Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-5: Combat Roles; Commando
hello my name is NARRAZ,in shadowfire. i am a master commando and have been for some time. here are just some feelings i have.
RANGED/MELEE
obviously a commando has to be very unique in that he mus be brawler unarmed and master marksman. I would like to see some melee skills for commandos. or whats point of unarmed? maybe just some gun butts or something.
Redundant vs. Unique Abilities
while i do appritiate the ranged mitation of commandos we lack much melee defense wich is hard considering u have to get close to flame or acid or even throw grenades. also if a commando gets knocked down there should be a dot to get back up..think about it alot of heavy eq on you..your not going to stand up very fast. but they should be extremely hard to knock over.
Game Space
i feel that we are pretty good in gamespace. in a dungeon take the warren for example u can flamecone and get rid of groups..if they dont kill u first of course. wich leads back to melee defense. as for open spaces its good vs npc/comp targets but pvp is a little different as i will follow this up in that section.
PvP and PvE
ok here we are. whew. this is a very touchy subject. everyone in the game is obvoiusly going to want there characters the best in the game. thats not going to happen. a balance must be obtained at all times.in my own personal opinion i feel commandos are not utilized to there full potential. ok yes u can flame cone a group but then u get your DOT or delay of time.generaly around 10 seconds or so.. in wich u are dead by then. think of it as a warcry after you use a specail. wouldnt be fun if everyone else had that. our damage is well i admit, but slow weapons even out with others that have fast attack speed and decent damage. as for our utillization i almost feel useless in a imp base raid. all i can do is hang outsinde and hope no one targets me. if we could use rockets against buildings or blow up stuff that would be better. feel more like ur makeing a diference. maybe rig mines or set up turrets. i dont know. were HEAVY weapons specailists but all i feel like i can do is flame cone or flame single and i will die after that. comp armor also will protect against flame and if the person is tka they just meditate it off. again melee defense would be great. as i said i dont think there will ever be a balance but hopefully we can get closer.oh yeah whats the point of useing a acid rifle..it doesnt even burn like flamethrower.. or do any more damage. anyway cant think of much more to say than some melee defence would be great maybe some skills to make commandos feel usefull and faster attack speeds or less dot maybe some heavy.armor commando only as well would be great. hold your weapons on it and such i remember in the pencil paper sw game there was a set of armor with a arm attached to it that i had it had a flamethrower/grenade laucher/ gun on it it was to heavy to carry alone..the gun that is so it had to be attached to the armor with a swinging arm.of couse if i fell over i had to get people to help me back up. anyway hope more people comment on this.
I'll keep mine cut and dry for ya.
What Defines a commandos role in combat?
High damage dealers with multitude of weapon types, low defenses. (if we're looking at a should)
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Trained in all marksman and unarmed so should be good at all ranges of ranged combat and no slouch hand to hand.
What offensive abilities?
Front loaded damage, meaning first shot does massive damage but second shot comes slower than other professions.
What defensive abilities?
Should be less in ranged/melee defenses than other professions, but should be a hardened soldier so need status effect defenses or even a new idea I've tossed around, wound reduction.
What unique abilities?
I guess my idea of being a hardened soldier so harder to wound would fit here, but, as many have said, we are the ones that take out big targets. (AT-STs)
Should add whatadvantage or asset in group combat?
Fire power! And Im for a mid battle entrenchment that works like a group cover.
How could/should they interact with with other professions?
The obvious is as it has been, a Weaponsmith could stay in business off of just one commando. The problem we have is no one needs us. If we truly had the firepower advantage, people would want us along in combat.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
I personally amone to say, and I'm sure you devs dont agree with, that I should not depend on a profession that has just one of five of my pre-reqs in combat, I should have the same situation capabilities. i know balance is a key part here but when looked at carefully, if that pistoleer doesnt take weaponsmith or armorer or somerhing like that, they typically take fencer and TKA and stack the crap out of their mods because they got the skill pool points that I dont, and since you insist on balancing me with a pistoleer, I am nothing compared to their stacking.
To answer your question. We should be the brutes/ raw power they want to have around.
What should be their unique role in the GCW?
