Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Friday Feature Pt 2 May 7th 2004 Jedi Archives Volume II
Please, we need an answer to this!
Oddly enough, the old Prima Strategy Guide lists the lightsaber as the only melee weapon that deals energy damage. To meenergyis the logical damage type of the lightsaber. Either that or possibly heat.
Thunderheart wrote:
speardancer wrote:
how about adjusting it depending on what components are in use?
Thunderheart wrote:
Atiw wrote:
Just one question.
Will sabers still do kinetic damage?
There is no mention of the saber damage type in this at all.
Dont know. We're working to see whats possible.
Thats a really great mechanic. I'll see if its possible given the code restraints....
Eryk wrote:
Arayden wrote:
It's a game, not a recreation of the Star Wars movies. If there are more Jedi alive in this fictional timeline versus the "authentic" fictional timeline,then so be it. We all play this game for the same reason ultimately, to have fun.Dont you thinkit's fair to assume thatjust about everyone (I'll wager at least 95-98%) of the population is at least intriguied by the possiblity of playing a Jedi.Sowouldnt it make sense thatevery player should have an equal chance to play as a Jedi? It's only fair, right?. I personally would enjoy a game that is more "fun" then a game that attempts to mimic the exact storyline told in the movies.
Now lets go with your theory of there being "too many Jedi" in the universe. If every single player on a Galaxy had a Jedi character, that would amount to what? 1500-2500 Jedi characters, as a rough estimate. That seems phenominal, right? What if you compare that number to a single populated planet in the Star Wars Universe? Say Courescant*sp?* which has .... billions if not trillions of inhabitaints. And that is just looking at one single planet. Granted these characters are all clustered between a small spread of planets,so it gives the image of a saturation of Jedi Players.
I understand this is a game Arayden. This IS, however, set in the Star Wars time period where Jedi are rare, possibly non-existant. That may not mean much to you, but to me, it does. It is my opinion - end of line.
Do you think its fun to have tons of Jedi running around? How much fun is it if half of the population is running around being Jedi? So, out of 30+ classes you can be, more than 25% would be one class - Jedi. That is disgustingly disproportionate, don't you think? How can you argue any other way? I realize that my numbers are only estimates, but they are conservative estimates.
And by your numbers of 95-98%, that makes this game Jedi Wars. Why would you want that, everyone being the same thing? I just don't understand you or your logic. I'd love to see your side of things, but it just doesn't make sense in a MMORPG world to me. Out of 30+ classes, one would be disproportionately higher than the others. And by a large percentage.
1500-2500 Jedi per server, huh? How many people do you think are on a server at a given time? About three thousand, give or take a few hundred. You don't think that would be a bit overwhelming? What math class did you come from?
Too many Jedi conflicts with part of the reason I play this game, to be part of the Star Wars Universe. cannot be part of the Star Wars universe during this time period if there are tons of Jedi being uber running around. The Devs are going to screw this one up too - they have little concept for how things actually work. (See Player Cities being filled on first day if you want a reference) All in all, just because YOU don't care if tons of Jedi running around, doesn't mean I shouldn't care. I do care, and that would guarantee me not playing this game anymore. I'm paid thru August, so we shall see if I renew.
Why, oh why, can't people just go play Jedi Academy if they want to be Jedi? Why doesn't SOE and the Devs see this? Because, they are too busy seeing $$$.
It would be nice if some things weren't ruled by the almighty dollar.
Interesting thread. I'm new, but I like the changes that are proposed.
The path to becoming a jedi should be mysterious, not some hologrind. Hologrinding is ridiculous and took away so much enjoyment from the game. When one goes into a catina, it shouldn't be filled with afk macroers but with folks one can interact with. This aspect will come back to the game. 
The server economy will become very skewed if the majority of the population becomes jedi. Jedi don't need armor. They will have the new robes. They make their own lightsabers. So they don't need to buy weapons. Are you folks starting to see what's going to occur? Jedi will exist completely outside the normal craft system with the possible exception of buying doc buffs en masse out in the wilderness (assuming they can't buff themselves) and possibly using spice (though I somehow feel jedi shouldn't benefit much from illicit drug use).
