Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Jedi Punchlist Feedback
SpawnLOD
Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:26 pm
#261
Jedi Conversion-
Ok I know theres been alot of contraversy (spelling?) on the whole Padawan Skill point issue. How about this, Instead of getting 77 points for Padawan give us 79 points. As it stands with the 77 points we are able to get 0/4/4/4 in 1 Tree, but theres 6 points left over that we loose. So in essence we are only getting 6 points for the padawan box. If we had 79 points, then we would at least be able to use all the points and get something to the effect of 1/4/4/4 in 1 tree.
Tarq
Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:57 am
#262
I ask, where is the reward?
1- month camping for holocrons
4- months grinding professions
3- months grinding jedi
And a single Stacked melee profession that takes 1 week at most to make, kicks my but?
I ask again, Where is this great reward?
MrTeaGTR
Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:22 am
#263
THUNDERFOOL,
LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY ON ALL OF THEM.
WITH 4 SKILL TREES WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO MASTER 3 AND A PARTIAL OF ANOTHER.
NONE OF US WILL HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME TEMPLATE.
I AM POSITIVELY SICK OF YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS GIVING US SOMETHING THAT WE DESERVE
HEAL BATTLE FATIGUE SELF SHOULD BE A NOVICE ABILITY . IS IT REALLY OVERPOWERING NOT HAVING
TO GO TO THE FRIGGIN ENTERTAINER EVERY 2 HOURS BECUASE WE HAVE GOTTEN 500BF.
EVERYONE HAS DIFFERENT VIEWS ON WHAT THEY WANT THERE JEDI TO BE.
JEDI SHOULD BE THE MOST FEARED CLASS IN THE GAME. NOT SOME CLASS WHERE AN ELITE MELEE CLASS CAN KILL THEM
A MELEE CLASS COULDNT GET WITHIN ARMS REACH OF A JEDI WITH A SABER WITHOUT BEING CHOPPED UP.
JEDI POWERS NOT ENOUGH DAMAGE
CRYSTAL DROPS NOT ENOUGH OF EM
LIGHTSABER CRAFTING POOR RESOURCE SELECTION
CONVERSION POOR.
WHO REVAMP POOR.
DO YOU REALLY WANT THIS GAME ENDING UP LIKE ANOTHER DARK AGE OF CAMELOT??
ArianSix
Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:31 am
#264
Request: Fix force drain
Force drain will drain force at a rate much lower than the regeneration rate. Makes it pretty useless.
I drained up to 100 force every 4-5 seconds... the person I was test dueling with was regenning at a rate that made this useless. Try doing this during a real duel and the person will laugh at you because the attempt is so pitiful.
-- A6
Hairballs007
Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:40 am
#265
MrTea. Dont Give thunderheart a hardtime. He is our rep to Sony developers. It is no way his fault that Varant/Sony developer follow a long tradition of ignoring/abusing customers that began with EQ. (in EQ complaining customer were banned by the hundreds... no joke)
Frankly, I am surprised that he effected their path at all given their path history and customer antipathy. Not that I blame devs, we clearly dont like them either.
Frankly, I am surprised that he effected their path at all given their path history and customer antipathy. Not that I blame devs, we clearly dont like them either.
Message Edited by Hairballs007 on 06-25-2004 07:41 AM
TheZabrakMaul
Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:47 am
#266
MrTeaGTR wrote:
JEDI SHOULD BE THE MOST FEARED CLASS IN THE GAME. NOT SOME CLASS WHERE AN ELITE MELEE CLASS CAN KILL THEM
A MELEE CLASS COULDNT GET WITHIN ARMS REACH OF A JEDI WITH A SABER WITHOUT BEING CHOPPED UP.
