Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Should Force Sensitivity be a known path or a mysterious one? (II)
Angel-Catcher
Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:43 am
#352
The path should be known the devs need to do a better job at making customers happy.
Any more holo grind crap type junk from the devs and I will quit and never come back to this game. Talk about BAD JOB devs you already failed one to many times with your ch over nerf and holo grind crap.
Earymi
Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:43 am
#353
Before all the hologrinding totally screwed up the game, I would have voted for "mysterious". Now that I'm apparently playing Jedi Galaxies and jedi have become a dime a dozen, it would be an outrage for those of us who refused to screw up our characters by hologrinding to make the path to force sensitivity "mysterious".
I'm imagining that in order to balance the game to accommodate the over-abundance of jedi, anyone who is not at least FS much less jedi will be relatively useless. For that reason, I'm also assuming I'm going to have to pursue the questing path to FS and jedi. If it's made so mysterious that it's impossible to find and figure out, I'm not sure how long those of us who are neither jedi nor FS will continue to be interested in this game.
Stooby
Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:49 am
#354
I have a question for everyone that is saying the path should be known;
How known?
Are you suggesting there should be a direct route to the Force? A quest that anyone can do and then be Force sensitive? Because when I hear the word "known," that's what i'm thinking of. It's also something I really don't want to see because I don't want the amount of Jedi on the servers to increase even more.
Necthyle
Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:50 am
#355
Before Hologrinding was all hyped i would've said chose the mysterious way,but now i would say choose a path which everybody knows,which everybody can do,regardless on the profession he has.i would even go that far to say,make Jedi-class selectable,when you create a new char 
With Publish 9,Jedi turned from something special into something common,like the Bounty Hunters, Docs and Entertainers.They got degraded into a common combat prof like all others
With Publish 9,Jedi turned from something special into something common,like the Bounty Hunters, Docs and Entertainers.They got degraded into a common combat prof like all others
murgun
Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:51 am
#356
The thing is everybody looking for new quest based system,but as many people like me playing many months here has mastered alot proffesions,how muchwill be credited.if the new system based on to much mysterious ,and even hard to understand and consist alot of puzzles etc. it can be take months a jedi and this will go unfair and boring like an adventure game for a person who mastered alot of proff and still no jedi. and being so mysterious is almost imposibble at this game if someone knows something everybody knows.
i think known path can be more thinkable because everybody wants to know what he wanted so can work,my idea is known path but takes time alot depending a chracters level. because there should be differencess between a newbie player and experienced one .
and one thing again please.give a good creditpeople here alot proff mastered and still no jedi before patch,i think they deserve this.
good luck and may the force be with us (we need this)
Songe
Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:54 am
#357
I'm mixed on the subject. As much as I think it would have been better to make it a mystery right from the start (and not in the hologrinding way), I think that it's too late now, and if you don't want to make it unfair for the players who are not Jedi yet it needs to be known.
Stooby
Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:56 am
#358
I would imagine that whatever mechanic the Dev's put in to find the Force, they would be able to credit those who have played for a long time.
Just because it's a mystery to the players does not mean they can't be credited with progress.
RamhornSWG
Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:58 am
#359
Uh .... Duh.
Well if you currently have a Jedi you would want the path to be unknown.
IF you currently dont have a Jedi you would want it known.
Designing a MMMOG where one profession is more powerful than the rest means a majority of players will become Jedi.
If there is no alternative templete in terms of powerto aJedi and the ability to become one is blocked or unreasonable you will lose a large portion of the non-Jedi player base.
Once a Jedi templete is established as the "best" for PvE looting and PvP no other setup will be viable.
A better idea is to make second class called Nightsister that is available to everyone. The same powerlevel as a Jedi but no secret to become.
Then you could make Jedi a mystery because a non-Jedi player would have an alternative.
Making a game where one class is more powerful than everyone else ensures given enough time everyone interested in PvP or looting high-end mobs will become that class.
Jordan_Karr
Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:00 am
#361
The path to get to the Lesser Force skills should be known where to start, but then it gets randomized in the order of how it is completed. It should be involved and take a few weeks to complete. But each step should be very direct about what they have to do in order to complete the quests.
