Development Cycle Archive

Rebels do out number Imps in the movies... It's just that most of them were covert due to the overpowering oppression, that should be made up for in NPC's and Game mechanics...

quote from DeQuosaek :
Hmmmm, looking back on this thread, 90% of the people who are crying about the AT-ST's are Imperial, aren't they?

And I wonder why thats come about. If you think about it, the whole reason the AtSt issue started was Rebels in mass whining that they were being oppressed, outgunned, and had nothing to compare with the AtSt.

Hate to tell you, but thats the way it should be. This is Star Wars. The Empire rules with an Iron Fist, and all the rebels want is "balance". There is no balance. The whole epic of the story is that heart and determination overcome extreme odds to restore freedom to the galaxy. Except very few rebels play that way. They expect to walk everywhere overt and not have to pay for it. This game makes a mockery of the Star Wars Trilogy. I'd really like to hear Lucas' opinion of this game as its layed out now. I guarentee this was not his vision to have the Empire cowering for fear of the Mass Rebel Army taking out his war machines in a single blow. I apologize to those Rebels that have to deal with characters like this that justify calling out cryers because they are asking for something that remotely feels like the Star Wars universe. So of you out there are trying to play your roles justly. Unfortunatly you, like the Empire, are a minority to the Uber seeking Rebels that would rather incapp you then dance on your unconcious body as they burn you 2 month grind Faction Perk to the ground.

This thread has become a mockery of the whole issue. I'm begining to think all this careful thought in those post that are actually trying to post ideas and find solutions are being ignored for all the back and forth slander. And unlike in beta 1, I dont see the Devs taking our ideas seriously anymore.

Its gone on for 13 pages now, Thunderheart. We need some response acknowledging your seeing some of the ideas listed in here. As it stands now, this thread is been reduced to flaming others. Its getting us nowhere.

Disappointing

LN

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Hmmm... Only reason I quoted is because these thoughts have crossed EVERY rebel I know EVERY time they see an AT ST.

What if they took the dang things completely away?

Oh! I know! You would all refuse to fight because THEN and ONLY THEN would we be on an even standing, and we all know (as is evident by this thread) that Imperial players detest anything less than a sure win, lol.

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Well, I did not mention the AT-ST in my post at all. I do not own one and by this may not be a judge regarding this. I have been chased by a rebell with some trooper pets of his own, though. I do not mind the PvP (though it can be annoying at times, especially for newbies)and am working to be able to compete on my own. PvP should be dominated by players and not by pets/NPCs/vehicles,allthoughthis certainly was so in the "real" Star Wars world.
But after all the supremacy of the Empire was within their Star-Destroyers and the ability to wipe out whole planetary populations (or at least the majority therof) by orbital bombardment. And I think this would outbalance the game a bit.

I just mind that the feeling in the imperial parts of the galaxy will loose a bit, if the amount of troopers is reduced that much further. And as far as I understood this thread, nobody minded them. Oh and should any one desire to mention the trooper armor, which I spent 17000FPs on, I wonder how many PvP kills that will survive and how many weeks of slavish FP collection will have to follow, to buy another one.

Kind regards

Sirrek Thark

Thats funny, I dont know what Im talking about because I didnt watch your little movie?

And now Im somehow not only responsible for but am forced to listen to your ridiculous justifications for the use of unbalanced and overpowered pets and as to why Imperials are outnumbered because more players on your server have chosen to be rebel?

Thanks Mofo, glad I could help by being your scapegoat here lol.

And hey... wheres my pet X-wing again? Oh.. thats a VEHICLE... riiiiight.......

Oh sorry you meant THE MOVIES!

My mistake!

lol I did read some of your posts but there was so much whining I couldnt finish them, sorry.

Hey..

Speaking of THE MOVIES......

Werent AT STs defeated with sticks and rocks?

lol Hey Devs.. Mofo is onto something here!!

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S_Thark wrote:

Well, I did not mention the AT-ST in my post at all. I do not own one and by this may not be a judge regarding this.

