Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-14: Combat Roles; Squad Leader
What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat?
Leading the group
What basic combat elements should they possess?
None
What offensive abilities?
None
What defensive abilities?
None
What unique abilities?
in addition to what they already have..Crowd Control:
Singleand AoERoot, 30sec,(enemy can still attack, just cant move) - like a mesh trap, onlyitsan ability
Singleand AoEMezmerise, 30 sec,that completely immobilizes an enemy (cant attack or move)
Group only buffs that are always active, such as defense and offense bonuses
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
in addition to what they already have..Crowd control abilities
they should be the main Crowd Controllers in SWG. ie. shoot one scyk, all 5 come.. SL can CC the 4 adds.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Temporary group only buff and support (CC)roles
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
They are nothing without a group, they have no special defensive or offensive capabilities of their own.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat?
To lead the group, direct them correctly and to improve the perfomance of others. This is done now, but not to a degree where it is worth being a squad leader, any other profession adds more to the group for those skillpoints worth.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Combat buffs, like the ones they have now but better and with more effect.
What offensive abilities?
Unique weapon certifications:
- Light Repeating blaster, like a lightning gun or acid rifle, but not as powerful. Blast weapon.
- Heavy reapeating blaster - Must have 2 or 3 man to use (third man is optional, adds to accuracy and speed) Is not movable when placed until after combat ends. Should have enough damage to be worth using up 3 man during battle. Blast damage. Good against Tanks (AT-ST / AT-AT)
What defensive abilities?
Group bonuses, just like now.
What unique abilities?
Combat buffs, just like now, but more useful. Group weapons, see above.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Is ONLY an asset in group combat.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Should improve the effectiveness of ALL other combat professions. None should be better out without a SL in a group.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
- Needs other members for the Group weapons
- Need a group to be useful
- Groups need them to be truly useful
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Leading strike teams / defences.
How can one make the profession more interesting in groups and outside groups?
Put the advanced droid certifications in SL. They are a proffession meant to direct heavy fire and groups, here is the chance to give them something good to add to the group. Let a SL have the ability to have up to 3 droid (3 at master) and up to 30 Droid levels (at master), so they can have one lvl 30 Droid or 3 lvl 10 droid or anything in between (at master level). Their training in directing people would be perfect for also directing advanced droids and groups of droids. It would also make it more easy for SLs to get xp when there is no group to be found, they can always have a small group of droids. A good SL will also choose whatdroid to use based on what profession(s) that is missing in his current group.
What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat?
Providing Centralized command and control over his squad to provide increased combat efficiency and teamwork.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Not sure what you mean here, but they should provide their squad with unique abilities and some various combat bonuses. Basically, they should provide enough advantages that a group lead by a SL fighting a group that does not have a SL should win 9 times out of 10.
What offensive abilities?
There should definately be a modified version of volley fire that allows for specific pool targeting and use of special attacks. There should be an accuracy bonus, and perhaps a damage bonus.
What defensive abilities?
There should be either ranged and melee defense bonuses, (like there are now) dodge bonuses, or damage mitigation +1 bonus (so that it is possible for someone with ranged and melee mitigation 3s to get ranged and melee 4 if grouped with a high level SL.
What unique abilities?
Role designation is a key SL ability, IMO. This is what would make other professions WANT to group with a SL. Most of the professions should gain some unique ability when grouped with a SL, such as being able to transfer radar data to the group (point man for rangers), or increasing the weapon range by 50% for a rifleman (sniper), or gaining a new special ability like cover fire for carbineers (removes aggro from a friendly and forces target to prone) etc etc. There is an expanded thread on role designation on the SL board linked from the floated "current proposals" thread by irott.
SLs should also potentially be able to directly or indirectly create and place some fortifications and/or turrets. This can be done through role designation by unlocking new camp type objects for weaponsmiths, rangers, scouts, armorsmiths and architects, or they can just be camps that the SLs can use themselves. I personally would like to see the crafting professions given a combat crafting ability, simply to add more variety and interest to those professions. A lot of people who play as a weaponsmith or other crafting profession, also took a combat profession. This should tell us that they still want to be involved in combat to some degree, and not just pigeonholed into crafting. Give us role designation and give us roles for the crafters in combat as well.
