Development Cycle Archive

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silversaber wrote:

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RougeSmuggler wrote:

I have been a covert since release. While I wish I could PvP, there is no real GCW in SWG at the moment, so i'm waiting it out untill something fun can actually be implemented.

Still, as a covert I have never been killed by a TEF gained from a faction mission. I've fought incities all over the galaxy, from Moenia, to Coronet. When attacking Imperial NPCs I know to keep an eye out for any approaching red dots for the sort duration of my TEF. I am aware of the consequences that face me for engaging in the GCW. And I know that the Emperor will not tolerate people killing his soldiers, he will do everything in his grasp to prevent this.

As a covert I have been TEF'd from a Covert Scanner once and I was not killed. I know to avoid Imperial Bases, and Imperial Aligned cities. And if I can't, then I stay away from Covert Scanners. In the event that i'm TEFd I simply keep a look out untill the timer runs out.

As a covert I have never been successfully scanned by an Imperial patrol. Everytime it says I fail the scan, yet nothing happens.

As a covert I have never encountered a wandering Probot droid in the wilderness.

There is alot of misinformation on the life of a Covert. It is incredibly easy to avoid all PvP combat in this game, yet still participate in the PvE GCW. I am sure throughout the course of playing SWG, there are those unlucky times, that you stumble upon a group of Overt Imperials when you have a TEF. But this is the risk you take for participating in the GCW. And the actual consequence for dying to a PvP death is minimal, the only thing you lose is the position in the world you were at the time of your death. With vehicles and Player City Shuttleports recovering the distance to where you once were is not an issue.

-red

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Id say that you are probably one of the mostlucky players I have met.

Tell me , whats your secret?

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There is no secret. I like to PvP but I am still covert most of the time. I have NEVER been attacked with a TEF before. I mean seriously, if you want to avoid PvP then you CAN do it. There are so many NPC ghost cities, PC ghost cities, faction outposts,and bases in the wilderness that you will never run into a threat.

I don't buy this argument about grief either. I am an active PvP and it has never even happened to me. Don't be paranoid. I mean it does happen but not nearly enough to throw out the TEF system. Most someone will do is laugh at your corpse and it usually isn't even the attacker, but some random guy walking by.

Only thing I even agree with you on is the fact that players should not be turned overt by scans. But I do think they should get a plain, old fashioned TEF. Or maybe temporary overtness. At least while overt you can see a red dot coming at you instead of a blue one.

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silversaber wrote:

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KrYpToFoX wrote:
Silver? Why dont you address my wanting to defend my commards in arms(as I noted in the post above)? Why would you deny me this right?

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Because I cannot take the fact that someone would want to "defend" NPC's seriously.

Are they going to thank you? heck no.

For roleplaying? I have yet to see anyone truely roleplay in this game.

I dont take this as a valid arguement. They are NPC's, content generated by the computer for the strict purpose of being another players target.

All I see it is being an excuse for you to attack me, which I dont appreciate at all.

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silversaber wrote:

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KrYpToFoX wrote:
Silver? Why dont you address my wanting to defend my commards in arms(as I noted in the post above)? Why would you deny me this right?

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Because I cannot take the fact that someone would want to "defend" NPC's seriously.

Are they going to thank you? heck no.

For roleplaying? I have yet to see anyone truely roleplay in this game.

I dont take this as a valid arguement. They are NPC's, content generated by the computer for the strict purpose of being another players target.

All I see it is being an excuse for you to attack me, which I dont appreciate at all.

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Thunderheart wrote:

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uofwi92 wrote:

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Thunderheart wrote:

This has been a really great thread and new discussions are still popping up.

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Paulie35 wrote:
Remove TEF. If a player does not want to PvP they should not have to.

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If we did that, it would dramatically change things. As it stands, people don't ever have to play PvP. They can remain Neutral and never have to be involved. Declaring Covert means a player primarily wants to play GCW PvE. There are certain actions that will push them to Overt status or put them at risk, but in each case, its a choice the player makes to get involved.

Should that risk not be part of the conflict? It was something that players strongly requested pre-launch.

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I agree with this poster. I hated nothing more than when I was a noob killing stuff in the Imperial Research Facility on Naboo, just trying to level up and get some decent loot when a master Imperial would show up and wax us because we were TEF'ed. I never made the choice to fight this person, but I had to because I was killing Imp NPCs.

