Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Roundtable Discussion: GCW and TEFs

silversaber
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:47 pm
#313






Limbonik wrote:





silversaber wrote:


This wasnt a valid arguement THEN, and it is a much less valid arguement NOW.


Your opinion.


Maybe so, but valid none the less.


Three quartersof all the BEST PvEcontent in the game is in the GCW and in the Factions.

The PvP aspect of the game is the GCW (everything Rebel/Imperial). It says so right in the game manual. PvE is the neutral aspect of the game.


I can care LESS what the manual says. It hase never been up to date, and very LITTLE of the manual applies to the game now.

If you think we are just going to leave it to the Hardcore PvPrs, well we got news for you.

We? You got a squirrel in your pocket?


We. as in Us. As in thevast majority of the players in the game.








silversaber
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:53 pm
#314






LevaOripa wrote:




silversaber


please explain what you mean .If i buy a faction base thats pvp content not pve.I am a player i bought it in hoping for some pvp action not as a generic pve farm there are lots of those put in the game just for that.


This one was bought with FP I earned






Ok ok I can see Factionally purchased content like bases should not be valid PvE content, except for Covert Scanners.


In fact it would overjoy me to see Covert scanners taken out of the game altogether.


Let Factionionally purchased content be destroyable only by those that are Overt.


greenbleeder
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:56 pm
#315

Two things:


1. If a covert player groups with an overt player said player becomes overt also.


2. When a covert player groups/heals/trades with an overt there should be a checkbox warning the covert of the overt players status.


The rest of the TEF system is fine in my opinion ...This is coming from a mostly non pvp player, however i believe if i want to participate in factional pve content there has to be a risk of pvp (this is aMMORPG afterall not a single player RPG). There is nuetral status if you want to totally avoid all pvp contact.
AudioOrgana
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:56 pm
#316

I really don't understand what the problem is here.

If you don't want to be exposed to PvP (like it's a disease or something), simply do not join a faction.

Why aren't people forced to accept the consquences of their choices in this game? Why is this even a question? It is part of the game design - you can participate, or not participate. If you do not join a faction, you cannot be attacked.

This whole debate seems so...stale. I do not care much for PvP, but as a player of SWG I accept the fact that if I perform certain acts, I will be vulnerable to PvP. I just don't know what people are so darn terrified of - the worst thing that could happen is you loose a few FP and get sent to the cloning center - with NO hit to decay. There is no decay for getting killed in PvP faction action.

So what is the great big deal? You want your cake, to be able to eat it, but that's not enough so you request a pot roast on the side. People who do not want to PvP or ever get a TEF do not have to - you have to ACTIVELY choose to get them in this game by a) declaring a faction, and b) performing one of these well-known acts. Ah, but you want to join a faction? Well, that's your choice. I'd like to control a CL-60 Rancor, but I have made the choice not to become a CH, so that is a consequence I have to accept.

The "middle of the road" player is really getting ignored here - those that don't PvP regularly, but see it as an occasional addition to the game.

People who don't want to PvP already have that choice. It's really as simple as that.

AO
Jasyn
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:58 pm
#317

TEF's should remain if a Covert Player attacks an enemy faction object or NPC regardless. If a player doesn't want to ever engage in PvP they should have not joined a faction that is obviusly at war with another. How ever some of the restrictions that come from tef's should be removed, like geting a tef from traiding, or not alowing a player to enter a building becasue they are tefed.



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rockanddroll
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:59 pm
#318


Thunderheart wrote:

What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?




NOOOO!

All people do is ask to make the game easier!

Making TEFs only apply to high faction players is only making the game play easier for new players!

You realize of course that as soon as you take TEFs away from new players, once they reach the threshold and start getting TEFs you are going to hear this:

'TEFs are TOTALLY ruining the game! Devs, you are scum and should take it out!'

Continuing to pander to the people who want to play with the least risk is only going to bring the player base to the lowest common demoninator.

You should make the game harder and revel in the crys of the weak-willed!



e Order of the Dying Knights f
Jannie Knowing of Eclipse


speardancer
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:00 pm
#319



Thunderheart wrote:


uofwi92 wrote:


Thunderheart wrote:

This has been a really great thread and new discussions are still popping up.


Paulie35 wrote:
Remove TEF. If a player does not want to PvP they should not have to.

If we did that, it would dramatically change things. As it stands, people don't ever have to play PvP. They can remain Neutral and never have to be involved. Declaring Covert means a player primarily wants to play GCW PvE. There are certain actions that will push them to Overt status or put them at risk, but in each case, its a choice the player makes to get involved.
Should that risk not be part of the conflict? It was something that players strongly requested pre-launch.



I agree with this poster. I hated nothing more than when I was a noob killing stuff in the Imperial Research Facility on Naboo, just trying to level up and get some decent loot when a master Imperial would show up and wax us because we were TEF'ed. I never made the choice to fight this person, but I had to because I was killing Imp NPCs.

This does, however, create a divide between overt and the rest of the game. If you're not overt, you shouldn't be able to heal someone who is (ala gtef). I think you should be able to trade, though... /shrug

What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?






There needs to be some sort of balance added.... I can certainly see the need for TEF's in combat situations, and many other situations in the game. But on the other hand, TEF's as they stand now, are often mis-used to force those who do not want to PvP, or not ready to participate.
My wife plays a CM, and we were in the bestine cantina. She uses an area heal on some of the dancers, trying to be nice. Apparently, someone within range was overt, or had a TEF, because next thing she knows, she gets a message her bike outside was destroyed (ghosted, fortunately) and a bunch of imps come in and tear her apart, and she's wondering what the hell is going on! There was no combat situation, and we never did figure out exactly how she got a TEF, but she got one and was killed none the less. She knows well enough not to purposely heal an overt player who's fighting, but this one snuck in. One of the situations that need to be 'balanced' with TEF's.