What about looted force pearls or crystals. Interesting ideas concerning this. Maybe they should be only jedi-lootable. Maybe they should be able to be traded. Making them traded and cost a lot has the advantage of forcing jedi to play their non-jedi characters a bit in order to obtain these goods and consequently reduces the number of jedi in play on the server at any given time. This might be good for the game and the overall experience. I realize that jedi don't like it. I don't blame them. But sometimes things have to suck a bit for the uber player in order for everyone to have fun. I hope jedi players will be open to that possibility.
How to convince people that not everyone should be a jedi? Make the padawan weaker than elite combat professions and force jedi knights to be PVP. For those jedi who don't want to be PVP and only want force sensitives to be able to detect you...please realize that in the new system almost everyone will be force sensitive. Perhaps sensitive enough to tell who the jedi are and what side of the force they use. That doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me. I wonder whether neutrals will be allowed to attack jedi who recently use the force. I.e., does the force also still give a TEF?
I have a proposal that I hope the devs and other players will consider: Make "jedi" equivalent to a race itself after passage of the jedi knight trials. They get the same HAM and can move it just as freely with image design regardless of starting race. So the folks who started a character like a Bothan that they think has stats that "suck" for being a jedi will have no complaint. And if they want a new char name for their jedi...that's too bad. They've earned their reputation in the player community and should have to live with it.
Regarding the voting...I think whether this is good or bad depends on who gets to vote and how much "force points" decay. If the decay rate is such that only those who have been successful in pvp in the past week or two qualify for master and that all those qualifying...knights not masters...get to vote...I don't see why folks would complain. Think about it...the votes will at least somewhat be based on PvP skills. Light jedi don't want to give "master" power to folks who will only get killed easily against the dark jedi. That would mean the downfall of the light jedi...experience loss for many in the next wave of the jedi portion of the GCW.
I actually think it would be nice if there were more light masters than dark masters but the individual power of the dark masters were greater. Of course I haven't unlocked and have no plans to hologrind. And my main is non-human.
Thunderheart wrote:
John_DuMar wrote:
Thunderheart i've read all the posts in this topic and the one question that really stands out is - WILL CRYSTALS AND PEARLS BE AQUIRED IN THE SAME WAY AS THEY ARE NOW?
No, but the design on how they will be dropping is happening as we speak, so I have no hints.
Shellfish Crystal Harvesting Tool? 
Aren't they known as "Adegan Crystals" in the fiction? One of the delivery quests in game says something about someone hoping they found some deposit of "Adegan Crystals". I think the Sith were able to make somekind of improved version of it too.
If it's still up in the air, here are a couple ideas:
1) Make finding a crystal part of a random (hand) sampling event that happens when sampling crystalline gemstone.
2) Allow jedi to /forcesurvey and /forcesample commands similar in function to those granted at novice artisan. A jedi could then find their own resources. Harvesters would not recognize the crystals, as the force is required to locate them.
Adegan crystals of different types (and stats)could show up as resources for Jedi. "Tuning" a crystal could involve crafting Adegan crystals (of some quantity) into a "Lightsaber Crystal" crafted item. A large random factor would keep all sabers from being equal.
As Jedi advance in skills, they could be granted schematics for different colored crystals (as Luke's saber changed colors through the movie). Red sabers would result only from Sith crystals. Different colored crystals would have trade-offs in speed, damage, force-cost, etc. Very powerful Jedi would use the high damage / slow speed crystals as they would be able to compensate with their other skill mods.
This solution would allow for re-using much of the existing code for sampling, crafting, and schematics. In a pinch, a Jedi could quickly find any old crystals from which to tune a lightsaber crystal. Truly making a good saber, however,could take a long time to locate good resources. (Sampling by hand done only by a fraction of the population). A schematic for a Jedi-only tool would probably be the easiest way to add this vs. hiding it from other survey tools.
"Once I've gained my second character slot, both character slots are immediately eligible to gain force sensitive skills and become Jedi?"
No. The new character slot will be a standard character. You can choose to go through the Force Sensitive quests again to allow that character to advance their Force abilities, but the entire quest line will need to be repeated with all the normal restraints. "
)
Thunderheart wrote:how about adjusting it depending on what components are in use?
Atiw wrote:
Just one question.
Will sabers still do kinetic damage?
There is no mention of the saber damage type in this at all.Dont know. We're working to see whats possible.
