Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Jedi Feedback: Jedi Conversion Process
Allis
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:18 pm
#27
OK just logged onto test-Corbantis and I am in trouble
Snapshot was taken over the weekend. I was 4/1/3/3 at the time(still am).
This gave me 33 skill points to use up... =/ which means based off costs, I can't train it all up =/...
For initiates curious on the conversion, this means a 4/1/3/3 is only equal to a lightsaber 4/x/x/x or some such.... you lose the 5 skill points if you train it this way...
the other option is 2/x/x/1 as you can see neither are very attractive. At this point, I would say we are in a deep amount of trouble... either lose 3 skill points or 5 your choice. My recommendation is to grind as much as you can over the next few days and let the others test the jedi powers since you will not see them for several months still...
Snapshot was taken over the weekend. I was 4/1/3/3 at the time(still am).
This gave me 33 skill points to use up... =/ which means based off costs, I can't train it all up =/...
For initiates curious on the conversion, this means a 4/1/3/3 is only equal to a lightsaber 4/x/x/x or some such.... you lose the 5 skill points if you train it this way...
the other option is 2/x/x/1 as you can see neither are very attractive. At this point, I would say we are in a deep amount of trouble... either lose 3 skill points or 5 your choice. My recommendation is to grind as much as you can over the next few days and let the others test the jedi powers since you will not see them for several months still...
Had the skill point cost been reversed as Arjun had suggested, we as initiates would be allowed to train up more of our skill points... as it stands now... I have to grind like mad to get to 4/4/4/4 to maybe get 4/0/0/4...
I did not have much in the way of banked xp, so no caps for me or anything... but it held firm....
Allis
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:19 pm
#28
So far as the question to non force skills...
I was able train them all the way up for free using up all my skill points...
Wongsiufu
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:24 pm
#29
I wouldalso suggest all low level Initiate to get extra 680k xp stored. Do not train it. Use it to buy force armor 1 after the conversion. If you train 1 more box now and it can grant you with more xp after the conversion, train it. If not, just store the xpto buyforce armor 1.
You cannot use armor when holding a lightsaber (your lightsaber damage will become uncertified). And we still don't know how good or how bad is the robe. 125 melee defense and melee damage migitation 3 can help you also. Also get novice medic and pharm IV so you can use stimpack D.
Tyreseus
Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:49 pm
#30
Wow, 4/1/3/3 initiate translated into 33 skill points? and 4/3/3/4 became 45? Thats 4/0/0/0 and 4/0/0/2 respectively.
I think thats a little harsh, regardless of the "core numbers" that are involved, simply because more value was attributable to the 4133 or 4334 ("more bang for your buck") that is no longer reflected in the new system. The increased xp cost for skills is not the players fault - that was the devs choice, so im not sure why the current jedi have to essentially "pay" for that. This has nothing to do with "well you didnt put the effort in" - absolutely they did, they earned those skills under the current system.
While box for box is arguably "unfair", I dont think going from 11 boxes to 4 is fair whatsoever - its like going from one extreme to the other. The reason I say this is the conversion process does not appear to take into account the lost lightsaber experience. Lightsaber xp, after gaining all the boxes, caps out. If that was kept track of, a jedi initiate gaining all 4 skill boxes (say in force power) will have spent approximately 1.5 million jedi xp: Which is 15 million saber xp lost (or, arguably, the equivalent of another 1.5 million jedi xp lost...I dont know what that translates to under the new system, but its something to consider). I dont think this was accounted for under the new system where lightsaber xp was done away with and transferred into jedi xp.
You may want to tweak it some so currentinitiates (who have the more difficult time gaining xp) get at least 2/3 of their current boxes (ie if they had 14, they get 9-10; if they had 11, they get 7-8). Just a thought.
TheLateAnakinSolo
Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:55 pm
#31
I'll repost again, so you can see it. Please read it, and note it. You can't ignore hard numbers.
Padawan boxes (at 40k an hour average)
1 hour for the lightsaber boxes.
35 hours for the healing tree.
35 hours for the force tree.
35 hours for the man tree.
38 hours for the padawan box.
Total Hours: 144 (at 3 hours a day, 48 days)(at 6 hours a day, 24 days)
KnightBoxes (at 133k an hour)
24 hours for the novice box.
2 hours lightsaber tree.
22 hours for healing
22 hours for force
22 hours for man
24 hours for master box
Total Hours: 116 (at 3 hours a day, 39 days)(at 6 hours a day, 20 days)(28 hour difference)
Guardian boxes(at200k an hour)
2 hours for the lightsaber boxes.
15 hours for the healing line
15 hours for the force line.
15 hours for the man line
(master box at 3.2 mil if fixed)
16 hours.
Total Hours: 63 hours (at 3 hours a day, 21 days)(at 6 hours a day, 11 days)(53 hour difference)
Total Hours for Jedi: 323 (at 3 hours a day, 108 days)(at 6 hours a day, 54 days)
% for each.
Padawan = 45% of all hours.
Knight = 36% of all hours. (9% difference)
Guardian = 19% of all hours. (17% difference)
!!!NOTE THIS!!!