The other key SL ability should be to heal mind damage. Not wounds, not buffing, just heal damage. I know this ability was given or is going to be given to combat medics, but this is really the domain of squad leaders. They talk to troops, increase their morale, which can be represented by healing damaged mind pool. They should have an ability called boost morale (heh) that has them make a small speech, that heals 100 mind for everyone in the group. Combat medics can still heal mind, thats fine, but we should be able to as well, if only in a limited capacity.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Well, the various passive bonuses they can provide are a plus, and the unique abilities they unlock are key. If no combat medic is around, we are able to heal mind.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
We could provide traditionally non-combat professions with unique combat abilities via role designation, where even a chef can suddenly become a formidible group asset with the mess hall specialist ability (can make and distribute food to his entire group without using a trade window, group members can eat the food by typing /eat instead of having to open inventory in the middle of combat). It is abilities like this that will keep the crafters and support professions that also have a single combat profession (as opposed to being an all combat character) coming to squad leaders for grouping, because they will feel unique and important to the group.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
The other combatants should realize if they are doing PVP, and arent grouped with a SL, there is no way they are going to win in a fight against a group with a SL. For PVP, they should be more dependent on the SL. For PVE or PVE battlefields, they should know that they will be able to accomplish the mission or battlefield with a bit more ease than without a SL. Perhaps everyone in the squad can get a small combat XP bonus for each kill (1-5% or something) when grouped with a SL.
SLs are obviously dependent on other combatants to form a strong group. Yes they may want a few crafter/combat hybrids for those unique abilities, but you will still want a heavy dose of the primary combat professions to balance out your group. SLs are also dependent on combatants to get combat XP so that they can get SL XP.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They should definately be planning, arranging and participating in PVP battles. They should be adding a tactical element to combat, and diversifying the battlefield population with some professions other than bounty hunter, commando, rifleman and creature handler.
What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat?
The Squad Leader is not the best warrior, but he helps a group move and fight better than they would by themselves.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Special abilities that enhance the performance of people in the SL's group.
What offensive abilities?
Nothing special of his own, but the ability to improve group accuracy and/or speed in combat.
What defensive abilities?
Nothing special for himself, but the ability to improve defensive bonuses for the group.
What unique abilities?
Group-affecting combat buffs. Enhanced movement, enhanced defense, enhanced combat speed, enhanced accuracy. SL should also have the best ability to control "people pets" -- like stormtroopers and rebel NPCs.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Synergy. That is, he helps everyone in the group be better at what they do (at least, combat-wise). A group with a SL should be noticably superior to a similar group without one.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
The SL is a combat enhancer. By himself, he is no better than his prerequisites dictate. Even a Master Brawler/Marksman with no elite profession should make short work of the lonely SL.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
SL provides buffs and bonuses to all combat professions. Perhaps even an increased healing speed for medics. The SL in turn depends on a group to make his skills worthwhile. By himself he is not much.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Best control over faction pets like stormtroopers. The SL should be able to handle more "people pets" than anyone else. The SL increases the size of a group in this manner,and also enhances the effectiveness of a group with his combat buffs.
Added Question: What is their weakness or shortcoming in combat?
Alone, they are pretty poor fighters. A lone SL with faction pets vs. a lone CH with creature pets should skew in favor of the SL, but just barely.
Atrue SL has what it takes to lead troops into battle with a strategy in mind. A SL MUST BE COMBAT EFFECTIVE! I cannot see why people are suggesting that they have no combat abilities. i cant! if i was gonna follow someone into battle i would like to hope that they are doing their fair share of the fighting. i'd also follow a beautiful woman into battle but maybe im crazy...but a SL is a fighter too!
how else did a SL come to be an SL if not through combat and study. combat experiece is essential, its hand-ons testing of strategies and tactics he has studied.
at best an SL should bring a huge benefit to a group, or else there is no use for them. also i am finding that somethings suggested are character based things the player must be for example, startegies should not be given, thats for the SL to decide. this would ultimately be a test for a good SL. they would learn in combat and correct the mistakes they have made.
anyways thats my few pence of suggestion - COMBAT EFFECTIVE A SQUADLEADER IS NOT A SISSY!