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The only reason I quoted you was to show that some Imperials may be feeling that they are getting into the same boat we are in. i know you didnt mention AT STs, but the mere title of the thread should allow me to relate comments in the thread to AT STs in general. There was nothing wrong with your post, you are one of the more civil people in here, so I didnt mean to offend you.

But I DO believe that as long as the Empire is using vehicles as pets.. the Rebellion deserves a vehicle as a pet too.. maybe a small tank or something, but Im pretty sure that the rebellion had ground units, and if the Empire can utilize them, why cant we?

Talk about a major screw up Devs.... you make ATST's completely worthless with this. You nerf them so they can only be used in PvP yet they absolutely suck at PvP. One commando could take one out in a heart beat... he wouldn't live... but only has to pay a 1% death decay penalty on some items and the other guy loses a 1mil to 4mil pet.... yea... sounds fair.... If you want them for PvP only then for the love of god atleast make it reasonable and take away the fire DOT.

This game is really starting to piss me off... don't know how much longer I am going to be able to take it....

RATED: BEST POST!

IMPORTANT-- PLEASE READ--

OK.. THIS MESSAGE IS FOR THE DEVs. I SAT HERE AND READ EVERY SINGLE MESSAGE ON THIS POST. I WILL COMBINE ALL THE PROS AND CONS, ALONG WITH SOME OF MY IDEAS TO THIS POST. SO, PEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY. I FULLY BELIEVE THAT WHAT I AM ABOUT TO SAY WILL FIX THE CURRENT COMPLAINS AND PROBLEMS.

1) The idea of Creature Handlers controlling more faction pets is not reasonable, and not in the spirit of Star Wars. SOLUTION: The number of Faction Pets should be determined by Faction Rank... starting with Zero for a Private, and moving up to a Max of maybe 4 faction pets. Furthermore, each pet is given a "rank classification" number. Meaning that, at a Staff Sergeant, for example, you can either pull out a Dark Trooper (which you can only aquire at Staff Sergeant), or two or three weaker faction pets (like 2 stormtroopers). At Colonel, you can get One ATST, or 3 Stormtroopers. THe maximum at Surface Marshall would be one ATST and 3 stormtroopers, but nevertwo ATSTs at once. This will give Rank a real purpose in SWG, in addition to trading faction points. Additionally, I like the idea of being able to buy faction pets at a reduced rate at higher levels.

2) The idea for Changing ATST stats to lower resists and with a higher HAM (50K) is not a bad idea. Keep that one. I would, however, change how a commando can take one down so easily. To fix this, I think Rebels should get special weapons skills or powerups at certain ranks to take out ATSTs. After all, Who better to take out a ATST then a Rebel Surface Marshall, who obvisously has all types of combat experience with Imperials. And regardless of your combat profession, you could get some Rebel Faction Weapon Powerup or Skill to take out Stormtroopers and, more importantly, ATSTs. A Commando, who just gains his first 200 FPs, should not be able to turn around and take out hordes of ATSTs. If you want balance, fight faction points with faction points. Rebel elite personal weapon-powerups or skills (gained by rank) against Imperial faction power pets (gained by rank). Afterall, in the Star Wars movies, the Rebels were able to win battles based on there special skill in something (Han Solo, Chewie, Luke) against Imperials, whose focus was on mass power (numerous stormtroopers and power machines like ATST and ATATs). So a high ranking Rebel could use his special Rebel Ranking Combat Skill to do high amounts of damage against ATSTs (and other imperial faction pets). For example, a special carbineer ATST powershot, where the user aims their weapon at a weak point in the ATST armor, or has a modifier on his weapon to peirce through ATST armor. Thus, a Imperial player with Stormtroopers or an ATST wont fear any commando, but would definetely fear a Rebel Player with the Rank of Colonel or above, regardless of what his combat profession might be, because of the special combat moves (or weapons powerups)he gets at higher rebel ranks. As a result, you have rebels trying to get rank to take out imperials, and imeprials getting rank to take out rebels. And for clarafication, the Rebel Rank allows players to ahve access to a certain skill or power-up, and then they have to spent faction to obtain the item.

