Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
Fastbond
Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:12 am
#378
Known, please. But somehow individual. Maybe different final quests.
Danborg
Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:26 am
#379
JustG wrote:
(Now with 75% more info!)
There are many stages in the path to becoming a Jedi...
The first among them is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive you can choose to continue on the path to becoming a Jedi or not. The path to becoming a Jedi will be a long and dangerous one.
Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.
My question has to do with the step before all of this... with how you actually become Force Sensitive.
The question to continue discussing is this:
Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive (not the path from Force Sensitivity to Jedi) be a mysterious, unknown mechanic orone that is visible and known to everyone?
Thanks for the continued feedback!!
No more mysterious unknown mechanics please! The whole reason Jedi are now going to be quest based is because the previous hologrinding system was so bad and unhealthy for the game. Let's not trade in one old problem and create a new one.
I think you should concentrate on making the Jedi quests harder, and not wasting alot of dev effort on the force sensitivity stuff.
Thank you,
Danbacca
Wanderhome
MisterWizard
Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:28 am
#380
If you want a proliferation of Jedi make it a known path. Otherwise, make it mysterious.
Then again I think the stage has been set for the renaming: Star Wars Galaxies: The Jedi Take Over...
Clearly I support it being mysterious, andvery difficult...
- b
AloraElon
Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:42 am
#381
JustG wrote:
(Now with 75% more info!)
There are many stages in the path to becoming a Jedi...
The first among them is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive you can choose to continue on the path to becoming a Jedi or not. The path to becoming a Jedi will be a long and dangerous one.
Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.
My question has to do with the step before all of this... with how you actually become Force Sensitive.
The question to continue discussing is this:
Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive (not the path from Force Sensitivity to Jedi) be a mysterious, unknown mechanic orone that is visible and known to everyone?
Thanks for the continued feedback!!
Force sensitivity should be a known path, and should be done by following non-combat quests.
Please make sure that ALL characters, including non-combat characters can do all steps needed to awaken force-sensitivity. None of the steps to force sensitivity should require any combat. For example, I know some crafters with zero fighting skills will want to get the force powers that improve the results of crafting experimentation.
jlbertra
Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:52 am
#382
There's no way it should be known.
If it was a completely known thing, we'd have even more Jedi running around in no time. Make it a mystery.
If it was a completely known thing, we'd have even more Jedi running around in no time. Make it a mystery.
Syraxen
Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:52 am
#383
The Mystery of the lame 'last profession' idea was a nightmare, I dont want a repeat of anything like that. So the question is, how do you add mystery to a game without making things totally random, well i dont think you can really or at least it will be very difficult.
What i would suggest for force sensitivity would be sort of a journey, a long quest, you would begin by speaking to a certain npcand they would guide you so to not having it completely random, through this quest you would learn about old jedi's and the way things used to be, then he would give you tasks to do, help this person help that person, sort of like the hermit quests.
Once those were done, he would send you on a pilgramge to collect a certain number of randomly placed badges from key locations of jedi temples, in these places you would 'feel the force' and then would have to meditate in each place, sort of hoping that the force aligns to you to those places and in each of them you would then be made to do a task, solve a puzzle of some sort, now this could be completely random.
Now here's where profession grinders would get thier bonus, for each profession you have done you have to do less temple quests.
A final test of some kind in which you must seek out a jedi master for final teaching and possibly some more puzzles or a final battle test could be then added.
Daker-Naritus
Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:02 am
#384
I don't think it really matters whether the path is known...
If you make the path unknown, it just delays players from becoming force sensitive until someone figures it out and posts it on these boards.
The most important factor for me is this:
Players should get a choice, upon becoming force sensitive, of whether their main characteror their new second character becomes force sensitive.
The reason all players hated the "profession grind" system of attaining jedi, is that it forsed them to destroy their main characters hologrinding in order to pursue jedi. Now you are trying to fix that by.......creating a system that forces players to destroy their main characters in order to become jedi.
Your only answer to this has been: "Well if you would like your alternate character to become jedi, you can do the VERY long force sensitive path TWICE." That is unacceptable to me, especially if you are making it so that we don't know what the path is!!!!!!!