We need to be able to set explosives on large targets such as turrets, bases, AT-STs, etc. Use something that takes out the target but is very high risk to get it set. Maybe a 60 sec timer or even longer, that way we got to make sure the area is clear or we got a group to cover us while we do it. Then, commandos from opposing sides get the oppurtunity to disarm it. If failed, they go with the target.
main focus should be high damage against big targets like buildings, installments and vehicles. special weaponry should have good accuracy against the intended targets but need to be a lot less accurate against human targets.
special heavy anti-infantry weapons (think machine guns) are difficult:
they need to be more efficient against infantry than normal weapons (ie rifles, carbines, pistols and melee) to actually make them anti-inftantry weapons. however this would lead to a serious imbalance. one could overcome this flaw by having those weapons require ammunition, restricting its use.
heavy weaponry should have a big penalty when firing on the move and should be quite accurate at long ranges, even against moving targets (this also applies to high rate of fire weapons if you consider an attack as an actual burst of bullets)
considering that one of the main jobs of a commando is going against big targets, this profession should be the one that is suited well for armor. therefore commandos should not have "funky" special moves (consuming HAM) and the weapons should have low ham-values (saving HAM again)
TH, to answer your questions,
the commando should be a hybrid between a melee class and a ranged class. As it is now it is just this and its very well balanced. We use ranged weapons at such short range its practically melee, BUT those weapons deal very heavy damage (flamethrower, acid rifle if its ever fixed) and we can do so in Area of Effect (flamecone, acidcone). A melee class will easily kill a commando if it gets into melee range, as it is in the case of any melee vs ranged combat at melee range. a ranged class will easily kill a commando if they stay outside melee range, just as it is the case of a ranged vs melee combat kiting.
our role in groups should be that of a heavy support firepower. Aka, a combat expediter. We do this already with the flamethrower, for no group can deny that going against a krayt dragon or a cave full of very angry nightsisters is much, much easier if you have someone that can flamecone 10 or more targets at once and put a heavy damage dot.
<b> our role in PvE as combat expediters/heavy firepower support isalready working thanks to the flamethrower and acid rifle (if its ever fixed)</b>
in the GCW the commando should be the proffession called upon for demolition (attack installations), anti-vehicle (atst, atsts) and anti-droid (combat droids) duties. Our flamethrower is an excellent installation assault tool (fighting inside a building). As of now,
<b>our role in PvP/GCW as anti-vehicle proffession is NOT working. Heavy Weapons (disposable weapons, aka rocket launchers) are not even close to being effective against vehicles and installations. </b>
Rocket launchers should be doing around 10 to 15k damage a shot, for the current 5k damage is laughable when facing an atst that has THREE ham bars of 55k each. Ask yourself this TH: Does it make sense that a launcher pistol, AP0, in the hands of a pistoleer is ten times more effective against an atst than a rocket launcher at the hands of a master commando vs the atst? especially when the launcher pistol is NOT a disposable weapon?
The commando only needs to have the acid rifle fixed and upped in damage to be equivalent to the flamethrower (but no dot, make it be AP2 and be completely neutral accuracies, +0 at 0m, +0 at 40m +0 at 64m) and of course, its accuracy and speed mods fixed, grenades need to have twice the accuracy they have now, extend ideal range to 25m, add aoe status effects to grenades c12&c22 stun, cryoban blind, glop dizzy, imperialstun+blind, thermal be a low damage fire dot, proton knockdown.
launcher pistol needs its own specials and needs to be a heavy weapon only. pistoleers outperform commandoby using the novice box launcher pistol vs turrets and atsts. some specials proposed are homing lock that fires a volley of normal damage shots but they never miss, salvo which will fire a cone-like aoe attack that doesnt miss and does only normalshot damage.
heavy weapons need to be made easier to manufacture. very few weaponsmiths make rockets,and even fewermake grenades. these take too long to make andrequire rarenamed resources which almost all the time are of low quality andas such make the end products be verypoor.
defensively I thinkthe commando shouldhave high (+60) status defenses vs blind, dizzy, intimidate and knockdown (with 80% of those defenses in the master box) and have zero ranged and zero melee defenses. as the 'assault heavy damage' proffession we should be very vulnerable at getting HIT , but hard to be STOPPED while charging. Aka, make it so onlyincapacitating us is the only sure way to stop a commando thats charging into flamer/acid/grenade range.
I have never tried commando yet, since it was broke when I thought about doing it and when it got fixed, to many people became commando's and it seemed to boring to do the same thing as everyone else.
Anyways my idea of a commando would be that they should be very deadly against groups of people, mainly dealing with area effect damage rather than one-on-one combat. Also, they should do deadly damage against larger objects such as AT-ST's, rancors, Krayts and such. In other words I don't think they should have much accuracy against smaller creatures and people and only deal damage mostly through area effect which would make them more elite for group hunting.
