Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Crafting Critical Failure Rates
Perhaps My Crafting Tools and Crafting Stations are the problem.
I have Crafting tools which are supposed to be better i.e. they have a +12 rating or higher on them and the Crafting Staion I use most of the time in both my Droid and My own Prsonal one both have been increased with Experiemntation.
Is it possible that somehow the Number Ratings are High enough that they are breaking the equation just enough to create more negative numbers or in this case a Greater Failure Rate??
Oh well what ever the reason, As a Master Bio-Engineer I fail alot, but then again I cannot really say what exactly my experimentation is doing becasue of the Way the Bio-Engineer Crafting System works, its like I am just creating Random results anywise, and since nothing is shown clearly on the designs and since even if I make something the resulting Creatures Dont match what Template says it should have.
And 4% for your numbers dont seem to match what I get as Critical Failures< as I have said in Previous posts I get more like a 50% chance of a Critical Failure, its almost like a cycle happens. I get a Great Success about 3 times, and then a CRitical Failure.
By the way I noticed That I no longer get Amazing Success' anymore. Whats the deal?
If I have lame skills I can get Amazing Success but when I am a MAster I geat Great Successes and success that literally are like Failures and lots of Critical Failures.
By Chance could someone have meesed up and made Amzing Success' become Critical Failures?
Oh well the Critical Failure thing does concern me Greatly, As I felt it odd that if a Critical Failure Happend and reduced an experimentation line to a Zero, and that if you experimented on that now ZERO line you got Amazing Success' but with nothing happening except for the complexity of the item increasing. I also felt it odd that I no longer got many Amazing Success, and Normal Success would work almost like a Failure.
Oh well at least My chef character can still make things alright, and when the next Patch getsreleased then My Chef will be real cool.
Only my Bio_engineer seems to be the one with problems Crafting things.
If its supposed to make crafting more exciting then it failed - its not exiting - I dont get a sense of risk vs reward - I get a feeling or anger and frustration - the night I spent 10 attempts on 1 ubese bracer is the night I decided to quit armoursmithing and become a tailor. As pointed out many times anything less than great or amazing sucess is trash and gets made in practice mode, destroyed or sold at cost on a bargain bin vendor.
If you want crafting to be exciting may I suggest you sign up for a 10 days no credt card required free trial of rubies of eventide (www.rubiesofeventide.com) and look at their crafting system - its excellent - just in breif I'll describe how it works :
you select your schematic and add your resources and craft an item - it then tells you the quality of the item 0-125 and the chance of succesfully increasing the quality and the % is actually the amount of risk there is - ie if there is a 75% chance of sucess you will fail approx 25 times out of 100.
So you decide whether or not to take the risk and try to improve the item - if you suceed you get XP and DP (DPs are spent to gain skills, XP gains levels), the higher the risk the more XP you get and the more chance of getting an automatic skill gain. Skills go up to 500. You can repeat this as many times as you like up to the item being 125 quality OR you destroy the item - if the item is destroyed then you lose some or all of the materials used in the item.
This system is beautiful! There is risk vs reward, the more chance you have of losing your components the more XP you get and the more chance you'll get a skill increase - also you get XP for every improvement without losing all your components every time - you only lose components when you fail or choose to craft the item. If you keep trying to improve till you fail you get the most XP out of your components.
The best part about it is that the reported risk value is correct unlike here where 0% risk can still lead to a critical fail.
Also the item will always improve if you dont destroy the item, it improives by varying amounts but you can always keep trying.
Anyway - I really URGE you to go back to the drawing board on this one and unless you can come up with one SOLID good reason why we should have critical failures, just get rid of them - we'll all be much happier that way.
IMO the current system has far too many ways to fail (critical, big, complete, moderate fail) not counting the sucesses that arent worth selling.(sucess, good, moderate)
Well,
Out of all the professions I've done, I've never really had cause to complain about crit fails as they were pretty low. Although with architect it panicked me, once I realised I didn't lsoe everything, I calmed down.
But now as a BE, I've made about 40 creatures so far, and failed at least 10 of them, and that means losing tne DNA, so you have to go sample it all over again, which is really very disappointing.
Tonight I made 21 creatures, and 1 of them failed - that's a 50% fail rate tonight, and I see this on other days too. (I know it's a small sample, but the number of times it happens is too much of a co-incidence).