Velisimner wrote:
Atrue SL has what it takes to lead troops into battle with a strategy in mind. A SL MUST BE COMBAT EFFECTIVE! I cannot see why people are suggesting that they have no combat abilities. i cant! if i was gonna follow someone into battle i would like to hope that they are doing their fair share of the fighting. i'd also follow a beautiful woman into battle but maybe im crazy...but a SL is a fighter too!
What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat?
The squad leader is a professional group leader. Being led by a squad leader helps a group to realize their ultimate potential. A master squad leader's group should be harder to defeat than a similar group led by somebody else.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
As a support profession, the squad leader's role should be that of keeping the squad alive and functional. Some state changes that affect combat (stun, dizzy, intimidate..) can either be cured by the squad leader orresistances to those state changes are received under command of a squad leader (per the skill of the squad leader).
What offensive abilities?
A squad leader should have no, or few, overtly offensive abilities. Rather, they should augment the offensive abilities of the squad.
What defensive abilities?
Supposedly a
What unique abilities?
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
How could/should they interact with other professions?
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Its interesting how many people who aren't SL's replied. Oh,well here's my 2 cents.
What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat? The SL should enhance the abilities of the group. He is the leader, their rally point and their motivation. A group with an SL should have significant advantage against one without.
What basic combat elements should they possess? The ability to increase the effectiveness of the group through both active and passive abilities. Designate target, target specific HAM pool, temporary buffs through the use of rally cries and such. The ability to unlock special abilities in other players, better accuracyand speed. The ability to call for reinforcements. To make shuttle drops in places other than cities, to call in indirect fire (mortar, artillery or air strike)
What offensive abilities? None of his own. If the SL wants his own skills, he can pickup a combat profession in addition to SL. But in a group offensive skills should be enhanced. (Speed, accuracy, damage,etc)
What defensive abilities? Again, none of his own. But should have defensive bonuses for groups when "fortified" or set up in a defensive formation.
What unique abilities? Designate targets, target specific HAM pools regardless of groups weapons, Indirect Fire, Air support, Air drop, Med-evac. Special examine that shows SL what type of weapon a target may be carrying. Ability to designate roles within a group that enhances the ability of that player. (a medic designated as a medic may have better heals, range, etc). Ability to hide from radar in order to perform a recon of a target base(limited in range and cannot equip/use weapon while in cover)
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?See above. The SL himself should be an asset or advantage in group combat.
How could/should they interact with other professions? Enhances other professions. Increases their abilities or unlocks special abilities when grouped.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants? Same as above. For non-combat proff. Need ranger to setup DZ for an airdrop. Need crafter to make radio to call in airstrike...
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War? Allow special missions (SL mission terminal?) to be run when grouped with SL. These missions would be more complicated than the plain destroy missions. Things like hostage rescue, plan stealing, base destruction. Faction missions with an SL should give more faction points.
Recommend visiting SL forum and look at "what we have proposed so far" post. There are excellent discussions there that do not quite fit into your question bank above, but will give you a better feel of what the SLs want. This post seems to be lacking the detail to make it happen.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Basicially what it does now, but in more effect. Depending on the level of the SL, defensive bonus' to flame, kinetic, energy, etc damage. Also the stronghold ability and evreything they currently have. Also, they should be able to increase accuracy and damage for meele and ranged weapons.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Commando, place E-Webs, and add damage/accuracy/defensive capabilities to all professions.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Same question as above. Except for enemy combatants, MABYE they could get a demorilizing ability. This would make the enemys spirit loosen, they would loose accuracy, damage, and defensive (not on armor) capabilities. This would be like a CM throwing a poisen, although nothing physical is thrown, mabye you only see a white energy burst over the enemy, signifying this.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
The abilitiy to call upon 180 (or more depending on skill) NPC's. For imps, stormtroopers. For rebs, rebel NPC's. For Neuturals, whatever the sector police is. IE Naboo, RSF. Corellia, CorSec, etc. Mabye (just mabye) a Master Squad Leader WITH a group of at least 15 players not pets could call upon a 5 minute AT-AT? For rebs mabye a tank, for neuturals, a different type of tank?
