Development Cycle Archive
Thread: SWG Changes Part 3: GCW Occupation System
RougeSmuggler
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:16 pm
#300
Changing Control
When the control of a planet shifts from one side to the other, control over the cities will not immediately change. It’s up to the faction to clear out the enemy guards holding out in the city. As the old guards are removed, they will be replaced by new guards from the faction that controls the city. If you want the city back, you’ll have to take it back by force!
And watch as the defending faction players crawl into the fetal position and cry as you take control of the city away from them!
Yes! Finally, just like Star Wars. Like that time in Episode 1 when the Naboo insurgents retook Theed, and all the robots could do is stand there and watch... oh wait....
-red
Straker_Atrella
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:24 pm
#301
Yogol wrote:
SOETyrant wrote:
Jeez people, we are not eliminating a Civilian/Neutral/Crafting lifestyle. But the GCW will affect the environment.
Yes you are. You are forcing people to PvEagainst scanners. And don't say "then don't carry sliced stuff", because that is impossible, sliced stufff is up to 30% better. so, yes, you ARE forcing people to fight or die.
And there is no escape, not evenfor people "on leave" (which is by far the most reidiculous term I ever heard, BTW, why not just call it covert ???)
Carry your sliced and illegal stuff in droids then. Those don't get scanned. YOu can carry up to 50 illegal items in droids (10 each.)
Maybe instead of complaining about great changes, you should use all your available assets.
Kenbow2
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:28 pm
#302
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
I think it's a bit early for all our suggestions, but I may as well just chime in with one while it's on my mind...
I think, instead of Rebels "Occupying" Cities, the Rebels should just have a much stronger PRESENCE when the Rebel Side is winning the war in that area.
It's almost the same thing... just a slight difference that should be kept in mind while the Dev's put all this goodness into actual live code.
The difference between true occupation and a strong Rebel Presence is the difference between Star Warsyness and two cookie cutter Factions.
I do trust this team to get it right. I'll gladly nudge you guys along the way though... just to be sure
May the force be with you.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
I think, instead of Rebels "Occupying" Cities, the Rebels should just have a much stronger PRESENCE when the Rebel Side is winning the war in that area.
It's almost the same thing... just a slight difference that should be kept in mind while the Dev's put all this goodness into actual live code.
The difference between true occupation and a strong Rebel Presence is the difference between Star Warsyness and two cookie cutter Factions.
I do trust this team to get it right. I'll gladly nudge you guys along the way though... just to be sure
May the force be with you.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I agree. Lets not turn this game into another World of Warcraft with two "perfectly equal" sides. Maybe the rebel guards on patrol look like regular citizens until they arm and identify themselves just before they scan you. But to have a Large rebel presence controlling a whole city does not fit the timeline at all. This game is set between Episode IV and V. The death star has been destroyed, and in the start of Episode V, the band of rebels are desperately hiding in the outer rim on an unpopulated planet (Hoth) freezing their miserable a%es off.
OR you could just do what I have reccomended in the past. Advanced the timeline of this game to right after Episode VI (Return of Jedi), which will give you more flexibility in what you can do with the elements of the game. I beleive here is where the rebels are making a come back, and there is more of an equal struggle between both sides. Then it would be like the PLAYERS of this game are directing thestar warsuniverseinto an all new future based on THEIR actions.
Staan
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:29 pm
#303
I'm still amazed that some Smugglers still don't realize this patch doesnt change a thing.
This changes nothing for you, your profession stil works as intended to date.
It is in fact MORE useful, as other may ask you to transport goods even.
Imagine that, a crafter paying to have goods delivered, smuggled even, so that they can get items sold in their shops. Not that crafters have much to worry about, I mean, what do you believe in more: A) The almighty credit B) Your faction. Choose one and stick with it.
Its like some people cant get past the Kneejerk reaction. Theres a good reason behind every change made.
And its ABOUT TIME that Dark Side Jedi understood, The Empire Does not support you.