Conversion Rate:
Padawan Boxes (45% of old * 250)
112 Skill Points.
Apprentice Boxes (36% of old * 250)
90 Skill Points.
Guardian Boxes (19% of old * 250)
48 Skill Points.
EASY WAY TO EVEN OUT SKILL POINTS!
THIS would be a regular TIME vs. SKILL conversion
Note: Tree is in skill point numbers.
Padawan boxes.
--------12---------
1-9-9-9
1-7-7-7
1-5-5-5
1-3-3-3
--------24---------
Knight boxes
--------19---------
1-7-7-7
1-5-5-5
1-3-3-3
1-1-1-1
--------19----------
Master boxes
---------0-----------
1-5-5-5
1-3-3-3
1-1-1-1
1-1-1-1
---------14------------
Used all skill points, and everything works out for the "total hours put in"
I'll keep telling you that you've got it wrong, until you change the skill point conversion from that of above.
Mace33
Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:57 pm
#32
Finally got on late tonight and did not do much testing.Took me awhile to figure out what i was gonna take with the remainder skill points.
I only got 2 boxes in Jedi, Novice Saber and 2_hand.
The rest I put into a TK, Fencer template with a little stuff I needed on the side.
Overall the SKill point conversion was great. Thanks for letting us put the points in any profession. The only major concern I have is putting togther a decent template to help me level the jedi and having it badly nerfed in the Combat Balance. It would be a incredible waste of time and frustrating to select a template now not knowing if it will be badly nerfed. Any insight here would be great.
I alsocould not dismantle my sabers with crystals. The all Pearl ones came out fine, I was suprised with the amount of force needed to tune the pearls.
Hopefully I can do some testing tomorrow. Overall the little time I spent went smooth.
Thanks!
Derp
Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:21 am
#33
Of 6 different posts stating different old system skill level, and the skill points available in the conversion process, the following chart is validated by 5/6 posts. This is an attempt to determine jedi skill points that will be made available to you if you are at a given level when the conversion happens, its based on a limited sample pool and may not be accurate. (mastering a tree is 89 skill points in the new system, see: http://swgexplorer.dras.us/tc9/force_discipline_light_saber.htmfor complete skill point costs in new system)
Master (no ones posted, so would only be speculation based on Initiate and Apprentice trees)
Knight ?
level 4 8 8 8 8
level 3 6 6 6 6
level 2 4 4 4 4
level 1 2 2 2 2
Apprentice 5
Padawan 1
level 4 6 6 6 6
level3 4 4 4 4
level2 2 2 2 2
level1 1 1 1 1
Initiate 5
Nind
Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:22 am
#34
TheLateAnakinSolo wrote:
I'll repost again, so you can see it. Please read it, and note it. You can't ignore hard numbers.
Padawan boxes (at 40k an hour average)
1 hour for the lightsaber boxes.
35 hours for the healing tree.
35 hours for the force tree.
35 hours for the man tree.
38 hours for the padawan box.
Total Hours: 144 (at 3 hours a day, 48 days)(at 6 hours a day, 24 days)
KnightBoxes (at 133k an hour)
24 hours for the novice box.
2 hours lightsaber tree.
22 hours for healing
22 hours for force
22 hours for man
24 hours for master box
Total Hours: 116 (at 3 hours a day, 39 days)(at 6 hours a day, 20 days)(28 hour difference)
Guardian boxes(at200k an hour)
2 hours for the lightsaber boxes.
15 hours for the healing line
15 hours for the force line.
15 hours for the man line
(master box at 3.2 mil if fixed)
16 hours.
Total Hours: 63 hours (at 3 hours a day, 21 days)(at 6 hours a day, 11 days)(53 hour difference)
Total Hours for Jedi: 323 (at 3 hours a day, 108 days)(at 6 hours a day, 54 days)
% for each.
Padawan = 45% of all hours.
Knight = 36% of all hours. (9% difference)
Guardian = 19% of all hours. (17% difference)
!!!NOTE THIS!!!
Conversion Rate:
Padawan Boxes (45% of old * 250)
112 Skill Points.
Apprentice Boxes (36% of old * 250)
90 Skill Points.
Guardian Boxes (19% of old * 250)
48 Skill Points.
EASY WAY TO EVEN OUT SKILL POINTS!
THIS would be a regular TIME vs. SKILL conversion
Note: Tree is in skill point numbers.
Padawan boxes.
--------12---------
1-9-9-9
1-7-7-7
1-5-5-5
1-3-3-3
--------24---------
Knight boxes
--------19---------
1-7-7-7
1-5-5-5
1-3-3-3
1-1-1-1
--------19----------
Master boxes
---------0-----------
1-5-5-5
1-3-3-3
1-1-1-1
1-1-1-1
---------14------------
Used all skill points, and everything works out for the "total hours put in"
I'll keep telling you that you've got it wrong, until you change the skill point conversion from that of above.
/sign
Probobly the best idea trugh the whole Revamp...
Th, R5 and G... listen to him!
