Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Crafting Critical Failure Rates
Don't go hiding from us now TH.
You made these statements, now come defend them if thats what you actually believe.
If you don't defend them, then you are saying that what you posted, you either lied about, or wasn't knowledgeable enough, and shouldn't have commented.
Zarathustra wrote:
Just for the record, World of Warcraft has no critical failures in their tradeskills, why? People don't find them fun! It's horrible to spend all your hard earned money on vibro motors, krayt tissues, pearls, force crystals, etc...only to have a critical failure sending millions of credits down the toilet!
FumblerMJM wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:Just for the record, World of Warcraft has no critical failures in their tradeskills, why? People don't find them fun! It's horrible to spend all your hard earned money on vibro motors, krayt tissues, pearls, force crystals, etc...only to have a critical failure sending millions of credits down the toilet!
/absolutely agree!
ditto agree - in the current system - crit fails add nothing pleasant to my gaming experience
In terms of no-fizzle, lets also note that Everquest that *OTHER* game produced by Sony features a skill set system that allows players (particularly spell casters) to train points that completely eliminates fizzles from the vast majority of their spells. I think they can eliminate all fizzles on spells level 58 or under.
That same game, Everquest, also features a skill set system that lets players earn points that they can spend on skills that also reduces dramatically, their failure rates on producing crafted goods.
There is *NO* reason why Star Wars Galaxies, a game that sells itself as being a second generation MMO, can't have features that helps *MASTERS* reduce their critical fail rate.
- Pahbi
Anabelle wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
Vashner wrote:
Will removing fizzles unbalance SWG and it's economy? NO.. will it threaten people learing crafting professions NO. ...
Then why do we have it?
For the same reason there are critical fails in all games. There is a chance for critical fail and also critical successes. Its a great risk vs reward mechanic. Its game play. Without risk versus reward, there is no "game".
There isn't an RPG out there that doesnt include a chance for failure and "crit fails".
I understand the risk vs reward idea overall... but as a tailor I have to ask where is our "critical success"
As a class with nothing to experiment on (currently?) we just get the risk, there is no reward. An amazing sucess is meaningless if there is no bonus that comes along with it.
Yep, all the pain with none of the joy. Let's see, an architect can't fail on a house, in which the resources do not matter, yet we can fail and often do on a Master Item with BioEhancements. Oh yeah, that's balanced!
/sarcasm off
*shakes head*
Thunderheart wrote:
For the same reason there are critical fails in all games. There is a chance for critical fail and also critical successes. Its a great risk vs reward mechanic. Its game play. Without risk versus reward, there is no "game".
There isn't an RPG out there that doesnt include a chance for failure and "crit fails".
I just feel like being a jerk and proving you 100% wrong 
Worlds of Warcraft: Blizzard Entertainment
Quote:
Recipes will work every time. If you collect the proper ingredients to create an item, you don't have to worry about them being wasted due to failures. There's also no need to constantly experiment in World of Warcraft to find a combination of ingredients that will work. A recipe clearly lists what it will allow you to create and what raw materials are required. There's no guesswork (or surfing through dozens of Web sites) involved…
Reference:http://www.blizzard.com/wow/townhall/tradeskills.shtml
Thunderheart wrote:I agree that its hard to find that information. This very important and I believe that it is something that players should be able to discover in-game.
Im working on something with the correspondents so that we might add something to the game to help this process. JustG and Blair said they would consider the idea, but we have to flesh it out a little more.
This bring to mind an excellent idea I've seen kicked around on the boards here before. Every static city has about a billion building that take up space wbut can't be used or even entered by PCs. Why not set some of them up as libraries? In this case, a builidng coul dbe an engineering school with a library full of books that are basicly manuals on how crafting works in detail, like how resource mallability effects the chances for a crit failure or astounding success, etc... I understand that PCs in either EQ or UO could get blank books and fill them full of writings of their adventures or tips or whatever then leave them in libraries for other players to find. I'd be REALLY excited to read the tomes of droid crafting left behind by a former Master DE player filled with tips and tricks of the trade...
Chris
I think there are too many things being factored into crafting now. I would like to see the following:
Initial Combine: based on crafting tool quality and resource quality (and ONLY the resources qualities needed for the schematic--example overall quality and potential energy for organic med components).
Experimentation: based on the crafting station quality and the quality of the resources (again, only using the qualities of the resource that pertain the the schematic in use).
Unless Maleability is part of your schematic--such as armor smiths see in their schematics--it should have no bearing on the outcome of your crafting. Nor should other factors. It is already very hard to find top end ingredients with OQ/PE or OQ/UT or [insert whichever qualities your item requires] over 900 for many resources, it is completely unfair to make us have to seek resouces that have a high rating in any category that the schematic does not use to base our end product's quality on.
This simplification of the crafting system--in terns of less factors to consider, not in terms of rewriting code--would be a big help to us.
TH/Chrysalide--what do you think about this?
Vinaddar
Thunderheart wrote:
Vashner wrote:
Will removing fizzles unbalance SWG and it's economy? NO.. will it threaten people learing crafting professions NO. ...
Then why do we have it?
For the same reason there are critical fails in all games. There is a chance for critical fail and also critical successes. Its a great risk vs reward mechanic. Its game play. Without risk versus reward, there is no "game".
ArteL wrote:
Don't go hiding from us now TH.
You made these statements, now come defend them if thats what you actually believe.
If you don't defend them, then you are saying that what you posted, you either lied about, or wasn't knowledgeable enough, and shouldn't have commented.
The "misunderstanding" with the Droid Invasion...
The "it won't happen" to the City Cap being reached in minutes....it did
The "it causes exploits!" excuse for camps being required to call pets...it doesn't
The "you have critical successes (NOT) so you get failures" argument...we don't
A pattern I sense here.
Audio
I oversimplified my previous post--I meant to include Skill Level of the crafter and complexity of the item for success rate.
However, the player's skill should off-set the schematic's complexity for high end items at master skill level, leaving the quality of tool/crafting station/resources as the key factors. Only on a simple item, where an advanced crafter's skill would improve their success rate, should there be an impact of complexity versus skill.
It would be different if you could try to craft high end items with low skill level, but certifications keep that from happening. (I.e., situations where complexity was higher than your skill would cause your fail rate to go up. But again, that doesn't happen in the current system, so skill should only be a benefit since you'll always have skill equal or superior to your item's complexity.)
Vinaddar