Also Please make sure that the code That IDed our holocrons will be used in order to give us extra credit on the quest so that we can say well at least we dont have to do this part and this part...
And for the LOVE of God... Please dont make it nothing but go kill this monster here and then give an item to this NPC... People will have to do that when they get to jedi padawan and when they start on jedi knight...
Dont make it boreing... Make it intersting...
Who ever is the bright person who keeps thinking that Killing enhanced HAM Creatures are the HIGHER End Content had better not be in charge of the The Path to Force Sensitive....
wobbl
Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:02 am
#362
Mysterious unknown and not easy - if not swg will become a jedi wars
groovysplat101
Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:03 am
#363
It should be unknown, but fair. I personally think the "grind every profession" system is stupid. Putting caps on numbers is stupid. Some people don't like grinding. Some people can't get on often enough to grind. Yet, they pay the same for this game. How come they're being discriminated against?
The path to becoming a Jedi needs to be a personal one, and not dependant on how long you've played the game, or how much free time you've got on your hands to let you grind everything. There are three ways of doing it. You can be realistic, you can be eliteist, or you can be fair.
Realistic - you're either Force Sensitive, or you are not. When you start the game, you are randomly selected as Force Sensitive, or not. There are ways of finding out if you are...talking to Yoda or something would probably do it.
Eliteist - only the best players, or the oldest players, or the ones that have played the game the most are able to become Jedi. Like you have now. Think about how long it takes to grind each profession. Add that up. You'll have to have played the game AT LEAST that long to get Jedi. Most people will want to actually play the game and have fun along the way, too. That means you have to have played even longer.
Fair - Everyone deserves the opportunity to become a Jedi, yes. It doesn't matter if you're a retired Swordsman, Fencer, Pikeman, Doctor, Combat Medic, Squad Leader, Bounty Hunter, Commando, Weaponsmith, Armoursmith, Droid Engineer or whatever. You should have the same chance of becoming a Jedi as a Master Smuggler/Pistoleer. I've come up with a system that might fit the bill. It does require a lot of time to do, yes. But its not based on how powerful you are. Its based on your intelect.
The System:
Add a "midichlorian count" as a value to each player. Lets say the average is 200. Randomly, the game generates how far off that value you are, within another 100 either way. So you start off with your count when you begin the game. Your count can be ajusted in many ways. If you go to places that are rich in the Force (where there is lots of Force energy), the badge you recieve for going there boosts your count...you've been exposed to the Force. Each time you kill something (and it has to be something alive), you sense the disturbance in the Force that their death generates...or at least try to, stimulating your MC's to become more active. It would be a steady, progressive scale, that would be going on while you were actually playing the game, so your character could go about their daily business footloose and fancy free.
When you hit the magic number (10,000, perhaps...50 times the average), you have the potential to become a Force Sensitive. But only the potential. Then you enter onto the path to becoming a Jedi. A Force Sensitive is not a Jedi. You have to do several trials, at the culmination of which you become a Jedi Initiate. You then need to find an existing player Jedi to take you on as their Apprentice. The Trials would be like an entrance exam of sorts, where you have to do several tasks (quests) that take a long time, and require you to use your new-found Force Sensitivity. These could be anything, from passing through the cave on Dagobah and fighting whatever lies within,
I would also suggest that the Jedi system be independant of normal skill points. Lets take some examples. Anakin didn't have to forget any of his repair skills in order to become a Jedi. Corran Horn (I, Jedi) didn't forget how to shoot a gun, or be a former CorSec guy. Kyle Katarn (Jedi Knight games) didn't forget how to be a Smuggler when he became a Jedi. Why then, should players in this game? Players should be able to learn how to wield a Lightsaber, perform mind tricks, and so on, without saccrificing any of their other skills. If they are a Master Swordsman, and learn to weild a two-handed Lightsaber, they would be even more powerful. You don't just "forget" how to use things. If you think about it logically, Jedi are supposed to be an underground. Their "profession" would be what they do during the day. Jedi abilities aren't jobs...they're a part of you.