Have you watched the Star Wars films or read any of the books? The Jedi aren't quite as uber as you seem to think they are, just look at the number of Jedi that were slain at the hands of Trade Federation battle droidsat the end of Episode II in the Geonosian arena. And what about the one that was shot to bits by Jango Fett on the ledge? And the gruelling duel between Obi-Wan and Jango on Kamino? It is perfectly fair to say that a master combat class should have a fair chance against a Jedi, and it should be a hard and satisfying battle for both players. The exeption to this, i think, should be a battle with a Jedi in the PvP Force Ranking system. In this instance i believe that Jedi should be made much harder to kill by any combat class, save bouny hunter perhaps (you should still have something to fear besides your own class!). The entry into the force ranking system signifies a player's entry into a 'Jedi Council' and if you look at the films, the members of the Jedi Council are the biggest bad-asses in the galaxy! However i will reiterate the point that all Jedi, no matter how powerful, should always have someone that can beat them. Naturally this should be Bounty Hunters if the devs are looking at using them to keep the Jedi population under control, regardless we will see what the devs have planned reasonably soon (hopefully).
Fobik
Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:01 am
#267
Well here is Glenda's 10 cents.
As we all know there is a want fromt he players and a need to keep away by the Devs. I understand a few of the things TH says here like not moving bf healing to a lower block and such...that would only infuriate the dancers and musicians to a level of killer hornets looking for blood. There ARE a few issues I would like to talk about here that it seems THunderheart has no idea on. Maybe I can help him and the Development team understand something.
I am totally fine with melee being a weak area for jedi..not a problem. I have to kill critters at melee range 90% o the time but that I am cool with. Here is where we enter into an issue.
1. Jedi in cloak vs Tk with no armor...fairly good fight if TK gets KD on jedi and dizzy's him and crap. Saw that happen a million times about a month ago in normal classes. HOWEVER you are forgetting one very important thing..the battle is like this....TK vs Jedi ..TK has armor and Jedi has none.
Ok you say we have force armor..that is cool but we really do not have force armor. We have force armor with 6 second lag to the server. Tel you waht..Ill trade all the force armor in the world for that 6 second lag time.
2. My only other complaint is your removal of xp from force powers. There are TONS of jedi that do not use sabers (please no flaming) You are basically locking us into the saber profession to level. THis is not fair to someone who wants to play a jedi healer in a group or a Force powered healer. I KNOW your Dev team is hard pressed but I mean really you have an issue here from atleast me.
In conclusion,I know you wont do anything about this because those who create think their creation is perfect. Fo 8 months now I have watched you do EXACTLY what the people on the forums begged you to do with the regular classes. I think you need to listen up here.
Love
GLenda
ramladu
Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:21 pm
#268
If I am a 4 2 3 4 dark apprentice right now, will I have to go through the knight trials? Should I slave over my computer and get the remaining xp to avoid having to kill some goraks and death watch guys when I know I could be guardian in a week or two whereas after the system comes to play, I magically, as a requirement,must kill these creatures no one before me has had to and thus take many more weeks of dry eyes, dusk til dawn camping?
I guess I am just disturbed that magically I must now camp and kill creatures for a reward that those who have the reward now have never had to pursue. It's the nature of the beast - I am mature about it. I just think it is all pretty silly when you look at the macro picture of how this game was developed before it hit the stores, then all the fundamental bugs that existed and continue to exist, and then even the prized profession advertised on the box having a complete re-working. For example, how could you before the game was available have not seen that people would holo-grind the game to death and disrubt the economy. Secondly, how could you not see the inflation that would exist as more people played the game, harvested resources, shared lots, and did more missions? People that buy armor and food use credits that they get while doing missions, which create money at a much faster rate than the cost to supply those goods (assuming the supplier is efficient-which a competitive marketplace would pressure him/her to be).
The armorsmith or chef takes that money to pay harvesters and factories a minimal charge (merchant bonus, shared lots, just in time inventory management) to keep productive. Quite honestly, and it sucks to admit it - with an increase in player population doingmissions (say if the daily average number of missions grows by at least 5%) that would indicate to me that the supply of people (hunters/grinders) willing to do missions, would cause a decrease in both DEMAND for work needed (mission trustees requesting missions done) and the amount of pay for those missions (as SUPPLY of hunters increases).
So that is all negative, where's my advice/support, how do I tie this back into Jedi?