You are a soldier, but being Jedi is bad.
You're wanted dead by the Empire like a Rebel, but you fight for a cause that does not support you.
If you thought anything different, you had your facts wrong.
I know it would be nice to have the option to be Dark side and Independant of each other, but for now you must mask your evil tendancies behind the most oppresive group, that being the Empire for the time being.
This changes nothing for you, your profession stil works as intended to date.
It is in fact MORE useful, as other may ask you to transport goods even.
Imagine that, a crafter paying to have goods delivered, smuggled even, so that they can get items sold in their shops. Not that crafters have much to worry about, I mean, what do you believe in more: A) The almighty credit B) Your faction. Choose one and stick with it.
Its like some people cant get past the Kneejerk reaction. Theres a good reason behind every change made.
And its ABOUT TIME that Dark Side Jedi understood, The Empire Does not support you.
You are a soldier, but being Jedi is bad.
You're wanted dead by the Empire like a Rebel, but you fight for a cause that does not support you.
If you thought anything different, you had your facts wrong.
I know it would be nice to have the option to be Dark side and Independant of each other, but for now you must mask your evil tendancies behind the most oppresive group, that being the Empire for the time being.
Jerrel13
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:33 pm
#304
Moment of silence for the death of continuity.
Although this sounds fun this will untimalty lead to futher distancing from the Star Wars feel. The majority of players are rebel so the majority of the planet will be rebel. It will soon feel like the Rebelion is the official government and that the Empire isthe rebellion. Personally I play this game because Star Wars was a cool idea. Lucas created a fictional reality in with a massive imposing fastious government rulls with an iron fist and I have never felt that though the course of my time on this game. If it wasn't for my web group, www.SWGTales.com I would have felt this game a long time ago. The concept is cool but it should not be implemented on Corellia, Naboo, or Talus. These worlds should remain Imperial until the the time line of the game is progressed past the point in which the Empire is over thrown.
valetman
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:35 pm
#305
Just an observation to the dark jedi, all this talk of npc's at bases killing them and stuff.
It says scan teams, rebs know what they are, and they are not at bases, they are the random spawns out in the wilds.
they are also now going to be the police in the cities.
But, and this is where you are not thinking properly, being scanned DOES NOT mean being detected.
In almost a year of crackdown, i have been identified as a reb and overted a grand total of twice.
I have been fined for sliced weapons less than a dozen times.
I have been given the all clear on every other occasion.
You dont even get scanned that often anyway.
Instead of the knee jerk reactions, perhaps ask some erebs how it plays to be scanned, before assuming the consequences are guaranteed death.
Or perhaps, actually wait until thi sstuff is tested, and find out how good/bad it is before proclaiming the end of the world.
It says scan teams, rebs know what they are, and they are not at bases, they are the random spawns out in the wilds.
they are also now going to be the police in the cities.
But, and this is where you are not thinking properly, being scanned DOES NOT mean being detected.
In almost a year of crackdown, i have been identified as a reb and overted a grand total of twice.
I have been fined for sliced weapons less than a dozen times.
I have been given the all clear on every other occasion.
You dont even get scanned that often anyway.
Instead of the knee jerk reactions, perhaps ask some erebs how it plays to be scanned, before assuming the consequences are guaranteed death.
Or perhaps, actually wait until thi sstuff is tested, and find out how good/bad it is before proclaiming the end of the world.
Kenbow2
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:42 pm
#306
But, let me be clear for the record....
These changes are great, and I like them.. especially the GCW stuff with controlled cities idea. I do, however, think it is slightly unfair to use historical content for soem issues and not for others....
Example,
1) Rebels will control cities based on rebel PvP and PvE baes on the planet. The outcome will be more rebel controlled planets since 2/3 of all players on each server is rebel. As a result, you will have a majority of planets on ever server in rebel control, which is not anywhere near where the rebels in the movie timeline were between episodes IV and V. But this is a game and for making it more fun, then it is a good idea and is fairly balanced.
