Development Cycle Archive
Thread: AT-ST changes on Test Center
ok people listin here, every one including the great people who built this wonderfull game are wondering why there are so many rebels well from what i see is yes the AT-ST i feel sence they get them they are equal to 10-20 men depending on what the skills the players have
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I've read 70% of this ongoing 12 page thread and skimmed the rest, especially the "You suck" & "Thanks for nerfing the AT-ST, dev's!" posts. There are some good points made by both Imperial and Rebel players. Though many players on either side of the opposing factions seem to disagree on what exactly the AT-ST should be like ingame, many players seem to agree that Creature Handlers should not have unique perks for faction personnel and items.
"As many of you know, the AT-ST is a faction pet..."
Yes, andthis is what bothers many AT-ST owners. The AT-ST is considered a pet, which somehow magicallytranslates to creature, which allows Creature Handlers to have triple the faction pet support than any other profession. I do agree with the reasoning behind the Creature Handler profession changes, becauseCreature Handlersshould have a unique mastery of Star Wars Galaxies bestiary. However, the AT-ST shouldnot be classified as a pet.
"...the majority of players wanted to remove AT-ST’s from PvE, except in cases of Faction Missions and we agree with you. That change has been implemented. Our reasoning was pretty much in line with yours in that for the most part, Imperial Soldiers don’t have free reign with their equipment and shouldn’t be off shooting womp rats and collecting money from settlers for doing odd jobs. AT-STs are war machines and should be off fighting the war. Sure this is an MMO and players get a lot of leeway to do what they want, but in the greater scheme of things, AT-ST’s should be chasing down rebels and not farming pelts."
A majority of players want AT-ST's to be repairable in some way, shape, or form. This has been submitted time and time again by players to developers and their representatives on these forums. Permanent death applies to all faction pets, but the AT-ST still remains (as far as I know) the only faction pet that cannot be repaired or healed. I agree with you, AT-ST's should be chasing down Rebels. Unfortunately, they are often stored inImperial datapads, because they cannot be repaired if they survive a PVP encounter.
Please, consider this change for a hotfix or publish after the Vehicle publish. Please help us, Thunderheart. You're our only hope.
worton22 wrote:
I'm sorry if this was a bit harsh, I did include some suggestions in that, so let me recap them without the built-up anger over this whole thing.
1. most important, LET US HEAL THE WOUNDS, PERIOD. This must be done for these things to ever get pulled out in PVP, ever.
2. One time death hurts, very badly, Commandos still rip through these things very easy.
3. Hurry up and code the **edit** thing as a combat vehicle already, then we'll all be happy
Strange.... I am a rebel... A lot of Imps say... "we will pull it out again in pvp if xyz". Hmm... I can remember serveral times Imps getting out their AT-ST. And everytime it was a sure death for a large group of rebels. A group larger then the multiple of two. There are around 2 rebels on 1 Imperial. You take out an AT-ST and kill 10-20 rebels for sure? And if you are fast enough killing the commandos, you can even stay with your pet for some more round.
There are rebels who converted to Imps to see how it is to be "outnumbered". All of them found there live much easier then that of a rebel...
Hey guys... stop it... pvp is ment to be a challenge not a -sure to killing all rebel- game.
SOE you are doing a great job on that issue. But also for a CH, there should be only one AT-ST per player.
Just my two cents...
Xiro wrote:
And if you are fast enough killing the commandos, you can even stay with your pet for some more round.
If you kill the the commandos, they clone and come back covert with a group TEF, making them untouchable until their first attack, which is almost always a pointblank flamecone on the biggest group they can find. There is no way to avoid this besides not using AT-ST in PVP if there's any chance of a commando showing up.
"You take out an AT-ST and kill 10-20 rebels for sure? And if you are fast enough killing the commandos, you can even stay with your pet for some more round."
If you have a group of 10-20 rebels, and they attack the AT-ST and NOT the person controlling it, it's your tactics that are messed up,it's not that AT-ST's are too powerful.
I can see the developers are honestly trying to make the game better, but in some ways, I feel they're just going to lose subscriptions. From what you have said in the past, you are now contridicting yourselves. The last statistics I viewed the servers are around 65 percent Rebel, the rest neutral or Imperial which in the reality of Star Wars it is exactly the opposite. You said you have to figure out a way to get more people to join the Empire. I would not be surprised to see an increase of the neutral/rebel factions now after these changes. Now while some of the changed make perfect sense such as the Creature handler being able to have a limit on their creature pets and the AT STs being only for PvP and factional PvE. Those changes are more in the Star Wars reality spectrum, and should be implimented into the game. But from what I notice about certain aspects such as fire DOT damage to AT STs (if you played the game, you would notice that no one uses them for PvP for the fear that they will lose such an accomplishment of saving the FP to buy one) , the limitations to the numberNPC pets, and the worthlessness of rank, it seems that the developers have stopped playing the game and are loosing their creative aspects from which they used to try to create the game. Instead of truely viewing the game from a gamers perspective and from the perspective of your main target market ( die hard star wars fans wanting to live their fantasies), you're starting to view the game in logistical manners, as a pure system of mathematics. Add this, minus that, divide this, multiply that. Use the creative brainstorming you used back in 2001, 2002, when you first dreamed up this game. Use that initial perspective that you had as Star Wars fans wanting to work on this project. You're going to have tostop viewing this game in the logical aspect and switch gears back to a creative aspect. There are a plethora of ideas that could be implied into this game that will give it the feel of what you first wanted us to feel. Some simple changes I will be glad to state which will probably be viewed as an amateur ideas considering I don't know the dynamics of game developement, I only know my opinion which was stated above.