If you tied the number of Jedi Skill Points to what level of Jedi the person was, you could eventually have people like Yoda who were pretty much capable of doing everything. That would not only be realistic, but would provide structure to the game. The number of skill points could relate to your midichlorian count. You need a certain count to move to the next level, and gain more skill points.
I know I'm going a little off-topic here, but my whole system ties in together. Assuming that the Emperor and Vader, being Force-users themselves, know about the presence of midiclorians, isn't it feasable that performing a blood test could let you work out if someone were a Jedi or not? I think that there should be, in the game, "Jedi Registration Centers". If you are Neutral, or an Imperial, and you suspect you may be Force Sensitive, you go to the center and register a blood sample. If you are unregistered, and use Jedi powers while an Imperial-aligned NPC is within a 64m radius, you get set as an enemy to the Empire. This would drive the Jedi back underground (where they should be, realistically), and would actually make it harder to progress as a Jedi...finding another Jedi to be apprenticed to, and actually training would be very dangerous. When registered, if you select a Jedi Title, you get a next to it. If you have a Jedi Title active without the , it makes you "overt" as a Jedi, and able to be attacked by Imperials.
The Jedi should have a faction that goes outside of the Imp/Rebel one. Depending on how you use your powers, and what powers you use, you can gain either Light or Dark Jedi Faction Points. To become a Light Jedi Initiate, you need to have 200 Light Jedi Faction Points. You would gain and use points during your trials on how you deal with different situations. If you kill an innocent creature, you loose Light Jedi points. If the creature is, however, "evil" (aligned with the Dark Side...aka Hostile), you gain points for helping to rid the world of evil. Something like that.
Sorry to ramble on. Stuff just followed in a natural progression inside my head. Sorry to make you read it all.
The path to becoming a Jedi needs to be a personal one, and not dependant on how long you've played the game, or how much free time you've got on your hands to let you grind everything. There are three ways of doing it. You can be realistic, you can be eliteist, or you can be fair.
Realistic - you're either Force Sensitive, or you are not. When you start the game, you are randomly selected as Force Sensitive, or not. There are ways of finding out if you are...talking to Yoda or something would probably do it.
Eliteist - only the best players, or the oldest players, or the ones that have played the game the most are able to become Jedi. Like you have now. Think about how long it takes to grind each profession. Add that up. You'll have to have played the game AT LEAST that long to get Jedi. Most people will want to actually play the game and have fun along the way, too. That means you have to have played even longer.
Fair - Everyone deserves the opportunity to become a Jedi, yes. It doesn't matter if you're a retired Swordsman, Fencer, Pikeman, Doctor, Combat Medic, Squad Leader, Bounty Hunter, Commando, Weaponsmith, Armoursmith, Droid Engineer or whatever. You should have the same chance of becoming a Jedi as a Master Smuggler/Pistoleer. I've come up with a system that might fit the bill. It does require a lot of time to do, yes. But its not based on how powerful you are. Its based on your intelect.
The System:
Add a "midichlorian count" as a value to each player. Lets say the average is 200. Randomly, the game generates how far off that value you are, within another 100 either way. So you start off with your count when you begin the game. Your count can be ajusted in many ways. If you go to places that are rich in the Force (where there is lots of Force energy), the badge you recieve for going there boosts your count...you've been exposed to the Force. Each time you kill something (and it has to be something alive), you sense the disturbance in the Force that their death generates...or at least try to, stimulating your MC's to become more active. It would be a steady, progressive scale, that would be going on while you were actually playing the game, so your character could go about their daily business footloose and fancy free.