Sorry - not possible at this time, but the devs are looking at some interesting solutions
Instead of trying to change the existing kinetic weapons and schematics, why don't you just create a new, additional lightsaber schematic that has a damage type other than kinetic?
I understand that changing existing weapon damage is difficult, but it seems that creating new weapons is straightforward.
The Devil is in the Details, or so it's said...
Am I the only guy who read the article with a sinking heart? Initially, my thoughts were that existing Jedi must be royally p1ssed; they spend countless months grinding away and now it seems anyone can start along the path straight outta the box.
Sure the existing Jedi are'compensated' (to a degree, after a fashion...) but it isn't enough, I'd hazard a guess. Not nearly enough.
And then I got to thinking...weren't Jedi supposed to be *rare* during the original trilogy...actually, scratch that. They were all dead barring Luke, Leia, Vader, Kenobi, Palpatine, and Yoda. So how is it that we'll likely see more saber-jocks running around after Pub.10than at the finale of Episode II?
"We realize that this may lead to lots of characters with varying amounts of Force abilities wielding lightsabers. We're sensitive to the continuity..."
May lead?!? Will lead, have no doubt about that. And as for being sensitive...sure, hencealmost30 years of established SW lore is out the window.
"...but we're also trying to make a fun game in which many of you can fulfill your destiny and become lightsaber-wielding Jedi."
Many of you?!?! Say it like it is, all of you. NO-ONE is going to pass this up - me included. But it won't be the same; part of wanting to be a Jedi for me was its exclusivity, its secrecy, its difficulty. I'll be the first to admit that Hologrinding was not the way to do it as far as the mythos was concerned, but these changes seem even worse in that respect. Enclaves? Mass Force-Sensitivity? Vader would have needed to take on more staff and have had at least 3 more Super Star Destoryers just to keep tabs on all the newly-minted Jedi.
Yes indeed, hologrinding did need to go, agreed. But at least it simulated the extreme difficulty and dedication needed to start the Jedi path, let alone master it. Now it seems you sign up in some kind of Summer Camp and *boom*, before to long you're giving it large with your robes and saber. Yes, that's an over-simplification, but at a basic level, that's exactly what we're getting.
This isn't intended as a flame.I deeply care about SWG and really enjoy it, but honestly I think Publish10 will be momentous for all the wrong reasons.I know the Devs are really trying to give us what we want...but here they've given us far too much. This ain't the way, I really doubt it. What would I do? I'm not pretending I have any answers, I just wanted to see whether anyone shares my misgivings. One thing I know could work is if they shifted the timeline back a generation to Episodes I, II, and III. Then I guess this Jedi system would make some kind of sense. But they won't do that, because it's the classic original trilogy that sells this game to the majority of players.
Seems to me that the future is this: Jedi are gonna be just like every other composite-clad BH you ever saw, a dime a dozen at any given starport.And being so commonplacemeans they won't be too special anymore.
And that just ain't Star Wars, baby.
Just read some related responses on previous pages (man, long thread!), and wanted to add:
i) Those of you saying, "Hey, it's all square with the timeline, the galaxy is a limitles space and there could be thousands of Jedi out there!"
a) Fine and dandy if you're talking about the expanded universe as portrayed in the literature; that happens to be a non-interactive story, and people like Timothy Zahn can get away with it because they write superbly. Whereitfalls down in SWG is that*I'm* living in this galaxy and I doubt any one schmuck would be so lucky as to meet a single Jedi in his entire life. Whereaspost-publish it seems I'll be tripping over the buggers on the way to the Cantina.
ii) "It's a game, it's not strictly based on the movies!"
a) It's a STAR WARS game. Hence expectatations should be met. As a player you are buying into the mythos, or at least you would be if the Devs hadn'tbasically re-written it from the ground up. If you didn't like the Jedi's rarity and difficulty, there were plenty other MMOs out there begging for your dollar.
*Sigh*
The changes would be great if this was SWG: THE CLONE WARS. But it's (or was...) SWG: AN EMPIRE DIVIDED. For a reason, I'd have thought. Though the Devs seem to have forgotten what that reason was...
Regardless, Publish 10 is coming and we'll all be able to make objective judgements then. But honestly, I have a bad feeling about it.