CUEmu - Thread Posts

PlayeroftheDay

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:15 pm

Thunderheart wrote:

uofwi92 wrote:

Thunderheart wrote:

This has been a really great thread and new discussions are still popping up.

Paulie35 wrote:
Remove TEF. If a player does not want to PvP they should not have to.

If we did that, it would dramatically change things. As it stands, people don't ever have to play PvP. They can remain Neutral and never have to be involved. Declaring Covert means a player primarily wants to play GCW PvE. There are certain actions that will push them to Overt status or put them at risk, but in each case, its a choice the player makes to get involved.

Should that risk not be part of the conflict? It was something that players strongly requested pre-launch.

I agree with this poster. I hated nothing more than when I was a noob killing stuff in the Imperial Research Facility on Naboo, just trying to level up and get some decent loot when a master Imperial would show up and wax us because we were TEF'ed. I never made the choice to fight this person, but I had to because I was killing Imp NPCs.

This does, however, create a divide between overt and the rest of the game. If you're not overt, you shouldn't be able to heal someone who is (ala gtef). I think you should be able to trade, though... /shrug

What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?

TH-

TEF's are an awesome part of this game that should NOT change. Group TEF's on the other hand should be re-worked. This has been said before and is the main gripe with all people. If someone does not want to participate in PvP then they should stay neutral. Period.

To those who feel that when they attack Imperial NPCsthey shouldn't be able to be attacked by another Imperial Player is unacceptable. If you take the risk of attacking an Imperial, player or not you need to be ready to be attacked and possibly killed. Right now by cloning and insuring there is NO PENALTY for dying PvP that is hardly griefing, so you lost your buffs and got a little BF...big deal. No decay or wound penalty is more than easy on us, don't make it any easier, please!

I would like to add when a player has +5000 rank with an NPC faction, ie CorSec and I attack and kill a Corsec it should automatically drop to 0, no even less. I just MURDERED another living being of a certain faction, a slap on the wrist saying that "life" was next to worthless isa joke. That goes for Imperial and Rebel as well, at least I think it should. If I were to attack and kill a person in real life (ain't ever gonna happen, don't worry) do you think the Police would just say, "Well he's lost a little respect in my eye. Eh, let him go...but if he does it 100 more times, hes going DOWN!" I don't think so. Please these will, in my opinion, really add some depth to NPC faction points and some more realism to the game.

Tesshu

Message Edited by PlayeroftheDay on 07-12-2004 03:18 PM

Suba

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:18 pm

#288

Plain and simple

If your a Low Level Noob who cant defend themselves against another Player you shouldnt be attacking Factional NPCs in an area that your viable to be attacked by a player. I wont stand for having People whine cause they died all cauyse of a tef for attacking NPCs in my Faction. YOur openly declaring waron the Empire or whatever when you do that. as a Member of the Faction your warring its my right and its my responsability to attack you.

00101000100110011101001011011111110100100010011111   Colonel Alec Suba: Dark Jedi Elder 
00111010000011000011000110101111010011010110111000    
00101000000010010110000111011000001101110000110101      
11010011000100010110011101001000001000001110110111
11100111100011011001010110100101010110110011101000
01101000110100101101110000011110011010100100110001
10100010100001110000101111101110010010100000000111

BaronJedi

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:19 pm

#289

The regular TEF NEEDS to stay in TH. There is hardlya problem with grieifng. Seriously, that is just an excuse. With so many player cities with so many bases and faction terminals how can you NOT avoid a potential griefer? I have been covert faction hunting since the start of the game and I have NEVER been attacked by an overt. You can easily avoid being attacked if you want.

Fact is there needs to be risk in joining a faction and especially when attacking a member of another faction, whether it be NPC or PC. Espa is already farmed bad enough as it is. Don't create a future of rebels slaughtering stormtroopers while Imperial PCs just sit there in their faction armor and watch.

Now the GROUP TEF needs to go. As in the thing that allows coverts to help an overt in their group if they are attacked.

Draxx Py're | Master Rifleman | Master Squad Leader

)D(ark )F(orce )R(ising

LeJediFou

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:19 pm

#290

No solution will please everybody.

Let's see what was the purpose of the PvP/Covert/TEF system

You want to be Imperial but you don't want to fight Rebel players -> you go Covert. As a Covert you can't attack players and they can't attack you.

You want to be Imperial and you wan't to attack Rebel players -> you go Overt. As an Overt, you can fight with other Overt players.

Everybody agrees that.

No what is the problem? The frontier between PvP and PvE.