3) This moves me to my Third point. There is a problem with using faction pets, like the ATST, in PvsE. I hear of hording loot and killing things that it normally takes 20 players to kill. The answer to solve this problem is NOT to refuse faction pets to attack non-covert NPCs. This is not reasonable. If I'm a Imperial Surface Marshall with a ATST and 2 Stormtroopers, and I get suprise attacked by 5 NPC pirates, you better believe I expect my troops to attack. So how do you fix the Hording Loot Problem? Easy. Any time a Faction Pet (or just a High Powered Faction Pet) or From #2 above (A Elite Rebel Skill Shot) is used against a NPC, then all valuable loot on the NPC is destroyed by the "heavy laser blast," lets say. This way, players could still use faction pets or faction weaponpowerups skills to defend themselves, but could not use the faction petsto horde loot. And because faction pets already suck up exp from their attacks, this prevents players from power leveling with them.

4) Next, let the Master Creature Handlers keep there 3 pet limit. They earned it. But to avoid double up and having 3 or 4 pets at Surface Marshall and then 3 pets as a Creature Handler for a total of 7 pets, just have a TOTAL PET CAP that can never be exceeded. Four is a good number. Therefore, a Master CH that happened to be a Surface Marshall could only have 3 creature pets and a faction pet, or visa versa. But never go over 4 pets at once (or what ever the limit is). Also, a Rancor, Graul Mauler, and ATST could be in same catagory... you can only have one out at any time.

Or better yet, if you are OVERT.. then you can only call ONE CH pet out, in addtion to any faction pets you can call out.

5) Also, there seems to be a big problem with this perma death of faction pets, and I must agree that losing 9,450K of faction to a commando would upset me also. I reccomend having a faction pet semi-perma-death. In other words, if a pet dies, then two things happens: (1) First, that pet (and rebel weapon powerup) can't be used for a certain time period, say 5 days. (2) Second, It takes a certain numberof faction points to "revive" the pet (or rebel weapon powerup) which would be based off a percentage of the total amount of faction it cost to get the pet, say 20%. So to "revive" a Stormtrooper for a Human at 420 cost would be 84 faction (in addition to waiting the 5 days). THIS CONCEPT would open up PvP again and players would only have a temporary and reasonable loss of the faction pets that they worked so hard to get. Funny how a Rancor and a ATST can both get there ass kicked, but the next day when a CH logs on he has a fully healed Rancor again, but the Imperial player has nothing but about 60 missions awaiting him for the next ATST. Only a recruiter can revive a faction pet after you PAY him the Fps.

Also, if a player chooses to pay the full price of the semi-dead faction pet at a recruiter, then that pet is revived instantly, which would be the same as buying a new faction pet anyhow.

6) IF you do have a regular special attack that can do massive damage, like the flame 2 move for Commandos, then place it in the MASTER skill box, so that if a Commando wants to take advatage of this great move, he/she must then truely master the Commando profession. Add equally powerful moves to other MASTER combat professions.

7) DECAY ISSUES. PvP has gone down dramastically since the introduction of decay. SOLUTION: Unless its a duel or a death caused by a NPC or creature, then decay doesnt take effect. In other words, Overt members who die from other overt players, or their faction pets,do not suffer decay. This will open up PvPagain,but players will stillhave to be cautious out in the wilderness.

8) Allow Droid Engineers to repair ATSTs... I would also allow them to repair the new vehicles that will come to the server, instead of having an automated garage NPC doing it. Furthermore, instead of allowing non-CH players to have non-CH pets, I would change it. Or, I do like that you are at least weaking the pets a non-ch player can have. I couldnt agree with you more. As an alternative, however, i would create different level of combat droids for non-ch players to have as a "back-up" or a "tank". I would rather see (in the spirit of SWG) players running around with various types of combat robots in the game, then them all with cowardly guerreks (mispelled, I know). And wound damage to these robots can only be fixed by the droid engineer. This would really open up their profession.

