Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-7: Combat Roles; Fencer
What defines theFencerrole in combat?
High accuracy and fast attacks but at moderate damage. Their ability to dodge and distract the opponent through their speed and agility.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Dizzy, blind, posture change, and high melee defense. A medium armor piercing weapon to reflect their ability to find weaknesses in armor.
What offensive abilities?
Limited abilities in terms of damage. The speed of their attacks would make up for the lower damage. Area attacks would be good as well, seeing that their weapon has the speed to be everywhere at once.
What defensive abilities?
Dodge and high defense. High agility allows them to dodge ranged and melee attacks.
What unique abilities?
Dizzy would be a good unique ability. The speed of the attack leaves the target confused and disoriented.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
An agile tank that can switch targets rapidly. The ablilty to switch targets rapidly allows them the ability to keep the crowd focused on them rather than the damage dealers.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They keep the target occupied while others deal out more damage. They avoid damage through their defenses. Through the use of specials, they keep a crowd dizzy and bleeding. For non-combat classes, they, like all combatants, need armor and weapons.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
They hold the enemies attention while others kill it. They can still do decent damage to the target though.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They can duck and dodge their way across the battlefield to take out the enemy's soft targets such as the docs and snipers.
I like to say I like the current state of the profession, though it does need a few changes. Compared to a pikeman, fencers don't do as much damage per hit, but they hit more often. I do believe a medium armor piercing weapon with good damage will fit a 1-handed weapon user. The medium AP would be a reflection of their ability to penetrate the tiny cracks in armor. A round, pointed rod pierces easier than a large axe head.
There is also 2 sets of specials that do the same thing. Fencers have 2 area attacks that blind and 2 more that dizzy. Perhaps a new state to replace one of these, confusion, then make the other more damage.
Confusion could delay their attacks by either a percentage or a straight time increase.
Star Wars is a mix of modern and archaic and I'm not sure how you mix them well. Gamorian guards hauled around giant pikes.
In a world where guns are available all the time to everyone fencers have no place. But inStar Warsthere are places you just can't bring a gun or they aren't that available due to law enforcement, where a concealed knife or vibroblade might do the job.
Star Wars has a ton of indoor environments or enclosed places where melee weaopons can reallybe put to good use. SWG just has way too much open space. With long lanes to fire, a melee weapon just doesn'tcut it.
TaimaishuYun wrote:
please DONT call a nerf on us... PLEASE!
Lifesavers wrote:
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Heavy melee professions should be able to tank bigger critters then fencers. Since fencers are masters of speed they should not be able to tank huge critters because if they got hit it would mean certain death. I think 2handed swordmen/polearms should be the better tanker.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They should be able to scare NPC humanoids with there mastery of blades. Show how great they are with there weapons. After all fencers are usually more for the show and not for the damage.
Where did I call for a nerf? Did I say fencers were overpowered? I'm a fencer myself, I would just love the added strategies from having to depend on more heavy people to help defend better that'S all. The balance would be 2handed/polearm=heavy defense, fencers/TKA=dodgers/evaders that's it. You just need to read what i wrote again!
1. Different sword types. Some swords are made for slashing and others are made for thrusting. I would have swords that slash have better area attack capabilities and be superior against un armoured opponents. The thrusting swords were developed and used to counter armour. A thrust under the armpit or other break in the armour was the way to defeat a heavily armoured opponent. Let thrusting swords counter composite armour to a degree.
2. Give the fencers the ability to earn badges and xp by dueling other fencers. let them earn a set number of xp per win in a duel and after say 25 50 100 winns they earn a badge and a title i.e Champion of the Rapier. Grand Master of the Foil, something like that. Maybe some credits too like 50K or something. The players could have tournements and other could watch them. let the archetects build dueling rings and Bandstands. The fencers could duel and the musicians could play on the outside bandstand and get xp when people listen. Set off fireworks and let the chefs put out buffets. Give everybody something to do outside in the old in game cities. It would give the original cities new life.
Give the merchants a gambling skill so they could take bets on the duel or match. Different guilds could have matches. Let there be flea market tables with only 10 items
that could be displayed in a portable bazaar type thing to rejuvenate the original cities. Like a small version of the merchant tents with minimal items
I see the Brawler tree as a spectrum going from personal combat styles to more military fighting styles.