PvE

Rebels players wanted to be able to attack Imperial NPCs, without going to Overt. Overt is very dangerous and if you force everyone in Overt state, they will be very few players. So the devs let the Covert attack NPCs from the other faction.

And now another problem came: "Hey! I'm an Overt Imperial and I see a Rebel Covert attacking Imperial NPCs. Why can't I protect my NPC mates ? It totally ruins the immersion."

That's why the devs created the TEF. If you attack a factionned NPC, you get a TEF and you can be attacked by an Overt ennemy during 5 minutes.

PvP

Some rare players chose to stay Overt while the vast majority plays as a Covert because they don't want to be opened to attack 24h/24.

Another problem appeared: "Hey! I'm a Covert Rebel and I see an Overt Rebel being attacked by Imperial players! Why can't I protect my friend ? It totally ruins the immersion."

That's why the devs created the group TEF. If you want to help a player, group with him and you'll be able to attack the players who are attacking your group.

As we can see, the TEF is here for a good reason. Without TEF, we would encounter many more stupid situations. Remove TEF? Then you can't assist NPCs or Players being attacked if you're a Covert.

So what ? Remove Covert ? Then 75% of each faction will surrender. 24h/24 opened to PvP is very difficult, and few people accept that.

Do I have a solution for every case ? No. I just wanted to say that simply removing TEF and/or Covert is just not that simple.

-----
Pendant des centaines de générations, l'ordre Jedi a su défendre et garder la paix et la justice dans l'ancienne république. Bien avant les jours sombres et l'avénement de l'Empire.
-----
Le Jedi Fou

Kragen77

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:20 pm

#291

Thunderheart wrote:

This has been a really great thread and new discussions are still popping up.

Paulie35 wrote:
Remove TEF. If a player does not want to PvP they should not have to.

If we did that, it would dramatically change things. As it stands, people don't everhave to play PvP. They can remain Neutral and never have to be involved. Declaring Covert means a player primarily wants to play GCW PvE. There are certain actions that will push them to Overt status or put them at risk, but in each case, its a choice the player makes to get involved.

Should that risk not be part of the conflict? It was something that players strongly requested pre-launch.

Perhaps this can be a compromise:

1) No TEF's for Faction Terminal Missions

2) No TEF's for NPC Faction Missions (i.e. Theme Parks and other NPC Quests)

3) Bring back the Battlegrounds as PvE enviorments only

4) More instanced PvE GCW content (like the Corvette) where there is no danger of outside interference.

All of the following would give player's TEF's. You can even make the TEF's last longer (like 1 hour) so people who don't want PvP will completely avoid it

1) Attacking Faction NPC's in a City will give you a flag.

2) Attacking another Overt or Flagged player will give you a flag

3) Attacking Player Controlled Faction Bases/Structures or Pets will give you a flag

4) Healing an Overt or Flagged Player will give you a flag (a warning should be given to the player doing the healing so they cannot do it by accident, like the current system allows).

5) Perhaps create PvP only battleground (like DAoC Frontiers). Upon entering one of these regions you are made OVERT and can be attacked by anyone of the opposite faciotnwithin the region. You would return to your original status when you exit the region, but add a 5 to 10 minutie timer to entering or exiting the region to avoid griefing.

The above solution is not perfect, but I think it is better than what we have now and gives everyone a little bit of what they are looking for.

Tstorm

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:20 pm

#292

Thunderheart wrote:
What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?

I am a covert Rebel that has only engaged in PvP once (I had a TEF while doing some missions and an Imperial player attacked me). I am also a Rebel Colonel (after a lot of work!).

Tying rank to TEFs would only make sense if there was a reward for those above or equal to the magic rank (risk versus reward). At the moment, rank means little to covert folks like myself (it doesn't show in /examine, I can't display my rank, and I get no additional faction perks). The result of tying rank to TEFs would result in noone bothering to cross the theshhold at all. I got to Colonel as a covert Rebel mainly because it was a goal for me to shoot for.

Make rank more attractive (aside from just increasing the faction cap which means nothing to a covert that can't use the expensive overt faction items anyway) and it will encourage people to participate more. As it stands, the Imperial crackdown may have made things more "Star Wars" but it discourages players that would otherwise be sticking their toe in the water to try things as a covert. Dangle some carrots!

silversaber

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:22 pm

#293

PlayeroftheDay wrote:

TEF's are an awesome part of this game that should NOT change. Group TEF's on the other hand should be re-worked. This has been said before and is the main gripe with all people. If someone does not want to participate in PvP then they should stay neutral. Period.

In your opinion.