IN CONCLUSION, games do need a certain balance.. in a sense.. but that does notmean equal like in Chess whereeach side has the same pieces. In SWG, the rebels and imperials both have there own advantages and disadvatages. How and when they use them is the key to winning the war. Rebels use small crafts and highly experienced members, where Imperials use brute strength in numbers of troops and heavy weaponry.

PS, I like the idea about making all the vehicles unique with there own advantages and disadvatages... like one is faster on plains, and another is better on hills. Use that same reasoning in the Faction wars between the Rebels and the Empire, and you will have alot of happy players. And more importantly, you will truely grasp the the spirit of the Star Wars Universe.

1) I agree that faction pets should be used Faction battles or PVP only.

2) Fp pets need to be structured like CH pets. Max number and max lv dependant on rank.

3) Don't remove flame dot's on the AT-ST's but give them some, not a ton, of resilence to flame strikes and have a way to fix AT-ST's. Droids come to mind here.

4) I agree there are too many CH's out there(yes im even working on mastering it, wasn't my initial plan but seemed the only real choice i had).

5) I dont agre that pets should be limited to one unless your a CH. This is goin to only create more CH's out there. Everyone should have access to one droid one non CH(most will use those as mounts). Having these two pets is not goin to make any crucial difference in non PVP combat. If above 1 and 2 is implemented then you just gave reason for people to go overt and work on gaining rank.

Anyone notice TH never mentioned where the game is really hurting and the one proffession that can balance out alot of the pet issues,, DROID ENGINEERS. I dont mean DROID HANDLERS. Create more droid classes. Have number of droids,droid class a person can use and droid levels dependant on what fields people go in. Allow droids to be used in all combat situations. IF done right this would help those that solo(like myself) to not need the CH prof. It will give the game a more futuristic feel. And more so a more Star Wars FEEL. Im not saying have droids as strong as an AT-ST. And im not saying that a master artison who has not even picked up a weapon should have access to a High level BATTLE droid but Devs really need to sit down and figure some kind of implementation of droids so one Droid Eng's can make money and have a reason to stay with that field and two WHICH is a HUGE reason TO FIX THIS PROFFESION is im sure many if not a close to all everyone that first heard of this game thought about having a droid by there side thick and thin before they ever thought of having a Rancor there. There should be no reason to merge droids, Fp pets and CH pets into one category.

Why are the devs worried about non combat class's using a lv 15 (possibly 10 after the next scre.. oops patch) creature and a low lv(if different lv battledroids ever showed up) battle droid. There is no way that person is goin to take down a Krayte Dragon. The only thing having these two pets for a non combat class is so they can feel safe to travel and from time to time actually get the chance to enjoy combat at low levels. This would mean that HIGHER lv content can be added to the game.

So for anyone who thinks that having a current pro-bot and a lv15 creature is now a dangerous person try goin out and get a lv 30 or so mission and use those two in completing it. neither would last long.

Things this game really needs changes on:

1) Quit nerfing what's working and fix whats not

2)Balance doesn't mean take the high level content and bring it down to the low level BROKEN stuff.

3)Listen to those that are still paying your bills.

Lastly to all those rebels who are all in favor with all these changes WAKE UP. Rebels fought the Imps using fuzzy little teddy bears that threw rocks. That coming from a REBEL. AT-ST should not be push overs. But I do agree there is no reason for one person to throw 3 at ya.

*posted noting that only other players are going to read this*

Ok I just had thought, maybe someone will like it and we can push for it.

The Alliance uses old and kind of outdated equipment, right? Whatever they can get thier hands on sort of thing...

Well how about instead of a small tank like I mentioned above.. or aeven a vehicle at all (which I think is completely screwed up anyway), the Alliance gets those old Super Battle Droids, like the big mean looking ones on Geonosis in the Arena Battle?

You can give them shields so that they are on par with AT ST armor, and increase thier fire rate so that they fire fast enough to be similar to AT ST damage... I think this will not only be fair to both sides, but you can adjust them similarly and give the Imps and Rebs less to cry about here if they are both treated the same way in game updates.