Derp
Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:26 am
#35
Of 6 different posts stating different old system skill level, and the skill points available in the conversion process, the following chart is validated by 5/6 posts. This is an attempt to determine jedi skill points that will be made available to you if you are at a given level when the conversion happens, its based on a limited sample pool and may not be accurate. (mastering a tree is 89 skill points in the new system, see: http://swgexplorer.dras.us/tc9/force_discipline_light_saber.htmfor complete skill point costs in new system)
Master (no ones posted, so would only be speculation based on Initiate and Apprentice trees)
Skill PointAwards per Old System SkillBox
Knight ?
level 4 8 8 8 8
level 3 6 6 6 6
level 2 4 4 4 4
level 1 2 2 2 2
Apprentice 5
Padawan 1
level 4 6 6 6 6
level3 4 4 4 4
level2 2 2 2 2
level1 1 1 1 1
Initiate 5
(note it is impossible to say for sure with the samples provided how the 6 points between Padawan and Apprentice boxes are divided, it could be 5-1 just as easily as 1-5, or any other combo totalling 6.)
Chut
Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:34 am
#36
TC-Corbantis conversion test.
Went very well for me.
was able to bring up the skill window and take my time to decide what to pick.
When I converted I received 57 points to spend on jedi boxes to pick.
After I picked 0044 LS and one other novice box I had used 56 of the 57 points.
So lost 1 box point.
Suggestion: convert left over box points to experience? I came off not too bad with 1 pt, some others lost more than that.
The picking part is the most intuitive.
The most non-intuitive part are the force sensitive skills and how they apply to other skills in the system. I'm not really sure how different FS skills 'stack' or effect jedi skills.
Derp
Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:35 am
#37
Chut, Exactly what level were you in the old system before you converted?
makimus
Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:55 am
#38
TheLateAnakinSolo wrote:
I'll repost again, so you can see it. Please read it, and note it. You can't ignore hard numbers.
Padawan boxes (at 40k an hour average)
1 hour for the lightsaber boxes.
35 hours for the healing tree.
35 hours for the force tree.
35 hours for the man tree.
38 hours for the padawan box.
Total Hours: 144 (at 3 hours a day, 48 days)(at 6 hours a day, 24 days)
KnightBoxes (at 133k an hour)
24 hours for the novice box.
2 hours lightsaber tree.
22 hours for healing
22 hours for force
22 hours for man
24 hours for master box
Total Hours: 116 (at 3 hours a day, 39 days)(at 6 hours a day, 20 days)(28 hour difference)
Guardian boxes(at200k an hour)
2 hours for the lightsaber boxes.
15 hours for the healing line
15 hours for the force line.
15 hours for the man line
(master box at 3.2 mil if fixed)
16 hours.
Total Hours: 63 hours (at 3 hours a day, 21 days)(at 6 hours a day, 11 days)(53 hour difference)
Total Hours for Jedi: 323 (at 3 hours a day, 108 days)(at 6 hours a day, 54 days)
% for each.
Padawan = 45% of all hours.
Knight = 36% of all hours. (9% difference)
Guardian = 19% of all hours. (17% difference)
!!!NOTE THIS!!!
Conversion Rate:
Padawan Boxes (45% of old * 250)
112 Skill Points.
Apprentice Boxes (36% of old * 250)
90 Skill Points.
Guardian Boxes (19% of old * 250)
48 Skill Points.
EASY WAY TO EVEN OUT SKILL POINTS!
THIS would be a regular TIME vs. SKILL conversion
Note: Tree is in skill point numbers.
Padawan boxes.
--------12---------
1-9-9-9
1-7-7-7
1-5-5-5
1-3-3-3
--------24---------
Knight boxes
--------19---------
1-7-7-7
1-5-5-5
1-3-3-3
1-1-1-1
--------19----------
Master boxes
---------0-----------
1-5-5-5
1-3-3-3
1-1-1-1
1-1-1-1
---------14------------
Used all skill points, and everything works out for the "total hours put in"
I'll keep telling you that you've got it wrong, until you change the skill point conversion from that of above.
QFE
i do believe thepadawan tree should relinquish alot more sp during conversion, seeing as it is alot harder and time consumingto level through initiate than it is to go through apprentice and guardian.
maybe not as much as TheLateAnakinSolo says, but more than you guys (the devs) are currently allowing.
i'm sure the picking of skills will go as smooth as it has on test center. which is damn smooth.
mochloD
Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:18 am
#39
Stop listing Jedi XP and comparing the old system and the new system. They pulled all the new xp numbers out of their butts, it doesnt matter. We are losing skills plain and simple. The Initiate to Padawan road is more difficult than the Apprentice to Knight or Guardian to 4444 roads, any Knight or Guardian will tell you this. Going from 4334 with ALL THOSE OTHER SKILLS to something like 0042 in the lightsaber line blows chunks.
Fatcheen wrote:
Well 4/3/3/4 Initiate in the current system is..
2,750,000 Jedi XP and 117,500 saber xp.
The saber xp converts to 11,750 jedi XP.
So grand total jedi XP is : 2,867,500
And he said he got 45 skill points, which was good enough for 0/0/4/2 in the lightsaber line, and that's 3,680,000 xp.