CUEmu - Thread Posts

Dracass

Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:40 am

Student Jedi: "Master, I believe I am now ready to learn how to defend myself. Would you teach me in the art of defense?"

Master Jedi: "The secret to being a Jedi is not by defense, but by superior attacks. You need not to learn such things."

Student Jedi: " But Master, how I am to fight a Sith, or for that matter a wielder of any sword effectively?"

Master Jedi: "I grow tired of this. Like I said, superior attacks. For defense, do what I've done; be a man and take the hits. Take that damage, it will make you stronger. Be the Rocky of Boxing. Did you do your homework of watching the Rocky series like I assigned?"

Student Jedi: "Yes Master, I did. I saw how he took the blows to wear out his opponent."

Master Jedi: "Exactly my point. Don't evade or block those attacks. Take the hits."

...

Student Jedi: "Master, then why have I learned to defend myself effectively against those with blasters?"

Master Jedi: "My student, blasters are unjust and unfair weapons. The bring no honor to fighting. Therefore, you must do what is right to ensure victory."

...

Student Jedi: "Master, so tell me again why we don't learn how to defend against melee attacks to ensure victory again?"

Sign off,
Dracass The'Heartless

KyleKnox

Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:42 am

#249

Thunderheart wrote:

13. Robes of all levels should have *some* sort of armor resists. Padawan who are just starting out in the world could use a Robe with some resists. Higher level Jedi Robes should have +resists to certain things like poison/fire/etc.

The Jedi Development team is against balancing these combat features with the robes. We will work to balance resists to poisons/fire/etc. in a different manner and report back to you.

27. Overall skill point requirements need to either be reduced or one tree collapsed.

Having to spend 24 skill points in force sensitive skills that do NOTHING for Jedi and having all skill boxes RAISED in skill cost is a very bad combo.

8,6,4,2 is simply too restrictive. We have jedi coming from a system where you can have all powers, to a system where you can not possibly have even the most basic powers and be viable.

That's just not "fun." This revamp is about what is fun, as much as what is good for the game as a whole.

We aren't looking for overpowered here, but we would like to be able to have viable templates and still have enough points to learn some of the necessities such as Meditate and Force run.

Please lower the skill requirements to 7,5,3,1 which will let Jedi master 2 trees and achieve 4444 in another. This is hardly overpowered, will still allow for great diversification between Jedi, and will discourage dabblers. Please do us this one favor, it is not asking too much.

Absolutely the revamp is about fun. It's also about adding depth and choice to the experience of being a Jedi. Adding additional skill points or reducing the skill costs just further homogenizes Jedi making them all have the same basic abilities. That is completely counter to one of the major goals of this rebalance.

The revamp IS NOT ABOUT FUN. Any jedi knows this. Its about weakening our class. YOU CANT HAVE DEPTH when you dont have skill points.

These two answers really show a huge insensitivty to logic and your player base. Both revolve around lies told to the community about skill box conversion and robes - lies that are still in the jedi archives as "official" information. Lets follow logic a while, shall we....from another post....

OK - the armour/robe issue and the skill point issue are IMO the two biggest problems this revamp has CAUSED - thats right - they are issues that did not exist before in the current system. However both of these problems can be solved with ONE action.

Background

1) We went from having access to three full trees of skills, which contained all of the jedi skills, to 2.5 trees that contained half of the jedi skills. This leaves considerable skill gaps in any template. Consider further, that 2 branches of LS are mandatory, 4004 healing is mandatory, and 2 lines in enhance (Armour/Run)are mandatory. Following the established 2.5 mold to use all skill points brings you to Master LS, Master Enhance, 4004 heal, arguably what will be the most common and common sense template barring further changes.