First thing first.... make rank worth something, at least let it show when you're overt next to your name.Like NPC overt rebels/imperials. ie. Major Hapa'ono Mofo. And there should be a "rank tree" stated by someone earlier in this forum. A tree that will grant you "skills" or "perks" based on your rank. And just like xp points you will have to spend you fp points on this rank just as you do now. You could give the game a simple star wars feel with easy implimintations like if you were an imperial officer if you wished to talk to an enlisted NPC they would salute you, give you a feeling of accomplishment of achieving such a rank. Simple things that could make you feel that you've accomplished something.
Another Idea could be grand quests. You want people to work together in this game that is obvious. The symbiotic relationship everyone has to have with everyone. Medics heal you, entertainers heal you, merchants supply you, suppliers supply merchants etc etc. That is a wonderfull idea for player interaction. But you could take this a step further. An all imperial guild could have a grand quest given to their guild only. The guild leader could get a message to meet Vadar, Thrawn, Veers etc. to recieve this quest. Information could be held at the highest level and let the Leader of the guild woulddelegate down the chain of command. Give purpose to the guild and the players in general. The quest for the armorsmith was great. Gave the armorsmithsmore of a purpose rather than to grind away and sell away. But human beings feel motivated when they have a purpose, it's general psycology, in this game they're lacking that basic need, a need that needs to be fullfilled over and over again unless subscriptions are going to be canceled. Server assigned CSR that are knowing in the game and that who play the game could see which guilds get these quests and so on. Give a unique feel to your purpose in the galaxy and also make the game more for your original target audience.
Two simple ideas, there are so many more that players and I'm sure developers, and CSRs have. I have plenty more but I've wrote a novel already which I doubt anyone will actually reply or read. But with hope mabye someone will or even more hope a developer or CSR. A reply from thunderbolt would make my year lol. But all i would really want to see, is the developers start doing some serious creative brainstorming, stop thinking so logical and keep us star wars fans playing for a long time.
(I must appologize for my grammer, I'm not the best writer by far)First, I agree with most, all faction pets should be tied to rank. So having only 1 at-st or trooper out isn't the solution to people having three out in PvE. Tie it to rank please.
Second, thank you very much for removing the DoT affects like bleeding metal and poisoned metal....you did forget one tho burning metal. For all you out there that posted that metal does burn look at tanks in battlefield yada yada...the flame from a flamethrower can not burn metal...again, flame from a flamethrower can NOT burn metal. The tanks you must mention most likely have either been hit in a fuel cell and the fuel is burning or hit with a tank killer shell (ie phosphorus tank shell that burns in excess of 4000 degrees farenheit). So, take the flame DoT off the at-st. Make them have less HAM if you will but don't try to argue that metal will burn from a flamethrower..and don't say napalm because then you are really showing your intelligence.
No at-st in PvE. I have no problems with this.
Make at-st wounds repairable. Allow Droid Engineers to make something along the lines of a vitality pack to be used to repair at-st wounds. Or allow the owner to pay a maintenance on them to repair them or place resources in them whatever you want but make them repairable. All other faction pets can have their wounds tended to so an at-st should be allowed to as well.
You devs have a misconception or bias to rebels that keep you from making the game "starwarsy". Too many creatures running around and alot less faction pets. Fix this please.
Oh, and while you are at it fix insured items to no decay so people can pvp again.
If you won't take the flame DoT off the at-st, I would like to get my 19k faction back so I can be something more useful, say a piece of furniture or something.
GrandMufTartkin wrote:
Shame on you people. Stop with the spin.
You sit there and cry that commandos chew up the at-st, and that is why you are mad, but the reality of it is you are really mad about not being able to solo frickin Krayt dragons and farm holocrons.
If you are going to complain, at least be honest with it. Just tell everyone you think that soloing creatures that where not meant to be solo'ed, and farming holocrons with the most powerful pet in the game that requires no certification is fair.
Just yell....
I want the most powerful pet in the game without spending any skill points so I can solo Krayts and farm holocrons!!
It is not fair that I wont be able to do that any more.
Ohh, and the AT-ST is a useless faction pet? What does that make the rebel troopers?
Everyone can now only pull out one faction pet. At least your ONE pet is 1000 times better than the rebels. Shut up and be thankful, bunch of greedy whiners.
/APPLAUD!!
The thing that irks me is that screenshot of the day.. thats what the ATST will be regulated too.. a display piece while people chill in a camp, having a jawa juice. For Kauri I believe these changed will effectely remove the ATST from the game.