I believe someone ont he BE board posted that out of 50 attempts to create a creature, 45 of them failed! Ouch 
Imaos
Great job at articulating this issue for the Armorsmith profession. The above facts are why I haven't crafted armor in two weeks. The current crafting method is tedious as it is. Adding all the failures feels like a waste of time and effort.
You have a customer waiting who's a) being a pain, b) just in a hurry - critical failure
...combine the 2 - guarenteed fail - every single time.
Last night I was crafting a grand twilek headpiece for a display, I was really low on synthetic cloth and the factory was churning it out as fast as it could. It takes 9 pieces of factory cloth - first attempt critical fail - ok wait 18 more minutes for the factory to make 9 more cloths - critical fail. 36 minutes wasted.
Pffft, right I'm off to steal some kreetle DNA
Veers_Intrepid wrote:
well,
your 4 something % seems to sound low but it is NOT.
pls take the time (well i know u cant) to play a crafter a full week and try to produce alot stuff.
then i see that mostly not even 1 item goes in full production withpout at least 1 fail, in experimet or final combine. i am master of 3 craftings and i fail like crazy it seems always.
and yes some said about matter of the tools, i use a 14.88 tool and a 43.somthing station, plus i am master, how u justify that a production of 1 high lvl product with several subcomponents almost never gores through without 1 fail at least?
also pls keep in mind while comparing that it dont mean much if u craft a normal pistol with like 110 resources in use or amedium housewith over 20k resources. same risk u say? hmm sure seems fair but hurts the architect more then the weaponsmith. plus the fact that a WS gets way higher cpu on his products, but that is another problem.
simply i cant see any justification for such high fail rates as a master with top end tools.
Please supplement this with "please take the time to coordinate over 100 harvestors being rented from 15 people's lots and all the political crap and freebiess you have to deal with in addition to paying them in order to even get enough ore so you can keep up with 40% of the demand for architect deeds!"
Not asking for the moon but I spent 3 million this week on overhead and it's really needling me that I cannot craft 2 BER 13 flora's in a row with all materials averaging 950+.
Fivo Asia
Lothario_Gray wrote:
LadyGrey:
If you are selling a harvester that requires 18000 units of metal in it for 3000 credits, there is something severly wrong with the economy on your server. I would start selling the high ends for about 20k and the low ends for about 10k. That would be more reasonable, and yes I would pay 10k for a BER3.
Never fails. We try to have a polite discussion and get a troll. Your response shows a total lack of any knowledge of the archtitecture profession. Please explain to me why you would pay 10k for a ber 3 heavy that cost 10 times as much as a ber 4 personal to run?
In fact, don't. Please research your comments before posting distractions.
Fivo Asia
I have a GREAT .. SIMPLE... IDEA>.
Make it ZERO PERCENT FIZZLES..
1. Customer Happy.
2. Dev.. well who cares they don't pay to play .. but they are semi happy because there are NO MORE COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE TOPIC and refer to point (1).
There... I solved your problem on this topic.....
Your welcome.. that one was free.
Will removing fizzles unbalance SWG and it's economy? NO.. will it threaten people learing crafting professions NO. ...
Then why do we have it? The only think I can see it doing is making your customer base more agressive and upset. Because it wastes time and luck in there real lifes. It only delivers a bad emotion to the customer.
If I choose to hunt, I can choose the difficulty of the mission to a certain extent, I can choose whether or not to take the best stims and wear armour etc.
That is risk vs reward, I risk my life, equipment etc to get a better reward of higher XP, better mission payout, etc and I choose how much risk I want. If I so chose to I could level up purely on kreetles and womp rats at no risk to myself or equipment.
If I craft an item, I have a 1 in 20 chance of critically failing (according to your numbers) - this is something I have no control over - I dont risk more for better reward.
As for experimentation the resported risk does not reflect the actual risk - otherwise it would be impossible to fail with 0% risk. This is a major problem, as is the fact that anything less than a great or amazing sucess might as well go on the scrap heap.
To have a sucessful risk/reward system - there needs to be a way to set your own risk and reward.
Maybe you should get more XP for making a better item, the better the item the more XP - this would also require the risk % to be accurate - else the whole thing is meaninglyless - and there are FAR too many 'fails'.
The risk vs reward system does not work if we have no control over the outcome - Even if I craft an item and adjust my experiment points so the risk is 0% I still have a completely random chance of what happens next - NO risk should mean NO risk, if there is 0% risk then I should get a great success guarenteed - with the possibility of an amazing success.
This is not the case and failures still occur with 'no risk'
So in terms of 'game play' the system is broken.