This is a game-breaker as far as I am concerned... I am on my 27th profession, and will unlock in the next 2 weeks. After that time, I will spend the next month and a half returning my charter to his former glory. However, despite all that work, I will leave this game for WoW in a new york minute if this aspect of the game isn't changed. Many other players will as well.
I have spend a lot of time developing the identiy and reputation of my character, and I will NOT give all that up to become a jedi.
PLEASE consider the needs and wants of your player base while constructing the new FS path...we need a choice of which character becomes FS. Players never knew that your main becoming FS was on the table, so you haven't EVER asked for feedback on this issue. Additionally, almost all the threads discussing this have included NEGATIVE impressions of this change.
Do the right thing.....give us a choice.
Paxas
Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:03 am
#385
JustG wrote:(Now with 75% more info!)There are many stages in the path to becoming a Jedi...The first among them is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive you can choose to continue on the path to becoming a Jedi or not. The path to becoming a Jedi will be a long and dangerous one.Publish 10 is focussing largely on the path FROM Force Sensitive TO becoming a Jedi... this is going to be very quest and story-driven, and will take some effort and time on the part of the players. This path will be directed, and you will know how to get through, but it will also contain an element of mystery.My question has to do with the step before all of this... with how you actually become Force Sensitive.The question to continue discussing is this:Should the method of becoming Force Sensitive (not the path from Force Sensitivity to Jedi) be a mysterious, unknown mechanic or one that is visible and known to everyone?Thanks for the continued feedback!!
I played back when the path to unlocking was mysterious. By 3 months I was ready to hit the cancel button. The point of a game is to have fun. It's time to decide whether Jedi is meant to be played or whether it's a cynical, marketing carrot that's meant to be had but not played. If it's meant to be played, the method should be difficult but known. If it's just a marketing carrot, the method should be as mysterious as possible.
On another note I'm getting worried about the gradual EQization of the game. Runesabre's comments to IDs about seeing his job as forcing as much player interdependence as possible did a lot to turn me off of SWG. I had visions of SWG becoming another forced-grouping, downtime-instensive failure of a "game" like EQ. Don't get me wrong. I'm enjoying the changes in Pub 9. I now have enough to do to keep me busy in SWG for years. I can even see the need for a 2nd account next year, but lately I've been thinking about giving up while I'm ahead. It seems like SOE isn't interested in making a fun game. The way to keep your base isn't with forced interdependence. The way to keep your base and grow it is by concentrating on making a fun game. People may stick with SWG longer because of their friends, but you'll get a lot more people playing by having a more fun game.
I hate EQ, but I was avidly following EQ2 for a while. I checked the website every day for updates. I was eagerly awaiting the possibility of beta. One day I was reading dev interviews. An interviewer asked a dev about the worst problem from EQ, downtime. Instead of saying they were fixing it in EQ2, the dev said they were deciding how much to put in! He said we'd never be so busy we wouldn't have time to talk to our friends. I don't follow EQ2 anymore. It's that kind of arrogance and disregard for players that I don't want to see become more prevalent in SWG than it already is.
You guys need to get back to basics and concentrate on fun. When I look at FRS, it remings me of something a harried mother might say, "Go play with your brother, while I do such and such." It bothers me. I don't want this game to become another EQ where subscriptions plateau then flatline in a narrow range, because mostly only the hardcore, loyal base is still playing. I want SWG to be a fun, growing game. Fie on Runesabre's psychological interdependencies. Get back to the fun!
The guys at Wish look like they're concentrating on the fun https://www.mutablerealms.com/wishForUOPlayers.html I wish you folks at SOE would think more about fun and less about how to manipulate subscribers into staying past the point where they're bored by using psychological tricks. Learn from the lesson of EQ. They have a solid base, but they've never been able to grow it. http://pw1.netcom.com/~sirbruce/Subscriptions.html They don't care about fun.
DS_Shaynah
Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:08 am
#386
Making the way of either becoming force-sensitive or becoming Jedi (doesnt really matter) a known game mechanic would kill the whole game. Sorry but there is already too many jedi - I thought this game was meant to be settled in between episode IV and V - and no Jedi Academy online. But this is what a known game mechanic in becoming force sensitive / jedi would turn the game in to.
