the highly chosen CH profession isn't the way to do it.
PVE Faction removal was a good idea. In general this promotes good things. Factional missions and PVP. Well it would, if the pets were balanced right. The Commano issue is almost ridiculous. Wait, it is ridiculous. I idea that one or two special HAM shots from ONE COMMANDOcan cripple a faction pet that took so much time to get is insane. I agree wholeheartedly... this needs to be addressed and quick. I'm almost shocked it's been untouched this long. ONE COMMANDO can literally wipe out your ATST and you (if you yourself arent a COMMANDO) in one or two fights. If it isn't fixed, we don't bring them out in PVP, and with NO PVE, it becomes Factional Mission Farmer. How bad does this hurt the GCW? Well with the other balance issues and the lopsidedness... it CRIPPLES it. I for one would like this whole system to stop being so GRAY. Nothing will ever be Equal... so lets stop pretending. The best you can do is balance... make high points for each group. So I guess what I'm really asking is this: What is the possible Beni's from being an IMP if these changes stick and it stays as it is now? Tell me please. I NEED TO KNOW!
I'm so sick of the "Well our Pets aren't nearly as good as your ATST, so stop whining." YOU AREN'T SUPPOSE TO BE! YOU ARE A REBEL!
Rebel- To refuse allegiance to and oppose by force an ESTABLISHED GOVERNMENT or RULING AUTHORITY!
IMP'S ARE THE AUTHORITY! WE ARE WHAT THE GALAXY IS! Our Perks should be higher. But I also agree you should have more for your side besides the huge numbers. More of, what some consider small, stuff helps alot. Like outfits, Factional weapons... armor, etc. The small choices and differences go a loooong way.
It's great the ATST will be a vehicle in the future, but destroying the GCW up until then doesn't help any cause. So in closing:
Rank=Meaning. ATST=Not getting OWN3D by COMMANDO's and NOT OWN3NING the environmental challenges itself. If you persist to let an ATST get manhandled as much as it goes in PVP, make it repairable and give some love to a feeble class... like a DE boost perhaps because they can repair them(I'm not a DE or ever have been, just see alot of heartache for them)
tuinal wrote:
Matsubaa wrote:
I personally stopped going Overt for a long time because at the time, the AT-ST was utterly invincible. To go up against it, or any player wielding it, meant death. There was no question about it whatsoever and people were joining the Imperial faction not because of roleplay but because they just wanted to be able to take the AT-ST and go slaughter NPCs and PCs alike, earning millions upon millions of credits in the process. It wasn't a tool of the Empire, it was the ultimate meta-game griefing tool. The economy is *still* reeling from that influx of cash and lots of people *still* won't go Overt because of the precedent that was set. The Imperials were unbeatable and judging from the whining and crying on the boards, they thought that's the way it should be. Not that we should be two sides in a massive conflict but that Rebels should be gnats to be swatted. It was as-if they, as players, fell for the Emperor's propaganda.
So please, Devs, don't make the AT-ST easy to kill. Don't make it impossible to kill either. Don't make it the one-shot, one-kill monster that it was, but don't make it useless.
So... you're saying people joined the empire because they wanted an easy route to power? Y'see, to me this makes perfect sense from a realism/roleplay point of view. People didn't join the alliance because of the faction perks in the movie, yet in the game they want to both be a rebel hero, yet also be on an even footing with the empire. They say they want realism, imperials patrolling in the streets, and a sense of the galaxy been held in an iron grip, but they also want to win every PvP encounter they choose to participate in.
Currently,the empire isn't really an easy route to power, since creature handler pets do a similar job as an AT-ST, and don't take 2 weeks to earn or die permanently in 60 seconds to a flame dot.
I'd rather see an obvious incentive for players to join the empire, since they really should be winning PvP in general if this is supposed to feel anything like the movies. Rebels should be beating a hasty retreat when spotted rather than controlling whole cities. You didn't see Han and Chewie going to stand outside theemperor's front door and kill dark troopers for 6 weeks.It would befair, because anyone can choose or change their faction.
This comes down to strategic action and fun factor.
Is it fun to play in a pre-determined universe where your actions mean nothing? Not at all. This is what we are facing is balancing the on screen vision of Star Wars vs. what is actually fun to play. We *could* recreate the movie reality down to the last little speck, but how much fun would that be? You'd come online, say your line and watch the scene play out *if* you were one of the lucky 15 or so players who got a speaking part. As it is, we can let the Empire win every battle *except* the key ones which we don't get to play, in effect *every* battle in-game. We can let the Rebels win every battle and utterly defy the movie version of Star Wars. Or we can let them stand toe to toe on their own merits, fight strategic battles where power matters less than careful planning.
The fact that the Empire has the AT-ST demands that the Rebels have some answer to it. They would not, as so many Imperials suggest, simply give up as soon as one arrived on the battlefield. There would be a plan of action, specialized protocols or even weapons which were engineered with the intent of destroying the AT-ST because it does pose such a threat. Given that it was the one-shot, one-kill invincible aim-bot in the original incarnation, something needed to be done. *No* Rebel could take them on with a reasonable chance of success. No number of Rebels could take them on, but Imperials were free to bring up to 3 of them per actual player on the battlefield. The Imperial presence is established by intrusiveness, their power established by thousands upon thousands of Stormtroopers which we have seen in action. Similar to ants, any single Stormtrooper isn't a threat, but you never see *one* Stormtrooper, do you?
The Empire made their initial wins by shady backroom dealings and expanded their power to include the oppresive, scarypresence of their troops in every corner of the galaxy "keeping the peace". They didn't win because they were the best at blowing crap up, they won because nobody wanted to stand against them.
Again, I suggest changing the faction system, especially in regards to new players. Everyone should start covert Imperial. Those same people who master pistoleer because they started with a CDEF pistol in their inventory will grow up to be Imperial. This will beef up the Empire's numbers without imbalancing actual combat in their favor. It would force the Rebels into shifting to strategic combat rather than the fragfests that the combat would be now if enough people were PvP. This will also force Neutrals to be the relatively rare thing they should be. Anyone who doesn't oppose the Empire is essentially a covert or tacit Imperial, otherwise you're a Criminal and might as well be a Rebel.