This does, however, create a divide between overt and the rest of the game. If you're not overt, you shouldn't be able to heal someone who is (ala gtef). I think you should be able to trade, though... /shrug

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What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?

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That is punishment for gaining rank. That is wrong. You need to reward people for gaining rank, not punish them.

Here are the solutions to the real TEF problems.

1: If you are covert, you should not be able to heal or otherwise assist an overt player. If you are covert you made the choice to avoid PvP. Healing, buffing, or reviving an Overt player is activly, if indirectly,participating in PvP.

2: You should not get a TEF against somebody fighting a member of your group. If it is a GCW battle you should have to be overt,accepting the risks that go along with it,to join. If it is mission based PvP (BH missions) It should be between the BH and the Mark, other players who do not share the risks of that system should not be able to interfear.

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NoxDenosis wrote:

tefs are T E H worst idea ever they are ub3r l33t lam3

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AudioOrgana wrote:

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silversaber wrote:I have stated many time over the years, and you PvPrs always loose the point and just boil it down to fear. Fear and being afraid has no bearing in the matter. Nor is it the desire of having no consequences. It is something far different.

Well, you just proved that you haven't read at all what I have had to say on the topic.

I ahve read it, I merely disagree with it.

If you had, you would know that I AM NOT a PvP player.

I guess I did miss this. You argue so hardfor PvP I guess itwas reallyeasy for me tooverlook that fact.

I rarely PvP. However, I do play as part of a faction. Because of that, VERY OCCASIONALLY, I am exposed to it and I accept that as a consequence of playing SWG.

Im glad you accept this consequence. But many, includeing me donot.

The problem is that you have yourself so worked up over this you cannot see how it practically works in game - and I'm sorry, but I do sense a great deal of fear in your postings.

Yea, you can positively smell the fear in me right? And again youdistort myoutright rejection into fear, because you cannot see it in any other light. I guess this will always be.

You are so opposed to the IDEA of PvP that you totally ignore how it works practically.

Your right.

If TEFs did not exist, a squadron of Imperial players could happen by you blasting away an Imperial structure and do nothing about it. That would make this game about as dynamic and interesting as checkers.

I think you mean Rebel Players blasting away and Imperial structure, and your right it affects me in no way whatsoever. If it was a computer generated structure, then it was spawned for the express purpose of being destroyed by players. Thats PvE.

There are TONS of things you can do to prevent PvP. For starters, do faction missions somewhere other than a major city. If you don't want to be found out for your rebel actions, don't perform them in high-traffic areas.

And I contend that this should not be necessary. I should not have to restrict where I play at just because there are no PvP players there. Thats my whole purpose of argueing here on this thread. I want this game to be opened up to PvE players to have fun, not be restricted to a few corners of the game.

You have this fear of being "bashed over the head" as you call it - to begin with, I don't see how it's different if you get ganked by a Imperial NPC or an Imperial Player, but regardless - but refuse to acknowledge that there are steps you can take to prevent it, even if you DO get a TEF.

Finally, if someone is truly "destroying" your game experience, get ahold of Customer Service. If you don't think that's effective, then you should direct your energy toward getting an improved Customer Service system, not turning Star WARS into Star "I wanna shoot at what I want with no consequences".

Customer service. HAHAHAhaha yea right! You split my side with that one!

In every game I have ever played, its "Customer Service" has been anemic and ineffectual in policing PvP.

The only thing that could have let me accept it was the old Outcasting rules. Instant policing with no CS to bungle the job.

Again, I'm not a PvP player. But I understand this as part of playing SWG. You have yet to say ANYTHING but rhetoric and allusion. You don't like PvP. I personally don't like forced grouping, nor having to go to Theed and Coronet just to find a medic. But it's part of SWG, and something that I accept about the game - it may not cater directly to my playstyle, and it forces me to make some choices (sacrifice my skill points to get medic myself, or take a flight to where healers are).

Your compareing apples to oranges Audio. PvP is far different to having to have to group or have a Medic attend you. Both of those examples are players supporting other players. PvP is the complete opposite.

You have made it clear that your prefered playstyle does not include PvP - that's great. The mechanics for you to play that playstyle are already in game. It's no ones fault but your own that you make that choice - I believe that you are making it without the accurate information, and that your decision is much more emotional than practical - but it's a choice you are making nonetheless.