If you create a path that is common for everyone you could also let a player choose when creating a char between "normal" and "jedi/force sensitive" char ....
Since Jedis are overpowered no PA will be able to resist having Jedis in their PA if they want to have a realistic chance in PvP - besides, there's no possibility from killing Jedis any more. Since JEDI TEF has been removed, Jedis simply duel for hours in public at starports, they vipe out a cave alone while a whole hunting group has no chance of outdamaging them any more, and in a few months the game will have turned to KOTOR online. Concerning all that, the only combat profession able to establish itself will be jedi in the future...
So I'd support a unique, mysterious way for each char to become both force sensitive or jedi.
What I would also suggest is limiting the number of force slots per server AND readding permadeath again.
Permadeath shouldnt be set active to jedi initiates, but maybe once the Jedi has grown to novice master jedi or maybe already to jedi knight, permadeath should be a pernament menace to those jedis.
That way, everyone had the chance of playing a jedi for some time but wouldnt turn SWG to Jedi Academy online.
So long...
Shay
If you create a path that is common for everyone you could also let a player choose when creating a char between "normal" and "jedi/force sensitive" char ....
Since Jedis are overpowered no PA will be able to resist having Jedis in their PA if they want to have a realistic chance in PvP - besides, there's no possibility from killing Jedis any more. Since JEDI TEF has been removed, Jedis simply duel for hours in public at starports, they vipe out a cave alone while a whole hunting group has no chance of outdamaging them any more, and in a few months the game will have turned to KOTOR online. Concerning all that, the only combat profession able to establish itself will be jedi in the future...
So I'd support a unique, mysterious way for each char to become both force sensitive or jedi.
What I would also suggest is limiting the number of force slots per server AND readding permadeath again.
Permadeath shouldnt be set active to jedi initiates, but maybe once the Jedi has grown to novice master jedi or maybe already to jedi knight, permadeath should be a pernament menace to those jedis.
That way, everyone had the chance of playing a jedi for some time but wouldnt turn SWG to Jedi Academy online.
So long...
Shay
OHMSS225
Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:23 am
#387
Thunderheart wrote:
I put up a poll, "Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one?" - - go weigh in your vote
Thunderheart,
You obviously haven't been paying that much attention to our posts. It's not as black and white as that. Please edit or take down the poll.
Message Edited by OHMSS225 on 07-11-2004 11:24 AM
SethTorth
Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:24 am
#388
I say visible and known to all. After all this game is about star wars. What better way to play star wars than with a star wars Icon... A Jedi!
YllibEromlib
Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:24 am
#389
just my two cents but i don't believe it should be known what you need to do in order to become force sensitive. last time around folks figuring out what was needed to unlock brought about numerous ugly sides of this game: hologrinding, companies selling their manhours on ebay to help folks unlock, etc.
IMO this game was a lot better when you didn't know what unlocked. it was mysterious and many folks felt it was out of their controls so they just played and enjoyed the game. "its out of my control so i'm just going to play. if i unlock i unlock" was said by many. until we found out what we needed to do. then all of a sudden the masses grinded together, we were faced with afk docs and entertainers and musicians, people hoarding holocrons, imperials killing dark troopers for holocrons and numerous other bad things.
besides the frustration many folks described came from knowing what they needed to do and knowing some folks unlocked on 8 professions while they were on 30. if they don't know unlocking becomes a great surprise for those that do - not something they feel they deserve.
TheLateAnakinSolo
Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:38 am
#390
TH, if you happen to read this, I think you should not a couple of things.
First off, anyone who wants a jedi will vote known... naturally because it's easier. However, to make these player start to play the game again (GCW, Player events, and all the other stuff people miss out on because they are grinding) it needs to be unknown.
Unknown buys players PLAYING longer instead of this long grind.
In this case, I don't think that it is what the players want, but rather what the DEV's need.
Hologrinding ruined the game. IF you impliment a system where all you have to do is grind, it will still ruin the game. You need a system that keeps the jedi population somewhat low, but also make it so that you can still get it. ATM, this needs to be weighed by new players unlocking vs. number of jedi that quit, or don't play their jedi anymore.
Heh, just think if you were to do this poll "should we give jedi as a starting novice profession?"
What do you think the results would be? My point.