What defines theCommando role in combat?
Heavy firepower and demolitions.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Heavy firepower. Commandos should have the scariest weapons -- flamethrowers, grenades, etc. They should have enough hand-to-hand ability to defend themselves against an elite melee class who gets close. They should have the best skills for destroying enemy strongholds through demolitions or heavy weapons skills.
What offensive abilities?
Big guns. They should have guns that have the most damage and/or area-effect attacks, though they might be low in speed, range, and/or accuracy (for balance). In addition, they need specials that devastate structures.
What defensive abilities?
They should have enough hand-to-hand defense that when an elite melee character approaches, they can stand their ground and keep shooting their gun without being overwhelmed (as most ranged characters should be by brawlers). Other than that, this class is mostly offense.
What unique abilities?
Demolitions. Specials that devastate enemy structures should belong only to the Commando.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Heavy firepoweris a fine advantage, but the Commando's demolitions should make them a great benefit when it comes time to destroy an enemy lair, camp (see my post on Scouts for uses of destructible combat camps), or factional base.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
A Commandoshould probably win mostranged fight, though aRifleman might be an even match (heavy damage versus precision). A clever Bounty Hunter should have no problem defeating a Commando if the BHchooses the rightweapons, though the Commando will winif the BH does not. If an elite brawler gets close, it should be a tough fight.Commando AoE-type attacks should prove scary to high-defense TKAs, but theelitebrawlers have better melee offense and are designed to last a long time up close. If the Commando puts away the big gun or gets disarmed, the elitemelee character should have a clear advantage.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Commandos should be the least dependent upon others in a fight. With the firepower to win a ranged battle and enough melee defense to survive a close brawler, the Commando is well-suited to wage a one-man war (the Commando has more Skill Points invested in combat skills than any other class requires). However, if the Commando has a tank to block for him, and a skilled shooter to support him, he will be even more effective. Groups should rely on their Commandos to help out in base assaults.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Faction base demolishers. The Commando should be able to disable enemy buildings significantlyfaster than anyone else. People should think twice about invading an enemy base if they don't have a Commando along.
Added Question: What is their weakness or shortcoming in combat?
They are "one-trick ponies". Though they have different damage types in their devastation, they may lack in specials and defenses against specials, compared to other fighters. This means that a well-defended group (or very-well-prepared individual) can predict the Commando's attacks and cope.
What defines theCommando role in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Commandos worldwide are surgical attack groups. They are highly mobile, highly versatile,precision attack teams designed for attacks against specific targets. They should probably also require the Exploration line of Scouts.
What offensive abilities?
They should be well versed in a variety of weapons - all marksman and starting brawler (which they currently are) as well as weapons of destruction for structures and armored units... rocket launchers, satchel charges, etc.
What defensive abilities?
Strong offense and high mobility, possibly some additionaldefenses vs. posture changes and knockdowns.
What unique abilities?
Covert GCW commandos should be able to bypass enemy covert scanners until they initiate their own TEF. ENemy mine fields might be a weakness of theies but I'll leave that open for debate. They should also get some specialized attacks against structures and their defenses as well as the armored personel units.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
In generic, non-surgical striketype, combat they should function as a well versed, highly certified combat type which they already do. With the fullMarksman linethey can attack whichever HAM pool they choose and they should be certified enough to choose an appropriate weapon for their enemy's defenses.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They should be the vanguard force for leading an assault against a structure, breaking/sabotaging its defenses and allowing the rest of the strike force better access to enemy bases. Working with a sniper Rifleman they could wreak havoc at breaking into enemy bases
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Combat Medics are left to the job of healing them. Another class might be better suited to mine field mitigation, at range possibly - say a Rifleman or Carbineer with flushing or strafing shotsmaybe. Pistoleers and Brawler types might make a better complement inside the base's interiors where the real destruction of the base should take place. Bounty Hunters might help them where their surgical strike centers on a protected high profile target individual, aiding in tracking him/her down after the protection has been mitigated.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Their unique role should be specializing in surgical strikes against enemy bases and armored personel units. For more flavor, strike missions could center around rescuing guarded prisoners or eliminating high profile protected targets.
The commando should be at his full potential when charging a sea of enemies; lobbing area damage attacks with gernades and flame cones, then switching to rockets to take down enemy armor.
Commandos should have no particualr advantage when dueling one on one, his talents and specialties should be in fighting against an army.