I feel you should take another week and let things hash out and analyze the results. Reasonably pushing the deadline back again is acceptable to me for a, how did I put it before, the prized professionadvertised on the box. I say this because if you already turned things upside down on a project (Jedi revamp), whats another few weeks to ensure a six sigma quality product? Sure you have deadlines and your team leads will put heat on getting projects completed, but when it comes to customers, everything is critical. Especially when you are at a level where most if not all people that care so much about the jedi profession are people that see it as a pinnicle or zenith experience in the game. Meaning, once you achieve it and can go as far as you can without burning out, its time to move to a new game; a new competitior. After being a jedi and the best you can be given human stress and anger factors over game development and other players, who will formally, long-termrevert back to a simpler profession after they have tasted the nectar? Some will try, but after a few months, everything will be completed. There may be a new quest issued that will temporarily excite people into logging on and beating it over a weekend, but that is not sustaining.
lagasse
Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:30 pm
#269
ow, that took a bit to read, but u r right...im comfrotable with another 1 or 2 weeks. i dont think i like the idea of decreasing mission pay though...but im spoiled...and fat....food sales are good.
Aerius
Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:02 pm
#270
Hi, please read this thread:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=420413
In a nutshell, pearl conversion/saber deconstruction is seriously messed up. Please take a look at it and advise.
There is hard data inside, not another fluff opinion thread.
Rathmata
Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:12 pm
#271
Devs --- Here is specific data on the the problems (minor understandment) with lightsaber conversion:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=jedi&message.id=420413
Can the programmer really talk his way out of this hard data? It's a bug, and it's at the top of many of our concern list... please address it.
Slagalot
Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:43 pm
#272
Force Powers
Force powers wont be an option unless they also offer toughness. As it stands saber offers both offense and defense so it will be the best option. I kno theres no way to code in some kind of powers toughness so the only thing that can make powers viable is amping them up a bit more, but still master enhancers will own
GuanYing
Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:55 pm
#273
Skills - Everyone thinks the skill pt costs are too restrictive. I agree and even think the individual box mods are weak across the board... BUT, I think for purposes of making a more rewarding experiance ie BETTER GAME, you should seriously consider reducing jedi skill costs. The planned system in revamp is just way too restrictive. Current guardians are totally nerfed, and against non jedi temploiters, Jedi are at a total disadvantage. Non jedi can even master 3 full professions, Jedi have no hope of even mastering all there is that jedi has to offer. They have to sacrifice lots of abilities that are considered essential no matter how they make their character. Against a temploiter, even new school jedi are gonna be weak.
More importantly, jedi will always be sacrificing abilities that are tough to live without. There's no way argue it, in PVP jedi will nearly always go for the best combat skill set. Whether its lightsaber/defense or saber/enhance or saber/healer... whatever proves to be most effective in pvp (since its required for FRS) is what nearly all jedi will use, the system just forces you to go that way. So when your goal is to diversify jedi, what you're actually doing is forcing all jedi into a single skill set, or a template in the most exact meaning possible. All jedi will be copies of each other, same stats, just different names and visage. So thats doing the exact opposite of diversification. You might as well let jedi eventually learn ALL skills again.
Personally when I heard a rumor that as you go up in rank you would be allowed to learn more boxes I thought that was a good idea and being restricted didn't bother me. But even a council leader will never know more skills than he did at knight. Not really a master of the force, justa knight with higher skill mods. Try to consider reducing the skill cost, or a minimum grant extra boxes as you progress up the FRS, or both would be even better.
EDIT: Forgot to add... If you want more diversity than just everyone having the same template, you need to make every box useful. Every level 1 box across the line should be really really good to encourage people to go outside just straight up the 2 best masteries, and half of another one. Additionally, make every level 4 box REALLY REALLY good too, so that you're rewarded just as much by going UP skill columns are you are going ACROSS skill rows... I know thats easier said than done, but at the moment everyone will be flocking to the same skill set...
Message Edited by GuanYing on 06-25-2004 07:00 PM