I also wouldnt mind seeing BOTH of these limited to only being available to factional officer ranks.. but most Imps are already there so it will make little difference anyway in that respect, but its a thought.

Anyway I say we start a 'DROIDS FOR REBELS' campaign!

Come on, it seems fair, and it should stop ALOT of this fighting.

Think about this one Devs, I REALLY like this and NOT jsut because Im a rebel, but because the Imps cant argue with it being unfair. Its totally fair. You cant create a game universeand base everything in it solely n what was depicted on screen in the movies... Lets look into the ground units if ntohing else.. Im SURE the rebellion had something we can use as a factional pet to make this arguement die down a bit.

I didnt miss anything.

I know what you are trying to say, but this is not a novel or a prequel a sequel or anything other that must follow continuity to the T.

As you said, these are customers.

SOE has to attempt to please them or they wont stay.

What customers expect is fair gamepley.

You are advocating the use of an unfair advantage that directly corelates to how much fair play is going on.

No one wants to fight a losing battle. Thats what the AT ST represents to the Rebellion in general, a loss.

I see one, I run like hell cause its instant death to me and my pets, decay on my items, and insurance repurchasing, etc. Id rather not go through all that because I have no hope of ever winning against something that can be dropped on me at whim. I realize its part of PvP, but I dont go Overt often anymore because of all the pain AT STs have caused me. I can handle the players and other pets though.

This is a game, and right now PvP is not very enjoyable for rebels unless you are BH or commando.

We need an equalizer in PvP, regardless of your claims to continuity, though you may be earnest, it becomes irrelevant when noted that Luke did not win the GCW alone. The Empire was beaten on the ground and in the air as well eventually.

That didnt happen with CDEF carbines alone.

And the rebels deserve a similar option on PvP for game fairness.

Read my above post for my suggestion, I think it is incredibly fair for gameplay purposes and I feel it fits with continuity as well to a considerable degree.

Anyway, I dont want to fight with you, but this conflict needs to be settled in a fair way, either the AT ST needs to be crippled, or the rebels need an adequate equalizer as a factional pet.

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Thrive wrote:

Ok I just had thought, maybe someone will like it and we can push for it.

The Alliance uses old and kind of outdated equipment, right? Whatever they can get thier hands on sort of thing...

Well how about instead of a small tank like I mentioned above.. or aeven a vehicle at all (which I think is completely screwed up anyway), the Alliance gets those old Super Battle Droids, like the big mean looking ones on Geonosis in the Arena Battle?

You can give them shields so that they are on par with AT ST armor, and increase thier fire rate so that they fire fast enough to be similar to AT ST damage... I think this will not only be fair to both sides, but you can adjust them similarly and give the Imps and Rebs less to cry about here if they are both treated the same way in game updates.

I also wouldnt mind seeing BOTH of these limited to only being available to factional officer ranks.. but most Imps are already there so it will make little difference anyway in that respect, but its a thought.

Anyway I say we start a 'DROIDS FOR REBELS' campaign!

Come on, it seems fair, and it should stop ALOT of this fighting.

Think about this one Devs, I REALLY like this and NOT jsut because Im a rebel, but because the Imps cant argue with it being unfair. Its totally fair. You cant create a game universeand base everything in it solely n what was depicted on screen in the movies... Lets look into the ground units if ntohing else.. Im SURE the rebellion had something we can use as a factional pet to make this arguement die down a bit.

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They do, just not at this point in the story line. The Rebellion has JUST started, they are not going to have the resources just yet to field a large enough force to oppose the Empire.

It really doesn't matter anyhow, the devs are going to go with "the masses" that play this game, instead of sticking to the actual theme of the game like they should, and had told everyone they would.

I still have a copy of my PC Gamer from last year. In that interview I love how the interviewer asks how acurate will the game be to the Star Wars universe, and the dev says "Oh it'll be 100% acurate to the Star Wars universe."

Well it isn't, the game is now going in the direction "the masses" whine for.