Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Jedi Punchlist Feedback
Feife
Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:51 am
#274
Someof the ideas for the "revamp" are really good.... Some purely suck... It's really that simple. But the way this system is going now, it's take it and like it. You've finally asked for input, less than a week from publish... No where near enough time to adress all the issues. All this will do is piss off alot of peopleand lose a bunch of subscribers. (Yes, it is really that simple here too)
My personal opinion on this huge mess called "revamp".... Throw pub 9 and 10 in the trash, do thetop 5 hit list (preferably the original top 10 hit list). Then get the combat rebalance out ASAP. You can revamp everyone at once with the CB and get everyone into a semblance of what you see as your "vision", and fine tune as needed.
P.S. To all the people saying jedi shouldnt bepowerful.... You need to go through the torture we did to get here. Have your template be 75%COMBAT XP (1,500,000 combat xp JUST for the padawan box); withSKILL LOSSwhen you get too many deaths on the counter;CONSTANT TEF when grinding, hunting, etc....;VISIBILTY on BH terminals; REQUIRED components to even have a decent weapon (NOTE: DECENT, not uber)... ALL WE WANT HERE IS THE REQUIRED EFFORT TO BE REWARDED PROPORTIONALLY.
Sorry if this isn't what you wanted but I am seriously frustrated.
Stile - Lowca
Innitiate 4344
Pthdora
Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:07 am
#275
Rathmata wrote:
If after the conversion, we've opted to create a LS Master, we better have the resources to craft a 4th gen saber. I hope you devs aren't moronic enough to leave us unable to craft a saber that goes with our skill level (ie, 4th gen for ls masters). Most of us already know we're going to be converting into something less powerful than we had, but not being able to use our nerfed abilities without doing additional work will be unacceptable. Make sure you giving existing jedi the resources they need to craft their sabers.
No i personally think you should wait 5 goddam months like us master doctors had to do, we waited 5 months for dolo iron and cls 4 liq petro...5 MONTHS! sucks when the devs arent catering to your ass dont it? Master docs everywhere were BEGGING for this stuff...when it finnaly did spawn it was absolute **edit**, but u know **edit** is better than none at all....so IMO u should have to wait just like we did, or they need to seriously revamp advanced component resource spawning for ALL CLASSES to make balace....additionlly I think you advanced resorces need to be 10x more rare then any rare resource needed by a lesser class...
Pthdora
Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:17 am
#276
Feife wrote:
Someof the ideas for the "revamp" are really good.... Some purely suck... It's really that simple. But the way this system is going now, it's take it and like it. You've finally asked for input, less than a week from publish... No where near enough time to adress all the issues. All this will do is piss off alot of peopleand lose a bunch of subscribers. (Yes, it is really that simple here too)
My personal opinion on this huge mess called "revamp".... Throw pub 9 and 10 in the trash, do thetop 5 hit list (preferably the original top 10 hit list). Then get the combat rebalance out ASAP. You can revamp everyone at once with the CB and get everyone into a semblance of what you see as your "vision", and fine tune as needed.
P.S. To all the people saying jedi shouldnt bepowerful.... You need to go through the torture we did to get here. Have your template be 75%COMBAT XP (1,500,000 combat xp JUST for the padawan box); withSKILL LOSSwhen you get too many deaths on the counter;CONSTANT TEF when grinding, hunting, etc....;VISIBILTY on BH terminals; REQUIRED components to even have a decent weapon (NOTE: DECENT, not uber)... ALL WE WANT HERE IS THE REQUIRED EFFORT TO BE REWARDED PROPORTIONALLY.
Sorry if this isn't what you wanted but I am seriously frustrated.
Stile - Lowca
Innitiate 4344
did u grind BH...
Broke as hell...
at master they suck....wheres the proportionate skill?
Pike..nuff said
Pistoleer...ya umm no DPS
fencer..dodge and stun stick...thats it
commado..nuff said
TKA...close to good for the time
MHS....shure if u want pve only
Smuggler...i cant smuggle...
Rifleman...woot i get headshot..stun
carbineer...I can kill me before you can kill me
master marksman..ya right
master brawler...see master marks
did i miss ne?
This is not just aproblem with jedi...all classes have serious letdown and advantages...IMO TKA, Fencer and rifleman are the only classes even close to working as intented or balanced.....
Dracass
Sat Jun 26, 2004 11:28 am
#277
Hairballs007 wrote:
Devs saw their weak melee defense design for jedi was somewhat circumvented by jedi's using Heavy composite armor sliced up to 90 effect and with stun resists.
