Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Roundtable Discussion: GCW and TEFs
LevaOripa
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:33 pm
#300
When i see my soldiers at our faction bases being slaughtered I want to save them because theu poor guys cant save themselves 
The covert attacking them only has to wait 5 minutes and his tef goes away
But I have to declare OVERT to save my poor troops from this butcher now it takes me 1 hour to return to covert status........It should take ony 5 minutes just like the covert tef
A better solution would be making faction troops being attacked from a covert automatically make the covert a overt these troops are player owned and not considered pve content so I think this would be fair
silversaber
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:33 pm
#301
PlayeroftheDay wrote:
Silversaber-
I am one of those PvE'ers I rarely PvP, as stated above all of that was my opinion do not flame me because I am stating what I think. Instead perhaps you should supply a valid argument to back up your opinions like I did. Move along citizen.
Tesshu
I seriously doubt you are a PvEmajority the way you slammed other PvE players in your post.
I have been fighting to have a legit PvE GCW in this game, and will continue to do so until I am unable to do so.
silversaber
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:36 pm
#302
MaxSteele wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?
No. Absolutely not. It shouldn't matter if you're a Private or a Colonel.
If you are an Imperial Private, and you killa Rebel, you KILLEDa REBEL. You are now actively a part of the Galactic Civil War, and you should receive a TEF.
Why is there even a discussion about this?
Why? because the SIGNIFICANT portion of those that play in the GCW are Covert, and are sick and tired of being subject to PvP when they are participating in the BEST PvEcontent in this game!
Thats why.
ZelousShadow
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:36 pm
#303
The Nature of Covert/Overt TEFS need to change, In regards to play styles, as of right now its like Covert is Overts who can't be attacked until they want to.
There needs to be definite and far greater benifits to remaining Overt for long periods of time, and general play.
The playstyles in Particular to missions need to reflect the Covert/ Overt Status.
Covert missions should be more along the lines of Sheltering Refugees (escort), Moving Information (Delivery), Doing Scouting and Spying related activities (Explorer), Maybe Include providing supplies for their respective faction (Crafters)
Overt missions should be more along the lines as Assasinate NPC X, Take X, Y, Z Npcs to Point A and Kill Base B.
Engage Enemy Faction at Z point at X time.
As well as Overt TEFs need to change a bit, Just because you let everybody know you've sided with a faction doesn't mean that you've done anything worthy of being hunted and killed by an opposing faction. Yet Overt players shouldn't be loitering around another factioned controlled location. After all a rebel in Bestine is suspicious
As for Jedi, you do something Jedi do, you should get a massive TEF from ALL factions!
And If you Die Via that TEF you should have your character disabled for a period of time as well as skill loss. That will keep 100's of jedi from running around and only the smart ones stay ranked. As well as it will keep players working with a Non-Jedi Alt, and keep Star Wars Galaxies from becoming Jedi Galaxies.
I'd also like to see some Faction Vetran Rewards, Such as an Imperial who has Been an Imperial in good standing for say 6 months earn something like A Tie Defender, or Some Proto-type gun
Niamb
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:37 pm
#304
I would heavily modify TEF and remove the involuntary overting of players (Imperial crackdown). You say players can choose to be neutral and then provide twice as much content for faction players. Choosing to live without half the content of the game is not really a viable choice. There is an Imperial only themepark, there is a Rebel only themepark. Where is the neutral only themepark? I remained neutral through the first story arc, but then I could not longer do so. It was either declare or forego much of the content of the game.
I hate being made overt by the imperial crackdown. How did I choose that? I don't want to PvP. Let me repeat that: I don't want to PvP. I do want to have acess to as much content as other players in the game, but to do that I must declare for one faction or the other. Otherwise, no faction themepark, no participation in story arc. That is not a viable choice. Being made overt has ruined a number of evenings when I had hoped to enjoy the game I pay to play. Instead I had to go home and have my toon sit in my house for an hour. Where is the fun in that? Now I spend portions of my limited playing time sitting in shuttle ports to avoid using the Kor Vella spaceport which is 1300m from my home.
But as to TEF. I don't think you should get a TEF for attacking NPCs. This is PvE. People want to PvE without exposing themselves to PvP. Our guild was hunting on Dath and one of our membersaccidentally got a TEF from an Imperial NPC. An Imp PvPer killed him, removing his buffs and spoiling the evening of fun he had planned with the guild. This Imp then went on to disable the swoop our friend had been riding. Now this guy was a casual player. The cost of that swoop meant a lot to him, as did the fact he couldn't play the game the way he wanted to play it and he couldn't enjoy the evening with the rest of his guild as he had plannned.....the upshot.....he's over playing City of Heroes now. He was very angry at SOE for setting up game mechanics that allow one player to grief another like that. The next day the IMP was on the Radiant forum bragging how he had disabled 7 bikes on Dath the night before of people who had inadvertently gotten a TEF. He had fun, but 7 people had their evening ruined.