To those who feel that when they attack Imperial NPCsthey shouldn't be able to be attacked by another Imperial Player is unacceptable. If you take the risk of attacking an Imperial, player or not you need to be ready to be attacked and possibly killed. Right now by cloning and insuring there is NO PENALTY for dying PvP that is hardly greifing, so you lost your buffs and got a little BF...big deal. No decay or wound penalty is more than easy on us, don't make it any easier, please!

Again in YOUR opinion. The VAST majority of player in game are PVE. It is STILL a SMALL minority of players that PvP in this game. It is time to stop catering to the minority.

I would like to add when a player has +5000 rank with an NPC faction, ie CorSec and I attack and kill a Corsec it should automatically drop to 0, no even less. I just MURDERED another living being of a certain faction, a slap on the wrist saying that "life" was next to worthless isa joke. That goes for Imperial and Rebel as well, at least I think it should. If I were to attack and kill a person in real life (ain't ever gonna happen, don't worry) do you think the Police would just say, "Well he's lost a little respect in my eye. Eh, let him go...but if he does it 100 more times, hes going DOWN!" I don't think so. Please these will, in my opinion, really add some depth to NPC faction points and some more realism to the game.

Deph and realizm in YOUR eyes, its a MAJOR irritation and outright griefing to the PvE players.

Tesshu

Renairdor

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:24 pm

#294

Thunderheart wrote:

This has been a really great thread and new discussions are still popping up.

Paulie35 wrote:
Remove TEF. If a player does not want to PvP they should not have to.

If we did that, it would dramatically change things. As it stands, people don't everhave to play PvP. They can remain Neutral and never have to be involved. Declaring Covert means a player primarily wants to play GCW PvE. There are certain actions that will push them to Overt status or put them at risk, but in each case, its a choice the player makes to get involved.

Should that risk not be part of the conflict? It was something that players strongly requested pre-launch.

The problem with the implementation, is sometimes you are not aware of being in a group with an Overt, so when you get a group TEF you are completely unprepared for battle. Or sometimes you do an area heal to your covert group, and some overt is somehow in range, so you get a TEF without asking. Sometimes you get trade with someone or buff someone- and given that everyone is just 'purple' you do not get a warning, you just get a TEF. Same for trading.

'Smart' folks aware of a buddy is overt and do not want a TEF can trade via droids, or just drop stuff on a floor in a house/cantina both characters share admin too. I think the 'trade TEF' is not very good for the game. More 'issues' arise out of a trade TEF then any real fun or immersion.

What would be REALLY helpful? A setting in the UI that just prevents any action from getting you a TEF if you are not keen on the PvP side of things. Even better, a different color for an OVERT vs a COVERT. That would be far far more ideal.

GTEF really should 'go' though. Coverts getting a first attack on any Overt, for any reason, is not very good balance.

Ren

MaxSteele

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:28 pm

#295

Thunderheart wrote:

What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?

No. Absolutely not. It shouldn't matter if you're a Private or a Colonel.

If you are an Imperial Private, and you killa Rebel, you KILLEDa REBEL. You are now actively a part of the Galactic Civil War, and you should receive a TEF.

Why is there even a discussion about this?

Evarn Terallis - Master Smuggler on Kettemoor

There are missions in which you "deliver an item while hostiles attack you" in every profession. I still don't consider [Smuggler's Alliance] pilots to be Smugglers, nor 'Smuggling' - at least not any more than Rebel Pilots or Imperial Pilots might sometimes "smuggle", with a lower-case s - JFreeman - 10/6/04

Homsarjedi

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:28 pm

#296

Get rid of GTEF. It is the most exploited thing ingame. It makes it so a group of 20 with only 1 overt can pvp without declaring.

Make it so u can't fight or healfor 1 minute after cloning. It will stop battles from becoming a zerg fest.

Let overts trade to everyone without a tef. What harm can trading do? It is pointless and just annoying.

Keep TEFs for factional PvE. If someone attacks your bases defences you should be able to fight back and for missions you are basicly declaring that you are a faction by killing the other.

make it so only overts and heal other overts. Otherwise people will heal an overt to get in the fighting without declaring.

add insentives to pvping. the only reasion to pvp is to grief other players and that is not good.

Also it seems like people do not understand the principle of being Covert. Most people think it means they don't have to pvp ever so if they get a TEF they complain it is unconsented PvP when really they consented when they became covert.