In patch 9 revamp, Devs removed armor from jedi, purposely limiting melee defensive capabilites to original design.
For PVP, they have balanced a level 1 FRS Jedi approximatly on equal to a Melee master (who does not possess Burn Dots or disease or a Slice 65% PSG.) .. Devs suggest jedi dont PVP non jedi (per quote... Jedi should stay out of the meat grinder....until they reach FCS levels) While many consider this bad, it is not class crippling since Force use tef has been removed.
...
Jedi are the worst of all melee Defensive classes in patch 9 AND THIS IS EXACLY WHAT THE DEVS INTENDED in both original and patch jedi versions.
This patch is a terrible insult those people who spent 1000's of hours working to get jedi only to find out at best it is only Equal to FOTM melee template in PVP and Horribly Crippled for PVE.
Thanks for that post, it does provide postive information as to why Jedi/Sith should have low defenses.
Andpointing out the error of their ways as well.
Even if the Jedi/Sith are expected to be the worst in Melee Defenses compared to all classes, it just doesn't make since at all compared to the Movies and Real Life (normally it is one or the other, but not both). No sense of Continuity.
It seems that then the best template would be a Jedi/Fencer/TK. (Heh, the irony of bein' both a Jedi and TK... can anyone use offical Star War's information to explain that one?)
Feife
Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:11 pm
#278
ROFL.... unlocked on BH profession #30.. and you are right they should be alot better than they are.
Seshemw
Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:52 am
#279
Dracass wrote:
It seems that then the best template would be a Jedi/Fencer/TK. (Heh, the irony of bein' both a Jedi and TK... can anyone use offical Star War's information to explain that one?)
Sure. read TH's passalong of Haden's info from the EU.
Basically, several of the quotes involved a Jedi Master who was also a Teras Kasi master in a tournament. The Jedi lost. The Jedi claimed that he'd used no Force powers, because it would've been a tainted victory and polluted the pure form of teras kasi.
so... Just like Darth maul was both Force (Sith) trained and TK, and (Shadows of the Empire's introduced and killed Jedi Master whose name escapes me) was Jedi Master and TK, it happens.
TK as 'watchers' of the Jedi I just don't get, and have seen no evidence of in actual EU stuff. I'm not talking about on the dustcover for a jedi arena game on playstation, I hardly think that's cannon, I'm talking about the databanks, the majority of the novels, and the role playing games (West End, and Wizards of the Coast). Those are the (general) canon, and none of them have any particular contradiction to being both TK and Jedi.
Emir
Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:16 am
#280
just a question..
im near padwan.. so its better to hit padawan before revamp or hold the xp?
tnx
GuanYing
Sun Jun 27, 2004 4:18 pm
#281
TheZabrakMaul wrote:
MrTeaGTR wrote:
JEDI SHOULD BE THE MOST FEARED CLASS IN THE GAME. NOT SOME CLASS WHERE AN ELITE MELEE CLASS CAN KILL THEM
A MELEE CLASS COULDNT GET WITHIN ARMS REACH OF A JEDI WITH A SABER WITHOUT BEING CHOPPED UP.
Have you watched the Star Wars films or read any of the books? The Jedi aren't quite as uber as you seem to think they are, just look at the number of Jedi that were slain at the hands of Trade Federation battle droidsat the end of Episode II in the Geonosian arena. And what about the one that was shot to bits by Jango Fett on the ledge? And the gruelling duel between Obi-Wan and Jango on Kamino? It is perfectly fair to say that a master combat class should have a fair chance against a Jedi, and it should be a hard and satisfying battle for both players. The exeption to this, i think, should be a battle with a Jedi in the PvP Force Ranking system. In this instance i believe that Jedi should be made much harder to kill by any combat class, save bouny hunter perhaps (you should still have something to fear besides your own class!). The entry into the force ranking system signifies a player's entry into a 'Jedi Council' and if you look at the films, the members of the Jedi Council are the biggest bad-asses in the galaxy! However i will reiterate the point that all Jedi, no matter how powerful, should always have someone that can beat them. Naturally this should be Bounty Hunters if the devs are looking at using them to keep the Jedi population under control, regardless we will see what the devs have planned reasonably soon (hopefully).
Don't fool yourself. The battle at the Geonosian arena hadhundreds of Geonosians if not over a thousand and over a hundred battle droids and super battle droids compared the 30-40 or so jedi. The jedi were outnumbered at least 20 to one, so it makes sense that they lost about half their number to kill the whole horde of enemies. The one shot up by Jango on the ledge was a no-namer... so who knows? was he still a low level padawan?
