Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Roundtable Discussion: GCW and TEFs

JoeyMojo
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:30 pm
#339

Remove TEF. Trade TEF, Group TEF, Heal TEF. Pull it out completely.

Consider:
The frustration and grief caused by the inclusion of a TEF system does not outweigh the benefit in many players eyes.

Further:
I would ask what the perceived benefit is of the TEF system in it's current incarnation is. Especially because my perception of TEF and it's benefits is quite likely radically different from that of the Dev's.
silversaber
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:31 pm
#340






JEST3R wrote:





Thunderheart wrote:





uofwi92 wrote:





Thunderheart wrote:

This has been a really great thread and new discussions are still popping up.





Paulie35 wrote:
Remove TEF. If a player does not want to PvP they should not have to.




If we did that, it would dramatically change things. As it stands, people don't ever have to play PvP. They can remain Neutral and never have to be involved. Declaring Covert means a player primarily wants to play GCW PvE. There are certain actions that will push them to Overt status or put them at risk, but in each case, its a choice the player makes to get involved.


Should that risk not be part of the conflict? It was something that players strongly requested pre-launch.






I agree with this poster. I hated nothing more than when I was a noob killing stuff in the Imperial Research Facility on Naboo, just trying to level up and get some decent loot when a master Imperial would show up and wax us because we were TEF'ed. I never made the choice to fight this person, but I had to because I was killing Imp NPCs.

This does, however, create a divide between overt and the rest of the game. If you're not overt, you shouldn't be able to heal someone who is (ala gtef). I think you should be able to trade, though... /shrug



What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?









A possibility to be explored if under certain conditions:


removal of Gtef


Protection of player placed factional content so coverts cannot attack turrets and Faction bases and NPCs while they cannot get TEFs.


Setting various bases or even future content at certain partcipation limits.


I think most Overts would give up killing the wayward TEF'd youngling IF that meant we got rid of Covert Tef abuse in return and they could not freely effect the GCW while immune to the rammificantions.


Not agreeing mind you but its something we can explore in a focused discussion.


JEST3R




JEST3R, I would be satisfied with removing GTEF, removingForced Overt from Crackdown scan, and the return of PvE Battlefields in a non-bugged form. Or better yet in place or in addition to the Battlefields, give us instanced PvE only dungeoncontent like the Corvette.




c00kie
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:31 pm
#341






Thunderheart wrote:

This has been a really great thread and new discussions are still popping up.





Paulie35 wrote:
Remove TEF. If a player does not want to PvP they should not have to.




If we did that, it would dramatically change things. As it stands, people don't everhave to play PvP. They can remain Neutral and never have to be involved. Declaring Covert means a player primarily wants to play GCW PvE. There are certain actions that will push them to Overt status or put them at risk, but in each case, its a choice the player makes to get involved.


Should that risk not be part of the conflict? It was something that players strongly requested pre-launch.








What about a rebel in a city that gets delcared or flagged by npc imps doing a scan, which provide 0 xp and 1fp for killing? And then have to deal with people who stand around overt just to kill unbuffed coverts that get flagged?





Owapa - Colonel Rebel Army
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AudioOrgana
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:32 pm
#342



JEST3R wrote:

GCW PvP combat is relatively fast paced, and certainly not standing very still.... Most GCW partcipants agreed nothing could be traded enough in combat to effect the battle. Or better yet prevent trades while in combat and get rid of trade TEF.
JEST3R





Totally agreed.

Non-combat, non-healing TEF are not needed.

AO
rockanddroll
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:36 pm
#343


robpro wrote:
They could have even added a option at character creation PvP or PvE and once selected it is locked.
Just think how happy everyone could be then. The PvE people could do all the crappy little faction missions they want with no tef but can not help in any kind of PvP base take downs or Player NpC's. They would not be able to heal or trade with overt PvP. the only kind of PvP for the PvE people would be in the forms of Duels with deathblows removed


Then stormtroopers and rebel marines can go have tea together.

I have always been a proponent of hardcore servers. I try to understand all aspects of people playing styles, but I honestly think that the people who want NO PvP under any circumstances, are actually more ashamed of defeat when it's at the hands of another player. That or they want to play a game with little to no risk of failure. It would be grand if there was a hardcore server, a role-playing PvP server, a PvE only server, so people can match the server to their playing styles. But the combined system we have now is good enough, provided that you are a sport about it.

For the shame of defeat, I say there's no shame in loosing a fight if you loose well, but there is shame is winning if you are a poor winner.

For the people afraid of risk, you should go play one of the Sims rip-offs, or go play a non-online game set on super easy. You will be able to kick ass, and not have to worry about people raining on your parade.

I have never been a serious PvPer, I'm too busy crafting, but the times when I have been literally running for my life and actually made it to safety alive are some of the most memorable moments in the game for me.



e Order of the Dying Knights f
Jannie Knowing of Eclipse


snyker
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:36 pm
#344

Maybe resorting to new server types...
rockanddroll
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:38 pm
#345


KUBaN wrote:
The TOS timer could depend on rank. Therefore a Private who is just RPing could have a much shorter timer (say 2 minutes), while a battle harderned colonel would have a longer timer (perhaps 30 minutes to an hour).