And I still attend that there are not enough choices for all playstyles. The choice of not joining a Faction to avoid PvP is not enough of a choice.

AO

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silversaber wrote:

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AudioOrgana wrote:

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silversaber wrote:I have stated many time over the years, and you PvPrs always loose the point and just boil it down to fear. Fear and being afraid has no bearing in the matter. Nor is it the desire of having no consequences. It is something far different.

Well, you just proved that you haven't read at all what I have had to say on the topic.

I ahve read it, I merely disagree with it.

If you had, you would know that I AM NOT a PvP player.

I guess I did miss this. You argue so hardfor PvP I guess itwas reallyeasy for me tooverlook that fact.

I rarely PvP. However, I do play as part of a faction. Because of that, VERY OCCASIONALLY, I am exposed to it and I accept that as a consequence of playing SWG.

Im glad you accept this consequence. But many, includeing me donot.

The problem is that you have yourself so worked up over this you cannot see how it practically works in game - and I'm sorry, but I do sense a great deal of fear in your postings.

Yea, you can positively smell the fear in me right? And again youdistort myoutright rejection into fear, because you cannot see it in any other light. I guess this will always be.

You are so opposed to the IDEA of PvP that you totally ignore how it works practically.

Your right.

If TEFs did not exist, a squadron of Imperial players could happen by you blasting away an Imperial structure and do nothing about it. That would make this game about as dynamic and interesting as checkers.

I think you mean Rebel Players blasting away and Imperial structure, and your right it affects me in no way whatsoever. If it was a computer generated structure, then it was spawned for the express purpose of being destroyed by players. Thats PvE.

There are TONS of things you can do to prevent PvP. For starters, do faction missions somewhere other than a major city. If you don't want to be found out for your rebel actions, don't perform them in high-traffic areas.

And I contend that this should not be necessary. I should not have to restrict where I play at just because there are no PvP players there. Thats my whole purpose of argueing here on this thread. I want this game to be opened up to PvE players to have fun, not be restricted to a few corners of the game.

You have this fear of being "bashed over the head" as you call it - to begin with, I don't see how it's different if you get ganked by a Imperial NPC or an Imperial Player, but regardless - but refuse to acknowledge that there are steps you can take to prevent it, even if you DO get a TEF.

Finally, if someone is truly "destroying" your game experience, get ahold of Customer Service. If you don't think that's effective, then you should direct your energy toward getting an improved Customer Service system, not turning Star WARS into Star "I wanna shoot at what I want with no consequences".

Customer service. HAHAHAhaha yea right! You split my side with that one!

In every game I have ever played, its "Customer Service" has been anemic and ineffectual in policing PvP.

The only thing that could have let me accept it was the old Outcasting rules. Instant policing with no CS to bungle the job.

Again, I'm not a PvP player. But I understand this as part of playing SWG. You have yet to say ANYTHING but rhetoric and allusion. You don't like PvP. I personally don't like forced grouping, nor having to go to Theed and Coronet just to find a medic. But it's part of SWG, and something that I accept about the game - it may not cater directly to my playstyle, and it forces me to make some choices (sacrifice my skill points to get medic myself, or take a flight to where healers are).

Your compareing apples to oranges Audio. PvP is far different to having to have to group or have a Medic attend you. Both of those examples are players supporting other players. PvP is the complete opposite.

You have made it clear that your prefered playstyle does not include PvP - that's great. The mechanics for you to play that playstyle are already in game. It's no ones fault but your own that you make that choice - I believe that you are making it without the accurate information, and that your decision is much more emotional than practical - but it's a choice you are making nonetheless.

And I still attend that there are not enough choices for all playstyles. The choice of not joining a Faction to avoid PvP is not enough of a choice.

AO

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Message Edited by BaronJedi on 07-12-2004 06:06 PM

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-SanGreal- wrote:
Get rid of Coverts.

Seriosly, I haven't PVPed in 9 or 10 months, but its a stupid system. Its a war for (insert deity)'s sake. If you decide to choose sides you need to be open to attack from the opposite side at all times. It is disgusting to see rebels and imperials mingling and exchanging weapons like they're good friends. The game has a neutral faction for a reason.

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