I agree that jedi should have someone still to fear, but that should be higher level jedi. Do you really think the Emperor or Darth would be afraid of any number of bounty hunters? Sure they have a huge imperial army, but even with nobody helping them, any bounty hunter would DIE, very very easily. Bounty Hunters are really really cool, but they should only be a match for lower level jedi who haven't completed their training, and NON-jedi.
I think Bounty Hunters should have their skillsand mods beefed up big time, they have a pretty raw deal, but nerfing jedi down to current BH level isn't the answer.
Message Edited by GuanYing on 06-27-2004 04:19 PM
Carrion1
Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:21 pm
#282
Well this response is a big FU to all the Jedi... Can i please have the purchase price of 4 accounts and a total of 48 months of subscription returned please, this revamp makes everything i have strived for in this game completely worthless... Oh yea can you please pay me for beta testing your game.
Carrion1
Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:43 pm
#283
Hmmm I seem to remember one of these dev's stating pre-release.. "We don't want to dummy down Jedi" ... wonder who that could be and if he realizes thats exactly what is happening.
Huin
Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:58 am
#284
Wellforce powersget no heal. So how about a Siphon life spell? I drain your life to give to mines. Very necromantic and evil . Plus this power exists already in a lucas art licenced game. The healer is a specialist at healing himself. The Enahcer is specialist at draining .Force right now is only good at wastingforce so you can die quickly . IFForce powershad a drain life speel instead of the heal. I bet there would be tons of people actually using this tree!!So pretty much if he has no one to drain he can't heal. Sounds perfect to me!!
Remove lightning
In the lightning line you have your drain life spell. So you get a drain 1 and a drain 2 and finally a Master drain that can get past enhance buffs.
We are going to run out of force and die anyways at least like this we have a MINIMAL chance of survival VS a healer/enh template.
Force powers is currently useless against a enhance template. All we do is damage ourselves. How about a weaken that actually weakens??Weakens the persons resists a tad so we can do SOME kind of damage.
So then we will have a FEW people actually doing something like Master saber/ Master Powers /4 0 0 4 enhance .
LRRCP
Mon Jun 28, 2004 1:06 pm
#285
Don't fool yourself. The battle at the Geonosian arena hadhundreds of Geonosians if not over a thousand and over a hundred battle droids and super battle droids compared the 30-40 or so jedi. The jedi were outnumbered at least 20 to one, so it makes sense that they lost about half their number to kill the whole horde of enemies. The one shot up by Jango on the ledge was a no-namer... so who knows? was he still a low level padawan?
I agree that jedi should have someone still to fear, but that should be higher level jedi. Do you really think the Emperor or Darth would be afraid of any number of bounty hunters? Sure they have a huge imperial army, but even with nobody helping them, any bounty hunter would DIE, very very easily. Bounty Hunters are really really cool, but they should only be a match for lower level jedi who haven't completed their training, and NON-jedi.
I think Bounty Hunters should have their skillsand mods beefed up big time, they have a pretty raw deal, but nerfing jedi down to current BH level isn't the answer.
You are trying the Spider Man vs Bat Man in a fight who would win comparison.
If a base takedown group was nuked by a single jedi player how quick do you think the cries of NURF would be heard in the Forums?
Simple fact not everyone wants to play jedi but they may still want to PVP, if it took 20+ elite master class types to take down a single jedi then PVP would be dead as no one would bother at that point.
There are many players who are not happy with the number of Jedi in the game at this point.
Remember at the end of Return of the Jedi, Luke was the only jedi left at all and a weak one at that.
I predict in 2 months after the release of this publish pvp will be jedi only as most players will have gone that rout so they can PVP and stand a chance.
CaptainCloak
Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:01 pm
#286
Thunderheart wrote:
The Jedi Correspondent has distilled a lot of the feedback and produced a Punchlist.The team thought it was a pretty good list and I liked the community mechanics, so between now and the publish; we will update you on this Punchlist.
Please post your Feedback!
I will post my feedback.
I did notice that you said between now and the publish, you will update us on this Punchlist. I did notice over 300 posts were written in this thread that contained feedback that was requested.
I HAVE SEEN NO FORM OF "UPDATE" FROM DEVELOPERS ON THIS PUNCHLIST.
Unfortunately, I'm uncertain as to what category that belongs in.
--Mikka