Note: MANY of the above suggestions you may think, will make SL the "all powerful" profession, and evreyone will want it. However, they wont. SL's are meant to be group leaders, the bigger the group the more abilities they gain. Solo, or grouped with pets they are useless. If you (the devs) enforce that, then the SL profession will remain small, but at least we will be useful.
Also, make getting SL XP harder. It took me a couple months, but I didnt realize how to get it so fast. Many people can master this profession in under a day, or a week. Please make getting SL xp harder, somehow. Add bi-requirements for some skills mabye? For example for master mabye 1,000,000 SL XP and 500 Apprentice Points.
Just my two cents.
The Squad Leaders role in combat is to encourage the individual group members to work together. "The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts" The Squad Leader is the key to getting the group working together and motivating the team to become greater than their individual parts.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
A Squad Leader should not have any combat abilities. It would be expected that a Squad Leader would have a 2nd profession to back-up the Squad Leader profession, be it a combat profession or a 2nd support profession. Having said this the Squad Leader providing additional weapon certifications would be a nice addition, an additional Pistol/Rifle/Carbine cert to be used if the Squad Leader has Pistoleer/Rifleman/Carbineer as a 2nd profession.
What offensive abilities?
The Squad Leader would be able to motivate the group into performing much better offensively. Improving accuracy or damage at any particular time. These would be active abilities (not passive) to allow the Squad Leader to make the call as to when they are required.
Additionally the Squad Leader would be able to designate targets for the group and maybe even a priority order for targets, allowing the group to work together more effectively in combat.
Also the ability to communicate to the group in a clear and obvious maner, much like the current /sysgroup except it would need to stay on the screen longer and an official way to change the colour of this text.
What defensive abilities?
The Squad Leader would be able to motivate the group into performing much better defensively. Improving defense at any particular time.
Also the Squad Leader would be able to place strategical fortifications such as a sandbag wall or a trench in order to gain a tactical advantage. Group members behind sandbag walls would be harder to hit and the enemy meleers would be required to run around.
What unique abilities?
The skills already mentioned are unique to the Squad Leader, it's difficult to think of common skills because the Squad Leader itself is a unique class.
Any ability that aids the entire group to achieve their task in a more efficient way such as offensive mods, defensive mods, target aquisition, movement bonuses, improved healing rates, negative effect reducation or negation.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The Squad Leader should make a group look and feel more like a well drilled squad instead of just a group of individuals. People should be actively seeking Squad Leaders in their hunting groups because of the benifits they give to the whole team.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Squad Leaders should give benifits to all professions they group with. Combat professions perform more effectively, rangers build more tactical structures, weapon/armour crafters get added experimention due to the experience and advice from the Squad Leader, Healers and Entertainers are more effective, etc.
The Squad Leader is a group person, he does relatively nothing to aid himself but does alot for the other people around him.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
First and foremost because the Squad Leader does relatively nothing for himself (unless grouped) but effects the group he is in, he _requires_ a group in order to use his skills.
Because he requires a group, groups should require (or at least strongly desire) a Squad Leader, it's only fair after all.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
There is a Strong role for the Squad Leader in the Galactic Civil war which I believe should be strongly associated with the Squad Leader skill level and the Squad Leaders Faction Rank.
The Ability to aquire tactical information such as larger radars, the ability to assign a scout and the scouts radar will be copied on to the Squad Leaders radar, shared waypoints.
The ability to expand the /sysgroup over multiple groups to spread communication to a platoon or entire army.