2) Rebel Jedi will not be attacked by Rebel patrols, but Imperial Jedi are going to be attacked by imperial patrols after scans and will have reenforcements come in to assist because in the movie timeline, The Emperor doesnt want any jedi around.
So it seems that fun factor is the test on idea #1, and historical background is for #2.
By the way, what happens if I'm ina city asa Dark Jedi and I have my pet, a NPC stormtrooper, out with me when I get scanned? When the Imperial scanners attack me, will I be able to attack them with my pet? If so, then there will be 2 stormtroopers attacking each other? Id liek to see that. Or will my pet defect at the knowldge that his leader (me) is a Jedi and start to attack me also? Can I then store my pet to keep it from attacking me? Can I pull out my AT-ST and attack the scanner stormtroopers? Or will my pet just stand their and watch his leader get attacked?
fozzie22
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:42 pm
#307
aeuralis wrote:
Sounds like we are finally getting laws to break.
COOL!!!!!!
Ohh yeah, FIRST!!
Message Edited by aeuralis on 02-08-2005 12:46 PM
It's just getting better and better!!!
Ackew
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:43 pm
#308
Actually zjedi01 things HAVE changed we (neturals) are now going to be scanned by 3 lots of people (IE Reb ImpsAND Netural npc's)now instead of just one (Imps). Imps and Rebs will still only be scanned by the oppersit side. Therefore its UNFAIR to netural which unless there has been a major shift in things which i very much doubt. We represent the VAST majority of players. Last astromech stats i saw was quite a while ago but if i remember correctly There where about 1% overt for each side and about 10% covert which leaves over 75% IE THRRE QUATERS of ALL players who ARE NETRUAL. Why should WE be scanned 3 times as often when we are not even involed with in this stupid and pointless GCW. Surely Imps are far more concerned with catching rebels then with some joenetural who has a sliced wood staff he uses for protction against killer nuna's 
MedrautHalyd
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:48 pm
#309
SpaceCrazy wrote:
MedrautHalyd wrote:
Don't you need a certain amount of faction to enlist in the first place? Can you get that without attacking the other faction in some manner?
You can get the faction points without combat by running faction delivery missions - no combat required.
Still entirely plausible that the other side might have information about that (via espionage, etc.). It's not hugely likely, but then, scans don't actually detect faction status very often anyway, so it all works (in my opinion anyway).
It also occurred to me that you could buy the faction from a smuggler, but if you can justify that with an in-game explanation, you can justify the other side knowing about it and not appreciating it too.
I will add that I think it would be nice, in principle, to see a more complex system - basically a hidden faction visibility rating - that affected your chance of getting picked up on scans, so if you're out slaughtering imperial stormtroopers every night you're much more like to get picked up than if you ran a few delivery missions for the rebels a long time ago - but that's a whole extra level of complexity and implementation, and I don't think it would be essential. Just nice.
Nouveau
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:49 pm
#310
Gordon says you're not eliminating the lifestyle, but I'm going to have a hard time getting around if I want to support the Rebellion and be a crafter. I chose a side and Ichose to be a dedicated crafter supporting the Rebellion. The possibility will now be greater that I'm scanned and killed than it was before. I see no way to either 1) mitigate being scanned (via some form of Jedi Mind Trick, cloaking device, or perhaps forged identification papers created by a Smuggler), or 2) able to call on a defense of my own (maybe summon faction NPCs to cover me as I make a quick getaway, maybe a faction perk where the number/level of faction NPCs increases based on rank). I *WANT* to participate in the GCW and contribute to the war effort as a crafter! Don't force pure crafters into neut/civilians!
Calandryll_SOE wrote:
Gordon's comment was about those people who are not in a faction. If you aren't in a faction you won't be attacked from a scan.