As for other things that can give one a TEF, in UO you could choose to have a warning pop up when you did anything that would make you attackable, asking if you wanted to continue. How about that? Then I won't accidentally get a TEF for healing someone I didn't realize was overt or for throwing an area heal that also healed someone with a TEF, Same with an area poison. As a covert, I should get a warning if I am about to take an action that would give me a TEF and then I can decide if that is a risk I wish to take or not.
silversaber
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:37 pm
#305
LevaOripa wrote:
When i see my soldiers at our faction bases being slaughtered I want to save them because theu poor guys cant save themselves
The covert attacking them only has to wait 5 minutes and his tef goes away
But I have to declare OVERT to save my poor troops from this butcher now it takes me 1 hour to return to covert status........It should take ony 5 minutes just like the covert tef
A better solution would be making faction troops being attacked from a covert automatically make the covert a overt these troops are player owned and not considered pve content so I think this would be fair
Heck no!
That would be one HECK of a step backward for PvE players in this game!
Geko26
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:38 pm
#306
I look at TEF's as kinda like "word of mouth rumors", one rebel passing my name onto other rebels kinda thing about the evil deed that I had done.
I mean how else would someone in town know that I killed a rebel way out in the middle of nowhere where no-one saw me.
I believe that this supports my idea by saying that Colonel's doing these deeds would gather alot more publicity then the average Private's killing the rebels. I am not saying that TEF's should be removed at all... and this is just my idea instead of TH's idea of getting rid of TEF's completely comment.
I am also taking it for granted that the GCW revamp will make the higher ranks mean more.
In summary: Lower ranking factional members should have the TIMES of their TEF lessened. Higher ranking factional members should have the normalTIMES ofTEF's or more, if deemed necessary.
P.S - Get rid of the trading TEF, thats just dumb.
Limbonik
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:40 pm
#307
silversaber wrote:
This wasnt a valid arguement THEN, and it is a much less valid arguement NOW.
Your opinion.
Three quartersof all the BEST PvEcontent in the game is in the GCW and in the Factions.
The PvP aspect of the game is the GCW (everything Rebel/Imperial). It says so right in the game manual. PvE is the neutral aspect of the game.
If you think we are just going to leave it to the Hardcore PvPrs, well we got news for you.
We? You got a squirrel in your pocket?
robpro
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:41 pm
#308
PvE or PvP
Why didnt they just make seperate Servers for both
The PvE people are ruining the game for the PvP peopleand vise versa
They could have even added a option at character creation PvP or PvE and once selected it is locked.
Just think how happy everyone could be then. The PvE people could do all the crappy little faction missions they want with no tef but can not help in any kind of PvP base take downs or Player NpC's. They would not be able to heal or trade with overt PvP. the only kind of PvP for the PvE people would be in the forms of Duels with deathblows removed.
This would also help in getting PC bounties in the game because if you selected yes to PvP you can get bounties put on you
They could do jedi the same way PvE or PvP but again once you create your character its locked no changeing it
ZelousShadow
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:42 pm
#309
JoahSaett wrote:
How about allowing a player to exempt themselves from allPVP?, an option that once chosen, would keep them from re-entering for 24 hours. They would not be able to attack, or be attacked by another player for 24 hours before they are allowed to choose to rejoin, or stay out.
You don't think its reasonable that if your killing My Comrades I can't try to kill you and save them?
Face it even when Engaged in PVE Galactic Civil war some actions are just deserving a TEF even If you just want to kill Storm Troopers or something
Spank-A-Thon
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:45 pm
#310
Thunderheart wrote:
fatgit wrote:
I agree that covert players SHOULD get a TEF for factional PvE.
However, simply trading with an overt will get you a TEF, this seems to be a bit over the top.
It heavily depends on what you are trading. Certain things that are traded can have a serious impact on the game. To flag each item and do an item check every time a player traded something to another player would give the system an aneurysm. Instead, the prevention measures for the potential combat grief falls on factional status. The side effect certainly is the pain of the "trade TEF" and I am pushing for that to be included in the GCW revamp.
Kurt, I really don't know enough about Group TEF so I will refrain from commenting on that.
I fully support the TEF system - there has to be some consequence to a players actions and as someone who is "trousers" at PvP, the TEF really adds to the tension. However, I do disagree that a Faction Scanner can turn someone Overt whenmurdering a group of Factional NPC's only gives a TEF.
If TEF is replaced then it should be with a Temporary Overt Flag maybe - but the point is, if you engage in Factional Activities you should be flagged but in certain circumstances only.
For example, if I murder a whole bunch of NPC's it's perfectly acceptable to think that one of them may "radio in" and report me - hence I get my TEF.
If I trade with or healan Overt slap-bang in the middle of a packed Coronet Startport, it's fair to assume that there will be coverts of the opposite faction that would then report me - hence I get my TEF.