The ability to provide tactical buildings such as FARPs and other temporary structures to aid in the particular battle that is occuring. For example the ability to construct a temporary cloning center and medical tent or a command building where the Squad Leader can observe and command the battle from a more 'real time strategy' like interface.
These are all good examples that have been floated on the Squad Leader forums, and there are many more.
a Squad Leader leads a group of combatants in a battle, he should have abilities to boost a squads performance beyond the performance of a similar group without a leader. his main role is designating targets for the group members, focusing or spreading fire as needed. furthermore he should have the ability to call for certain tatical maneuvers/commands that enhance certain abilities of a squad for a short time.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
basic crowd control weapon specials (already covered by ranged support I-IV), perhaps a bonus on top of that like better accuracy or better chances for those specials to work (could also be achieved by picking up a marksman weapon line)
What offensive abilities?
this profession should provide almost no offensive abilities to the squad leader him/herself.
What defensive abilities?
to ensure that a squad leader actually survives long enough to provide the squad a certain advantage, (s)he should get passive defense modifiers for each squad member that is not incapacitated and currently in combat. once all squad members are down or fleeing those passive defense should drop. (think of this like the squad protecting its leader)
What unique abilities?
while this profession provides mostly unique abilities, i will discuss the tactical maneuvers/commands here:
formup - good as it is now, but i strongly feel that it should remove intimidation and warcry/panic shot-delay, too.
volleyfire - good in concept, but it does not seem to work out in battle. maybe change it so that all shots of the volley hit the same location, though that location would still be random.
boost morale - i think this skill should only affect the mind attributes of the players. perhaps two different versions, one evening out the mind damage and another one distributing mind, focus and willpower wounds would be good.
steady aim - i dont see any real effect when using this skill, but i feel that it does not provide enough advantage for the cost (or does not last long enough)
cease fire - a skill that prevents the squad members to open fire on a target unless that targets attacks first.
good skill for those squad members with itchy trigger fingers. it should stop immediately when another command is given.
fire at will - this command does nothing itself, but it stops the "cease fire"-command
forced march - prevents all combat, stops all HAM-regeneration and drains the HAM-bars of all squad members over time (not in big steps like bleeding but more like reverse regeneration) but provides extra movement speed.
furthermore a master squad leader should have a target monitor similar to the group list: it shows all targets that are in combat with the group, giving the squad leader some kind of overview what is going on a the moment.
it should show all targets that are currently attacked by the group members as well as some targets that attack a group member - attackers shooting from cover should not immediately pop up in the target monitor, but they show up after a certain number of attacks (similar to the fact that creatures do not know what hit them at first but after a few shots they charge the attacker)
also a waypoint management system would be good. allow the squad leader to see all mission waypoints of the squad (properly updating as soon as they are relocated) and let the leader designate a waypoint (maybe more than one) that shows up for all group members.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
a squad leader should provide passive modifiers to the whole group. one concept would be that the squad leader enables the group to share their some of their modifiers, like if a ranger is in the group, his creature knowledge would be passed on to all group members (think of this like the ranger tells the group about the creatures when he sees them) - same goes for terrain negotiation, burst run, mask scent and other skills, perhaps even combat modifiers like accuracy, speed and defenses. just keep in mind that shared modifiers do not add together, just the highest modifier of a squad member is passed to all other members.
two different progression methods could be chosen here:
if the squad leader progresses towards master either allow more different skills to be shared among the group or the squadl leaders level determines the maximum level of modifiers that are shared.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
since squad leader is unique in nature it should combine well with any other profession. however the squad leader abilities should not increase the performance of the leader him/herself, it is just to boost the squad.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
this profession needs a high level of interaction and dependency, the leader issues orders, uses tactical maneuvers to improve the performance of the squad and is totally dependant on having a squad to lead (unless he has an additional profession that enables him to fight on his own)
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
i think it would be interesting if squad leaders would be allowed to lead bigger groups of NPC characters on certain battle grounds, perhaps even a mix of PCs and NPCs to allow battles of epic size.