Teras Kasi-- an almost mystical form of combat, an analog to Eastern martial arts
Fencer-- the use of light weapons more intended for duels, streetfighting, urban combat rather than a battlefield
Heavy Swordsman-- the use of heavy offensive weapons that might be used to penetrate armor in a battlefield situation in which conventional ranged weapons had limited effect
Pikeman -- the use of a heavy weapon that has strong offense, suitable for the battlefield, but also has a configuration that makes it ideal for sentries, crowd control, and formal guard roles
I think within these four trees, there is a huge place for fencer and for all of melee in this game—these represent the cultural fighting traditions of the various races (Teras Kasi, the gaderiffi, the ryyk), ceremonial military roles (like the Emperor's guard), streetfighting weapons used when guns are restricted, a combat/law enforcement role (like the stun baton or the vibroblade), or weapons used when heavy armor makes standard ranged weapons less effective (power hammer, vibrolance).
I don't think this world was intended to be like "Star Trek". Here, some people have access to the most advanced technology possible, while others lead a primitive existence-—cultures clash, levels of technology mix. Some people are flying in hyperspace, while others are fighting in gladiator arenas.
+What basic combat elements should they possess?
Strong on defense, with high speed. Fencers are accustomed to training and fighting with light weapons, so their reflexes will be extremely fast, allowing them to avoid attacks, but also allowing them to find and strike at openings in the defense.
+What offensive abilities?
Because Fencers know that their weapons do less damage, they need to be able to assess the opponents weak points, allowing them to execute attacks that cause blindness, bleeding, dizziness.
+What defensive abilities?
The ability to neutralize/avoid attacks, but also the ability to forestall the attack by trapping, parrying, and other effects that cause delays.
+What unique abilities?
Possibly an advanced move that uses the same skill modifiers as Center of Being, that is much more defensive, but occupies a slot in the combat queue of a long duration, so during that time you cannot attack—-some obvious fine tuning would be required. Strategic fencers wouldn't use it just to survive, but also in combination with DOT attacks, or would make sure to aggro the opponent first in order to divert the mob's attack on themselves. (Some balancing might be required to make sure that it isn't used in the same way that people use the Feign Death skill to solo huge mobs, but I think this could have a bit more credibility than that tactic.)
Perhaps a melee charge, like a shorter-duration form of burst run, should allow the player to close the distance between kiting ranged opponents, who are slowed down by the fact that they are trying to shoot and run at the same time.
+Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
In combat with the most dangerous opponents, fencers are able to distract, delay, and weaken multiple opponents while their teammates, less able to defend themselves, can execute their more offensive attacks.
+How could/should they interact with other professions?
Fencers should be able to take on opponents would quickly overcome a more offensive teammate. Likewise, a strong offensive player should be able to do damage that a fencer could not do. Ideally-- neither would be a "support" player, a group that was a mix of fencers and commandos should be stronger than one group of fencers, or one group of commandos.
+What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
See the previous question. Perhaps having the right mix of professions could provide bonuses in addition to the fact that mixed groups are a logical mix.
+What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Urban fighting as opposed to regular battlefield combat. Fencers should have no special advantage on the battlefield, even some forms of ranged combat such as pistol should be at a disadvantage unless they are able to get through and fight in close quarters. Close quarter battle situations, like infiltration missions in which stealth is required, or missions in which you must be covert, so that covert can become a content-based distinction, and not just a PvP or non-PvP distinction.
Here's my take on these issues:
What defines theFencerrole in combat?
The current paradigm works here. The fencer should be a good tank who is able to deal out damage quickly, second only to tka, but be unparalelled inevasion and reductionof damage /state-attacks. Fencer should be the best against humanoid npc's and pc's. They should be worse against creatures.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Fencers' area of effect hits should be transferred to pikeman and instead we should receive greater damage reduction, better state resists andmore 1 on 1 state hits and a better knockdown.
What offensive abilities?
I like the current setup but it is a bit limited. Essentially I use 2 or 3 moves.
The healthhit3 and health bleedon all mobs.
Or the scatter hit , in pvp or when grouped with people who are doing more damage to a pool other than health.
I would like to replace the area of effect moves, which I hardly use with 1 on 1 moves. A powerful blind, a powerful dizzy, maybe a stun, and a useful knockdown.
I like the fact that we can chose between stun baton for stun dmg , vibroblade for low armor piercing and gaderiffi for damage.
One last point here. I think that all the weapons, should look as high-tech as the stun baton . There should be no stone-aged /b.c. weapons in this game. Get rid of aluminum look and replace with titanium alloys. No more spiky rods and give us electro-blades instead!
What defensive abilities?
Fecner should really excel here. Fencer should be the sneaky blighter who manages to stay alive a long time by evading hits rather than dishing out the damage. Particularly on state hits we should be better at evading adn recovering from them.
What unique abilities?