If that makes rebels-devs happy.. I guess so be it.
But I'd bet its not going to help the metrics which already say imps are outnumbered.
In exchange for faction points at the recruiter an AT-ST should be repaired. Just calculate the original price for the STin balance to the amount of wounds for the repair cost. They will still be used to farm factionpoints so repair doesn't need to be cheap .
But there is one thing about factionpets i have to say ..... why not giving these 'pets' factionlevels ?
Its rediculous that factionpets dont have them ..... a faction durni called senior rebel urban guerilla , a factionfalumpaset callled stormtrooper commando and a faction rancor also called AT-ST all count as 1 factionpet . that is the wrong way to handle this . Give factionpet control level to the faction rank (this way it might get a single sense ) and for example an imperal colonel a factionpet level about 50 , at-st level 30 , darktrooper level 10 .. all other factionlevel 5 . So he mightcall 5 darktrooper , 10 commandos or even an at-st together with 4 stormtrooper commandos .
Ok, so AT-ST's getting even more nerf.I couldnt imagined a nerf beyond the previous one , so thanks for showing that to me lol.
While you make these changes, can you also make a change for faction recruiters so that they can buy them back from us.There is no point of wasting your 9.5k of faction points to a walking junk, either remove them from the game or make them un-buyable but fix its stats.
Talking about raising imperial population? These help alot i am sure =P
Jasnyx wrote:"You take out an AT-ST and kill 10-20 rebels for sure? And if you are fast enough killing the commandos, you can even stay with your pet for some more round."
If you have a group of 10-20 rebels, and they attack the AT-ST and NOT the person controlling it, it's your tactics that are messed up,it's not that AT-ST's are too powerful.
I agree with you... a lot of rebels have no tactics at all... only if you call: "get killed, come back, get killed again" a tactic... But a lot of Imperials use this tactic either. Just if you are an Imperial and pull out an AT-ST you -will- kill more Rebels even without any tactic.
Ok let me try to explain my point. You spend about 9000fp for an AT-ST as a Human. Anybody playing non Human knew from the start, that their life will be harder. If you pull out your AT-ST it will be at risc... and there will be a commando who sooner or later will toast it. But how many Rebels did you catch with it before that happend? How many fraction missions did you do with it? If you use tactics you will pull it out if the chances are high that it will survive. So you definitly get some benefit from these fp spent.
If I come with my 450fp senior whatever rebels... mostly all are lost in a battle, that is 1350 FP. But what harm did those fp perks do to the Imps? Nearly none, the only good use is as a decoy and make it look like a real battle
Hey, it is ok, I don't ask for an Rebel powertoy... rebels should be underpowered. But if you look at the cost benefit scheme you will see that a AT-ST is a good invest anyway.And if I where an Imperial, I would only call my AT-ST in PvP if I have saved the FP for a new AT-ST already... which is not that hard if you use an AT-ST for the missions, isn't it?
Go start a Rebel on an other server and look what will happen after you gain your first 9000fp... Nothing, it will be as slow and hard to get the FP as before...So pleace... AT-ST get killed... and always will... as all perks do by the way...
All Rebels fear AT-ST, only AT-ST owners need to fear Commandos...
That is fair enough in my eyes...
First off... Rebel commandos outnumber AT STs 10 to 1. Second... One commando can take out 2 AT STs as I've seen it done before. I see where you're coming from as far as the faction perks for rebels, but as you well know this is a ROLEplaying game. So basically you need to play your role. As your role in this galaxy, you are a rebel, a fighter for justice and the rebublic. You did not join the rebelion for power or for perks, that is what the Empire is for, you joined for freedom, which will be the ultimate perk when you win. Rebels are weak in terms of equipment and funding. They're strong in terms of tactics, ethics, and later to come, they're ability to combat in space where the battle is really won. They had fewer but superior fighters and better pilots. But basically you need to know your role as far as yourcomplaints go. At Sts are supposed to take out 20 rebels, that is their ROLE. They should not be killed by a single commando. Look at the battle of Hoth and Endor. A lot of rebels died due to At Sts and I didn't see one go down by a rebel troop or a group of troops for that matter. (Ewoks yea, but everyone knows and agrees that is ridiculous). Chewie took one but of course he is a hero, he's supposed to... that is his ROLE. KNOW YOUR ROLE IN THE GALAXY, the war is not supposed to be fair, the Empire is anything BUT fair, you'rerole however as arebel, is to put up with it and fight it the best you can with what you can which does not include complainingon forums until things are changed.
AT STs PvEchange isa good one
HAM/Armor nerf.... acceptable... ATATs should only haveheavy armor
Being killedby a single commando?No.... Highly unlikely... maybe if thecommando gets about 5 or so rocket launcherhard hits without himself/herself gettinghit. So NO flame DOT...
Faction pets for masterchs'..... I'm lost on that one... didn't know that being a leader of a troop(s) required skills in taming, and training of animals... Thought it required more of a leadership type quality... such as rank.
The game is in dire need of the "right" attention as statedin an earlier post.