Yogol wrote:
SOETyrant wrote:
Jeez people, we are not eliminating a Civilian/Neutral/Crafting lifestyle. But the GCW will affect the environment.
Yes you are. You are forcing people to PvEagainst scanners. And don't say "then don't carry sliced stuff", because that is impossible, sliced stufff is up to 30% better. so, yes, you ARE forcing people to fight or die.
And there is no escape, not evenfor people "on leave" (which is by far the most reidiculous term I ever heard, BTW, why not just call it covert ???)
Staan
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:50 pm
#311
Illegal things are illegal, cause um... they are illegal.
There's a penalty to that, and it means being scanned, and fined.
Who cares what faction you are, sure there is a bonus if youre on the side in control, but that wont always be the case, because if youre not in control, you may die for your side.
If you're neutral you wont get attacked. Just fined.
DEVs have confirmed this: YOU DO NOT GET ATTACKED ON SCAN IF NEUTRAL BY ANYONE
I see no unfair treatment, this is really a non-issue.
Simple Breakdown for crafters: Choose what is more important, money or your faction.
A) Money - Go neutral and only get fined for carrying illegal items.
B) Faction - Stick with your cause and be prepared to die for it.
Its Simple!
There's a penalty to that, and it means being scanned, and fined.
Who cares what faction you are, sure there is a bonus if youre on the side in control, but that wont always be the case, because if youre not in control, you may die for your side.
If you're neutral you wont get attacked. Just fined.
DEVs have confirmed this: YOU DO NOT GET ATTACKED ON SCAN IF NEUTRAL BY ANYONE
I see no unfair treatment, this is really a non-issue.
Simple Breakdown for crafters: Choose what is more important, money or your faction.
A) Money - Go neutral and only get fined for carrying illegal items.
B) Faction - Stick with your cause and be prepared to die for it.
Its Simple!
Message Edited by Staan on 02-08-2005 09:54 PM
Message Edited by Staan on 02-08-2005 09:55 PM
ZJedi01
Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:52 pm
#312
Ackew wrote:Actually zjedi01 things HAVE changed we (neturals) are now going to be scanned by 3 lots of people (IE Reb Imps AND Netural npc's) now instead of just one (Imps). Imps and Rebs will still only be scanned by the oppersit side. Therefore its UNFAIR to netural which unless there has been a major shift in things which i very much doubt. We represent the VAST majority of players. Last astromech stats i saw was quite a while ago but if i remember correctly There where about 1% overt for each side and about 10% covert which leaves over 75% IE THRRE QUATERS of ALL players who ARE NETRUAL. Why should WE be scanned 3 times as often when we are not even involed with in this stupid and pointless GCW. Surely Imps are far more concerned with catching rebels then with some joe netural who has a sliced wood staff he uses for protction against killer nuna's
I see your point, but thats not completely correct as I read it...lower level rebel/imps will be scanned by their own faction as well (higher ones will be overlooked that is true). You really arent being scanned by neutrals either. Only in factional controlled cities will neutral npc's scan on behalf of the controlling faction...this scan is applied to rebs and imps as well. All factions (reb/imp/neutral) are able to be scanned by imps/reb/and neutrals on behalf of the faction in faction controlled cities. The only ones who can opt out are high level rebel/imp officers they only get scanned by the opposite faction or neutrals working on behalf of the opposite faction (still 2 factions). So the only players who have a smaller chance of getting scanned than anyone else is high ranking rebels/imps (and its only there own faction which in my mind makes sense). Also need to remeber when neutrals get scanned they only loose money/faction...where as factional players looose that plus getting attacked and have reinforcements called in.
I think it is entirely legitimate that rebels perform scans on neutral and other rebels. Illegal is Illegal like some one said before. The rebels arent going to break their own laws (im sure slicing was just as illegal in the republic before its fall as it is in the empire) to win the war....that would be sinking to the empires "level".
Message Edited by ZJedi01 on 02-08-2005 07:57 PM