That is a good idea!



e Order of the Dying Knights f
Jannie Knowing of Eclipse


silversaber
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:41 pm
#346






AudioOrgana wrote:





silversaber wrote:








We can be satisfied with the stale, chicken Mcnuggets, or we can stare through the window at real food being served, but with the catch that every time we touch the food, we can be bashed over the head at will by the other people eating.


I have said from before Beta, that the GCW is main content of Starwars. If we are forced to stay Neutral, then we are just playing a second rate bland SciFi game. This fact is more true now than it was then when I said it.








My God, what is it you are so scared of?

Losing a few FP?

If you feel that strongly about the GCW, play it - not rally for some low-rent version of it.

Really, you don't even get decay from it - the consequence isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.

You have choice, and the consequences have already been reduced for you.

Again, what is it you are so scared of? If it's a strictly "principle" sort of thing, I'd suggest you review the practical before you commit yourself so heavily to the theoretical.

AO






**edit** you get the idea imscared of anything?


I


Don't


Like


PvP


Period.


Many that PvP (not all, but enough to destroy any enjoyment in it) play PvP not to play the game, but to destroy the enjoyment of the game for others.


I donot pay to be anothers sick entertainment.


I pay to play WITH other players.


I pay to have FUN. As do the othermajority of the player population if you look at the Droid Census.


GrinInc
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:44 pm
#347

Honestly TH, it's the group TEF that has just caused too many problems in the game. When you chose a faction and decide to go do some factional PvE without havingto go overt you understand that you will gain TEF. When you perform certain actions with an overt faction member you are aware of the result. TEF is given, but you know that it will be.


With group TEF you attack another overt only to find they have grouped with a number of coverts and you get laid to waste. The group icon and player distance in combat doesn't allow for you to really understand you are outnumbered heavily so you can make the decision to flee or call reinforcements. It is not something you are or could be aware of.


I understand the mechanics. Why wouldn't you help someone of your faction if they were getting attacked? Sure, that's sound logic. Howeveroverts will group coverts DURING combat for assistance or group large numbers of coverts before combat with the intention of misleading the enemy of their numbers. I believe thisgoes above the intended mechanics and the community as a whole seems to dislike this aspect of the game. Group TEF should be removed. That's the biggest issue with TEF hurting PVP.





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KrYpToFoX
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:44 pm
#348

Silver? Why dont you address my wanting to defend my commards in arms(as I noted in the post above)? Why would you deny me this right?



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AudioOrgana
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:49 pm
#349


silversaber wrote:

**edit** you get the idea im scared of anything?

I

Don't

Like

PvP

Period.

Many that PvP (not all, but enough to destroy any enjoyment in it) play PvP not to play the game, but to destroy the enjoyment of the game for others.

I donot pay to be anothers sick entertainment.

I pay to play WITH other players.

I pay to have FUN. As do the other majority of the player population if you look at the Droid Census.





Then.

Don't.

PvP.

It's that simple. You have the choice. If you want to attack a faction, expect it to be defended.

Again, not sure what it is you are so afraid of when it comes to your "enjoyment" being destroyed. There is no decay, and assuming you are bright enough to clone before you go out faction hunting, no wounds.

You have the choice to participate or not. If you choose to participate, the consequences have already been reduced to just about nothing.

Don't be so afraid - you might actually enjoy yourself.

AO
MBaco
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:52 pm
#350

I think that the gtef problem would be solved if:


1 - any tef results in a "overt" status as if you declared, not just a covert until attack.

2 - any covert grouping with an overt will result in a tef status (see above) for all coverts grouped with overt.

3 - trading as a covert with an overt should not be changed, you get a tef.


Thats my 2 cents.



Murcuchio Baco / Skread Nightstrydor-Mercenary
A consummate master of the Carbine.
Matsubaa
Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:00 pm
#351

I strongly believe thata TEF should consist of being forcibly declared Overt for your faction. This allows for secrecy and ambushes which are part of a guerilla war without allowing the clone killing and other griefing associated with the TEF system we have now. You will be Overt until killed. Once killed you are vanquished from the field of battle, perhaps even with a timer between declarations to prevent people from dying, re-declaring and joining the battle.


As far as the faction stuff goes, I really think we should abolish the Neutral faction. It doesn't make sense. This is a galaxy run by an oppressive government. You are either with the Empire or against it. You can give your tacit approval to the Empire or your explicit approval to the Empire but unless you go out of your way to *not* be Imperial then you are a de facto Imperial. If you are in any way *against* the Empire you area de facto Rebel. You can be a criminal and turncoat by playing both sides but you can't be on *no* side.


New players should be Covert Imperial by default. Imperials should not be able to detect the faction of a player unless they are declared overt one way or the other and should be forced to assume everyone is a lawful Imperial citizen unless given specific information otherwise.


There is no room for neutrality. You are either helping, allowing or resisting the Imperial control of the galaxy and none of these is a neutral position.



Give me a shadowed forest into which I might disappear.
Give me a terrible foe and stack the odds against me.
Give me friends and creatures with whom I can share my adventures, my losses and my gains.
Let the gales blow and the world be torn asunder but don't make me stand alone against the tempest.
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