And yes, for the time being, she's not doing any more area heals in the cantina. And for anyone who says "she shoulda looked around", you tell me you can target and look at every person in a busy cantina. The radar dots get layered over each other too. We didn't see any over rebels in the cantia, but something happened.



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Motas, Master Scout and Carbineer *Canceled, last day June 16th
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Ocu_Lus
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:03 pm
#320

I think one of the main issues is, TEF's are not just faction related. There is a thing called a group TEF which a lot of people get upset about. If it was as simple as, you being a covert member, trade/heal/help, an overt member of the faction, and then get a TEF, there wouldn't be a huge problem. But right now, you have group TEF's that can effect neutral members being grouped with someone that a) they don't know is factionally aligned, b) don't know is a jedi and currently has a BH TEF, which they will inherit upon trading or healing said Jedi.


In short, TEF issues would be a lot easier to deal with if they were only faction related, but as it stands right now, they're not.



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rockanddroll
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:05 pm
#321


uofwi92 wrote:
I agree with this poster. I hated nothing more than when I was a noob killing stuff in the Imperial Research Facility on Naboo, just trying to level up and get some decent loot when a master Imperial would show up and wax us because we were TEF'ed.


Then level on monsters.

If you take on the Imperial Army, you should expect for them to retaliate. When you shoot on NPC do you complain that the other NPCs shoot back? Why should a PC Imperial be any different?

Wait, it was becuse you got killed so fast you couldn't retaliate.

That isn't the TEF's fault, it is the ccombat system's fault.

The only irritating thing about TEFs now is getting kicked out of my own house when trading with an Overt member. But I'll take it if it means TEFs get to stay!



e Order of the Dying Knights f
Jannie Knowing of Eclipse


KzinKiller
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:05 pm
#322

Thunderheart wrote:

What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?


So ... the idea is to penalize you for acquiring high faction ranking? There's so little incentive to do it now, that should deliver the killing blow to that whole system. What's the goal, to wank as high as any in Wome?


In other words, no, really Bad Idea from the Bad Ideas Department ... unless there's a corresponding benefit to achieving high rank. The fair offsetting benefit here seems to be that a high-ranking officer would have access to good Intel and might be able to penetrate Covert status with a portable covert scanner purchasable as a faction perk.





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silversaber
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:10 pm
#323








AudioOrgana wrote:
I really don't understand what the problem is here.

If you don't want to be exposed to PvP (like it's a disease or something), simply do not join a faction.

Why aren't people forced to accept the consquences of their choices in this game? Why is this even a question? It is part of the game design - you can participate, or not participate. If you do not join a faction, you cannot be attacked.

This whole debate seems so...stale. I do not care much for PvP, but as a player of SWG I accept the fact that if I perform certain acts, I will be vulnerable to PvP. I just don't know what people are so darn terrified of - the worst thing that could happen is you loose a few FP and get sent to the cloning center - with NO hit to decay. There is no decay for getting killed in PvP faction action.

So what is the great big deal? You want your cake, to be able to eat it, but that's not enough so you request a pot roast on the side. People who do not want to PvP or ever get a TEF do not have to - you have to ACTIVELY choose to get them in this game by a) declaring a faction, and b) performing one of these well-known acts. Ah, but you want to join a faction? Well, that's your choice. I'd like to control a CL-60 Rancor, but I have made the choice not to become a CH, so that is a consequence I have to accept.

The "middle of the road" player is really getting ignored here - those that don't PvP regularly, but see it as an occasional addition to the game.

People who don't want to PvP already have that choice. It's really as simple as that.

AO






Yea right.


We have a choice alright, like a choice of eating in McDonalds and eating in a real resteraunt


We can be satisfied with the stale, chicken Mcnuggets, or we can starethrough the window at real food being served, but with the catch that every time we touch the food, we can be bashed over the head at will by the other people eating.


I have said from before Beta, that the GCW ismain content of Starwars. If we are forced to stay Neutral, then we are just playing a second rate blandSciFi game. This fact is more true nowthan it was then when I said it.

rockanddroll
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:12 pm
#324


Ackis wrote:
Getting set overt from a scan isn't a choice.



It's a choice when you join a faction. By joining the Imperials or the Rebels you are joining an army! Every soldier should expect that he life is at risk when his country is at war. And the Galactic Civil War is raging all over. Why should you, as a member of the faction be perfectly safe?

You enlist and take your chances. I wouldn't have it any other way!



e Order of the Dying Knights f
Jannie Knowing of Eclipse


KrYpToFoX
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:14 pm
#325

For all of the people arguing against TEFs..you need to stop thinking about how YOU want to always go out and do your OWN thing, without any consequences, and start thinking in terms of the GAME...

I think it would be a TRAVESTY if I, as a rebel player, had to sit and watch an Imperial player killing rebel NPC's left and right, without being able to do a damn thing about it. This is PRECICLY one of the things that killed Anarchy On-Line for me...people from the opposing side could swoop into our towns, kill all the NPC guards, laugh at us, and then swoop out, and we were not able to do a damn thing about it...

I think removing the TEF's totally breaks immersion, and removes all sense of realism, and reality from the game. It turns factional NPC's from individuals that people have some sdegree of respect for, to inanimate playthings that can be shot at for a players amusement. This is not the STAR WARS that I want to live in...I want REPROCUSSIONS for my actions, because those REPRECUSSIONS give MEANING to them...otherwise, without the TEF and other PvP "punishments", gameplay becomes boring, formulaic, and, ultimately, pointless.



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