When you hit the magic number (10,000, perhaps...50 times the average), you have the potential to become a Force Sensitive. But only the potential. Then you enter onto the path to becoming a Jedi. A Force Sensitive is not a Jedi. You have to do several trials, at the culmination of which you become a Jedi Initiate. You then need to find an existing player Jedi to take you on as their Apprentice. The Trials would be like an entrance exam of sorts, where you have to do several tasks (quests) that take a long time, and require you to use your new-found Force Sensitivity. These could be anything, from passing through the cave on Dagobah and fighting whatever lies within,
I would also suggest that the Jedi system be independant of normal skill points. Lets take some examples. Anakin didn't have to forget any of his repair skills in order to become a Jedi. Corran Horn (I, Jedi) didn't forget how to shoot a gun, or be a former CorSec guy. Kyle Katarn (Jedi Knight games) didn't forget how to be a Smuggler when he became a Jedi. Why then, should players in this game? Players should be able to learn how to wield a Lightsaber, perform mind tricks, and so on, without saccrificing any of their other skills. If they are a Master Swordsman, and learn to weild a two-handed Lightsaber, they would be even more powerful. You don't just "forget" how to use things. If you think about it logically, Jedi are supposed to be an underground. Their "profession" would be what they do during the day. Jedi abilities aren't jobs...they're a part of you.
If you tied the number of Jedi Skill Points to what level of Jedi the person was, you could eventually have people like Yoda who were pretty much capable of doing everything. That would not only be realistic, but would provide structure to the game. The number of skill points could relate to your midichlorian count. You need a certain count to move to the next level, and gain more skill points.
I know I'm going a little off-topic here, but my whole system ties in together. Assuming that the Emperor and Vader, being Force-users themselves, know about the presence of midiclorians, isn't it feasable that performing a blood test could let you work out if someone were a Jedi or not? I think that there should be, in the game, "Jedi Registration Centers". If you are Neutral, or an Imperial, and you suspect you may be Force Sensitive, you go to the center and register a blood sample. If you are unregistered, and use Jedi powers while an Imperial-aligned NPC is within a 64m radius, you get set as an enemy to the Empire. This would drive the Jedi back underground (where they should be, realistically), and would actually make it harder to progress as a Jedi...finding another Jedi to be apprenticed to, and actually training would be very dangerous. When registered, if you select a Jedi Title, you get a next to it. If you have a Jedi Title active without the , it makes you "overt" as a Jedi, and able to be attacked by Imperials.
The Jedi should have a faction that goes outside of the Imp/Rebel one. Depending on how you use your powers, and what powers you use, you can gain either Light or Dark Jedi Faction Points. To become a Light Jedi Initiate, you need to have 200 Light Jedi Faction Points. You would gain and use points during your trials on how you deal with different situations. If you kill an innocent creature, you loose Light Jedi points. If the creature is, however, "evil" (aligned with the Dark Side...aka Hostile), you gain points for helping to rid the world of evil. Something like that.
Sorry to ramble on. Stuff just followed in a natural progression inside my head. Sorry to make you read it all.
FillieForbes
Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:03 am
#364
Perhaps I am the minority but I believe that teh path to sensitivity should be known. My whole reason for playing this game is to wield a lightsaber and remove the arm of the too aggressive Rhodian in the local cantina. To all those who say it sould be a chore to become force-sensitive and even more so for Jedi, I have one thing to say: "This is a game. It is not real life, I have enough chores to do and during downtime (i.e. playing SWG) I should not have to spend months grinding a quest or grinding professions to be able to play as a Jedi."
To satisfy all those who would like it to be a chore, let the player decide on their own path. Let them make the choice ingame whether to have the path revealed to them or have it mysterious. It can be implemented in this means in a number of ways. The Ruined Jedi Temple on Dantooine, the badge reads, "...has discovered the mysteries of the Ruined Jedi Temple"--well make the mystery of the Ruined Jedi Temple be your path to sensitivity. There are other Landmarks both as POI's and not that can be utilized like this. For those who like a difficult challenge, let them chose to find an unmarked shrine such as the one on Dantooine further north.
But for those of us who are "casual" gamers the idea of spending months to become force-sensitive then more months to become a Jedi Initiate makes us want to give up on the game. If I hadn't made such good friends who keep my spirits up and push me to pursue Jedi, I would have quit at the idea of holo grinding.
But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Fillie Forbes
Flurry Server
Working on Mastering Bounty Hunter to hunt my husband when he becomes a Jedi 