If I trade with or heal an Overt in the middle of nowhere with no witnesses, who's gonna see me? Who's going to report me? Exactly - so I should not get a TEF.
This will add a tactical element to obtaining a TEF - do I risk healing a buddy in full view of the public, or do I try to heal covertly?
Keep TEF (or Temporary Overt Status) - but make it something that can be avoided in certain circumstances.
- Ymo
LevaOripa
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:45 pm
#311
silversaber wrote
LevaOripa wrote:
When i see my soldiers at our faction bases being slaughtered I want to save them because theu poor guys cant save themselves
The covert attacking them only has to wait 5 minutes and his tef goes away
But I have to declare OVERT to save my poor troops from this butcher now it takes me 1 hour to return to covert status........It should take ony 5 minutes just like the covert tef
A better solution would be making faction troops being attacked from a covert automatically make the covert a overt these troops are player owned and not considered pve content so I think this would be fair
Heck no!
That would be one HECK of a step backward for PvE players in this game!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
silversaber
please explain what you mean .If i buy a faction base thats pvp content not pve.I am a player i bought it in hoping for some pvp action not as a generic pve farm there are lots of those put in the game just for that.
This one was bought with FP I earned
LadyLeala
Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:47 pm
#312
I just wanted to post a few comments on the TEF system.
For starters, I'll say that I very much like the TEF system. It allows the non-PVPer to do a little PvPing when he/she pleases, without having to switch to "hard-core mode" (aka, overt status).
Of course there are some problems with the TEF system that need to be addressed, and I expect they will be with the upcoming GCW revamp. But for now, I'll just share a recent experience I had:
I was in Theed, and I had just declared myself. I wasn't planning on PvPing in Theed, but I wanted to be overt for where I was going. Part of this is simply a roleplaying experience I enjoy (like calling my ATST, just for show 
).
). Anyway, as I was headed toward the starport, I saw a red dot on my radar. Upon examining the target, I realized that it was a person who was not buffed. I figured they were probably not there to PvP, but I didn't want to take a chance of getting stopped before I reached my shuttle. So I shot her down. But I didn't DB her. I'm not into griefing others, and I just wanted to move on through the area. There were no other red dots on the screen.
Well, as I rounded the corner heading up to the ticket collector, I saw a rebel standing in front of me, staring me down. I thought, "Huh. I wonder what he's gonna do?" He was blue, not red. So I slowly started moving away....
He suddenly turns red on my screen and proceeds to mind hit me til I fell, then he DBed me.
Ok, all in all, I wasn't upset AT ALL about this encounter. I got what was coming to me after I mercilessly took out an unbuffed person. My ONLY problem with this situation was the fact that this rebel was so easily able to get a TEF and basically GET THE FIRST SHOT. I say he got the first shot because I'm certain that he had me targeted, and was probably hitting his attack key while getting his TEF, so he would be sure to fire first when he got the flag.
So I looked at this and wondered.... is this fair? It didn't seem so at the time. Here I am, the overt one, putting more at risk... and the OTHER guy gets the advantage? That seems backwards to me. What incentive does that give me to be overt when I can just as easily get a TEF. (Come to think of it... I really have NO IDEA how he got a TEF. Nobody was near him. No imperials were nearby for him to attack. How did he do it?)
So, my proposed solution is something like this:
If a person gets a TEF, there should be a DELAY before that person actually gets the flag. So that means that NEITHER SIDE can attack until the delay has gone by. Further, I think the delay should be accompanied by some sort of warning. Perhaps a rebel tag shows up above his head the second he gets the TEF, but there is a delay before he actually turns RED on my radar (and I on his).
I think this would help cut down on some TEF exploits. I consider the above example an exploit of the TEF system. To a degree. Of course he should be able to attack me if he chooses. But not in such a way that he can literally sneak RIGHT UP to me and SUDDENLY spring on me with a TEF and beat me down.
Now, you could argue that the person is "covert" and that's what "covert" people do... they sneak. They act "covert", right? Well, that's all fine and dandy, except when it gets to a level of unfairness for the person who is obviously putting a lot on the line by declaring overt. After all, one TEF cannot attack another TEF. Only Overt vs TEF or Overt vs Overt. So Overts DO have more at stake since they potentially have more adversaries (both Overts AND TEFed people).
The 2nd part of my post has to do with the idea of using the basic structure of the current Jedi FRS and put it in place with the GCW system.
Thunderheart, you made a comment earlier today about the possiblity of people with low ranks not receiving a TEF when killing NPCs of opposing faction. I like that a lot. But what if there were also another extreme... like when you get to a certain rank (maybe Colonel?) you MUST declare Overt 24/7 just like the FRS? Of course in order to implement something like this, there would also have to be more "perks" for actually doing that. But that's for another thread altogether.