Jacehomsar (sunrunner) Storm Squadron Ace. Owner of Sunrunner's first Jetpack. Soon to be Jedi Knight

PlayeroftheDay

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:28 pm

#297

silversaber wrote:

PlayeroftheDay wrote:

TEF's are an awesome part of this game that should NOT change. Group TEF's on the other hand should be re-worked. This has been said before and is the main gripe with all people. If someone does not want to participate in PvP then they should stay neutral. Period.

In your opinion.

To those who feel that when they attack Imperial NPCsthey shouldn't be able to be attacked by another Imperial Player is unacceptable. If you take the risk of attacking an Imperial, player or not you need to be ready to be attacked and possibly killed. Right now by cloning and insuring there is NO PENALTY for dying PvP that is hardly greifing, so you lost your buffs and got a little BF...big deal. No decay or wound penalty is more than easy on us, don't make it any easier, please!

Again in YOUR opinion. The VAST majority of player in game are PVE. It is STILL a SMALL minority of players that PvP in this game. It is time to stop catering to the minority.

I would like to add when a player has +5000 rank with an NPC faction, ie CorSec and I attack and kill a Corsec it should automatically drop to 0, no even less. I just MURDERED another living being of a certain faction, a slap on the wrist saying that "life" was next to worthless isa joke. That goes for Imperial and Rebel as well, at least I think it should. If I were to attack and kill a person in real life (ain't ever gonna happen, don't worry) do you think the Police would just say, "Well he's lost a little respect in my eye. Eh, let him go...but if he does it 100 more times, hes going DOWN!" I don't think so. Please these will, in my opinion, really add some depth to NPC faction points and some more realism to the game.

Deph and realizm in YOUR eyes, its a MAJOR irritation and outright griefing to the PvE players.

Tesshu

Silversaber-

I am one of those PvE'ers I rarely PvP, as stated above all of that was my opinion do not flame me because I am stating what I think. Instead perhaps you should supply a valid argument to back up your opinions like I did. Also I don't understand, if you are +5000 with faction how and when would you want to attack, or be attacked by them (except those nasty Jabba's thieves who never seem to care?)

Tesshu

Message Edited by PlayeroftheDay on 07-12-2004 03:31 PM

shagon

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:28 pm

#298

Thunderheart wrote:

This has been a really great thread and new discussions are still popping up.

Paulie35 wrote:
Remove TEF. If a player does not want to PvP they should not have to.

If we did that, it would dramatically change things. As it stands, people don't everhave to play PvP. They can remain Neutral and never have to be involved. Declaring Covert means a player primarily wants to play GCW PvE. There are certain actions that will push them to Overt status or put them at risk, but in each case, its a choice the player makes to get involved.

Should that risk not be part of the conflict? It was something that players strongly requested pre-launch.

When did Jedi play a part in GCW?

Gaenjin

Mon Jul 12, 2004 3:31 pm

#299

Thunderheart wrote:

What about the idea of tying rank to TEF's so that playing in PvE GCW content doesnt gain you a flag unless you've earned a fair amount of Faction Rank?

Whether or not it's a "risk" of GCW PvE is totally moot right now. The actual issue is that the current TEF system is too exploitable against Overt PVPers.

The biggest problem with the TEFis Group TEF, where one Overt can turn an entire group of 19 other Coverts into at-will First Strikers. When an unattackable UN-Declared Player can walk up right upto a Declared Player, without being in danged of any attack,and hit/shoot them first... well the system is NOT working as intended, now is it?

It's fine if Players want to be Covert. I know at times, it's great to turn off the GCW and just enjoy the PVE game. BUT, a Covert should not be allowed to participate in the GCW at all. Coverts should be treated just as a Neutral as far as GCW is concerned... the only difference is that they have the ability to Declare Overt and participate within 5-10 minutes, where a Neutral cannot unless he gets the points and joins a faction.

Covert is just that, Covert. Going out and participating in "PvE faction missions" shouldn't even be an option for a Covert, it should be required that everyone be Overt to perform ANY combative actions against the opposite side of the GCW.

I understand the original reasoning behind TEF, butthose original factors are no longer affecting how TEF works in the game system today.

As far as Overt/Covert Trade TEF goes... exactly what can be traded that "imbalances the game" without that check? AT-STs are no longer tradeable, Faction Armor? Faction Furniture? Please. Faction delegation? Well you can delegate faction to a neutral, so big deal there.

We don't need TEF anymore, it should be removed and all Coverts restricted to the same restrictions as Neutrals, if they want to PVE. Anything related to Combat in the GCW should be treated as PVP, and everyone should be required to be Declared to combat or assist another Overt. Matter fact, Overts shouldn't be able to group with Coverts and Neutrals.

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Thread: Roundtable Discussion: GCW and TEFs