I'd like to see a knockdown move that I can use. I never even bothered to click the posture change after i got master, its just a waste oftime in combat. If not a kd move then I thing we should lose the posture change move and dizzy altogether and replace them with something more useful.Perhapsan even betterbleed hit since we like to poke people with our swords. Or just all of the damage evasion and state hit protection i mentioned before.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Should be nimble agile and be able to duel extremely well(not necessarily pvp). I.e one on one combat should be outstanding.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They should be at the forefront of battle. In those hairy moments when your battling a powerful mob she should be the one left standing and fighting when the others are incapacitated fending the mob off until the main tanks can get up again.Fencers should be evading incomingdamage and dealing the damage in small fast portions.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Fencers should be able to duel (again not necessarily pvp) well. They should not be as fast a killing machine as the other tanks but be able to outlast people.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They should be the number one choice against npc's and pc's. They should not be the person you turn to to take down a krayt dragon or a rancor.
What defines theFencerrole in combat?
A fencer is fast and stylish, fasthitting, fast dodging, and uses a lot of special moves. Deadly at close range.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Dodge, Health Bleeds, Great damage at close range
What offensive abilities?
Health Bleeds and Great damage at close range
What defensive abilities?
Can't take hits better then others, but rarely gets hit do to his dodge skill
What unique abilities?
Style! (they can and need to use a lot of stylish moves to keep their target from hitting and moving slow)
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat? / How could/should they interact with other professions?
Fencers can inflict bleeds on target and keep it busy so they can attack from a safe range
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
They need protection from long range attacks
when i think of a fencer i think of someone who will take advantage of any disadvatage their opponet has, why also being swift and agile.... but not being able to take a hit as well
basically if you wanna fix fencer i think you need to give us a few more specials... examples
thrust: adds +1 to your armor piercing with a small damage modifier 2-3Xs?
fast attack: an attack that hit instantly... but somehow give it a time cap of like 60 seconds... we are agile andi think giving us an extra really fast attack would give us that extra edge in combat damage modifier... hmm... 1.5-2Xs maybe even with this attack throw in a chance to apply a status effect of some sort... mayeb a posture change??
i also dont think fencers should be limited to one HAM bar.... altho if ppl think TKA is better suited for multi HAM attacks keep it that way.... but personelly i think fencers should get the attacks TKA gets.. i mean look... we got scatter hit....
as for a KD, i say leave us how we are and give the KD to swordsmen.... we got dizzy... that with lunge works just fine... maybe make the dizzy/lunge trick work in PvE a little better im not saying all the time... maybe give it a 33-50% chance
as for melee and defence modifiers i think we got enough... toughnes... we got enough, i also think it would be cool if fencer got a +5 more seconds to ther CoB compared to other melee classes...
some mention dual weilding.... no... pistoleers deserve that... we are fencers... if we had 2 weapons we would not be as dexterous and to be honest... dual wielding shoul stay outta melee....
just my opinions/ideas... 
What defines theFencerrole in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
What offensive abilities?
Status, posture and positional changing abilities should be the trade not power.
What defensive abilities?
Dodging and parrying. We shouldn't have as much damage mitigation imo nor as much melee defence.
What unique abilities?
We should have more posture and movement abilities (like pistoleers do). I think we should be able to pick a defensive posture ala the three fencing rings. We should also get some terrian negociation to show our speed advantage as well.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Speed - being able to get to people behind a front line of defence for example.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
See below.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Depedencies - weapons, clothing, buffs etc...
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
What offensive abilities?
Fencers should have good offensive abilities, but not as good as swordsman or pikeman. They should be good at dealing out steady amounts of damage. Currently, fencers are a bit weak at dealing out damage. A comparable swordsman's curved sword puts out more damage than a fencer's curved sword (fair), at the same speed (wait a minute...), and also has medium armor piercing (unfair). We should have some option to pick a whoop-a** fighting style.
What defensive abilities?
Fencers currently have a good defensive ability: dodge. Their melee defence seems appropriate as well. Fencers should be the best at taking abuse for long periods of time. In essence, lower damage per second, but high combat stamina.
(Center of Being currently uses too much mind to be useful to me in battle. I die on mind.)
What unique abilities?
I see flexibility as a fencer's friend I would like a way to trade off defence for offence. That is, switch my dodge bonus to a damage bonus. I can either dodge (not get hit), or slam (hit hard, but take lots of damage). I would also like a way to reduce my damage output, but up my defences. Finally, a way to grab the aggro of a creature in order to pull it away from attacking someone else.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Fencers should be the best tanks, as they are not best at raw damage output. Swordsman and pikemen hit hard, but should have less staying power. Fencers should hit less hard, but be able to stay in the fight longer than anyone.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They need doctor buffs and wound healing. They hold the aggro for the ranged combatants.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
On tough hunts, any group should love having a fencer. He should be the one standing between you and certain death.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Fencers (all melee, really) are the close-quarter specialists. You want these people well away from you if you can't hand-to-hand. They should disable an opponent faster than a ranged weapon.