2) We were promised Armour functionality in Robes. This has been changed. EVERY melee profession has access to armour, and even wookies will now have better protection. Furthermore, even if a jedi did burn skill points fully in the defense tree, then these defenses are still inferior to any melee temploiter now on live. And they are NO substitute for the 90% composite ans PSG's that are common on live now. Force armour, while blocking a good amount of damage, exhausts your forcepool in a few minutes or less, more people ganking you, faster you lose power - so when you need it teh most teh armour goes away the fastest - along with your ability to use any other powers as well.....not really optimal

3) WE hear over and over about the combat Balance. This is CLEARLY months away - 3 or more. And frankly Im not interested in having to nerf other professions in order for mine to be viable. But that is the direction the devs are headed. Seems common sense to me NOT TO LEAVE us hanging inthe interim. We need to have an interim level of protection EQUIVALENT with whats on live now. NERF us with EVERYONE ELSE later. In the meantime, the Knight trials (kill an NS ELDER, Kill a GIANT KRAYT, etc. are IMPOSSIBLE for a single jedi knight wannabe to do. Impossible. Today on tc2 i lasted about two minutes against an NS ELDER before force armour completely depleted my force pool. Regular armour or protection in robes fixes this problem. But we have been told these are not desirable for teh devs regardless of how necessary they are for us.

4) My proposal - and that of others - is to roll at LEAST jedi toughness into the other trees. Attach it to the force power number - this makes total SENSE - as a jedi comes more powerful in the force, the resiliency he gains from that connection should increase. Also, this guarrantees that as a jedi advances, GIVING UP MUNDANE skills, like fencer and TKM, he gains INNATE defenses to compensate for it. And creates a simple formula - higher the jedi, tougher the jedi. Im not saying what level of toughnesss should be the end point - again it should be in line with armour use and defenses of other STRONG melee templates...and can be nerfed when they are nerfed if deemed necessary.

5) Second part - saber block should be lowered, and given dual melee and ranged effectiveness in blocking. Sorry but anyone with ANY martial arts experience KNOWS that a bullet (laser blast) is much tougher to block than a fist or foot or say staff/sword, etc....this is just plain common sense. This makes ranged profs more effective against us (BH's) and assuming the states going through the block bug is fixed, we will be better off too. I bleiev it is 85 now at master LS - it could be reduced to 70 or 75 - a master LS blocking 3/4 of attacks should be reasonalbee and in line with other strong melee templates...Again assuming they will be nerfed soon. Also with robes we are extremely limited in tape use and armour attachment use COMPARED TO EVERY OTHER CLASS. There is a reason they can go for 10s of millions, they really give a huge advantage...but not to us now....

7) Now you can do away with ranged def (my 4444 doesnt have it now and doesnt need it), and do away with the gutted defense tree. Melee defense can also go away because of the new melee block. State defenses are limited at +65, eventually youll get stuck when specials are constatnyl spammed. And both the ENHANCE tree and HEAL tree has counters against states....Same with force defense. There are other protections in the other trees.

8) What does this all accomplish? SILENCES the skill point and armour issues, assuming everthing is fairly balanced....again we are only asking for defenses in line with STRONG melee templates. If you have ever PvP'd with a jedi - and high level jedi will be forced to PvP in the FRS, then you KNOW you get ganked - jedi are always the first target - multiple cm's, fencer, flame dot's, mind fire, spider venom poisons, acklay batons, geo blasters, all with your name written all over them. And with essentially placing the "BOUNTY" of a high FRS point payoff on high jedi, you can be GUARRANTEED that opposing faction jedi and their minions will concentrate all tehir firepower on you FIRST.

9) What I propose IS NOT IMBALANCED. My 40 million credit LS still does less damage than a TKA. Our defenses will not be superior, overrall, than any current FOTM melee temploiter. And it prevents the class we have all worked so hard for from being gutted. Skill wise and defense wise. We know devs want us weaker. But a jedi toon that has 100x the effort of a mundane toon DESERVES more than a 1.0 or 1.2 factor of power increase. I believe this proposal would put us in the 2x range against strong melee PvPers, especially if saber damage stays where it is at. And reduce our defense against ranged. If a jedi toon that takes 3 months to unlock and 6 or more months to level to the point of FRS is easily killed by one character, then the game just becomes a joke. This is irrefutable. Killing a high level jedi should be AN ACCOMPLISHMENT. People dont want to see jedi, the central figures in the starwars saga we all love, reduced to lambs led to a slaughter.

I want this revamp to work. I want there to be something in this revamp for jedi. I want to be able to have my hard work, and it is work, FAIRLY represented. Life isnt fair, but maybe that is why we like our games and entertainment to be - its a pleasant change. Right now this revamp is very unfair from the perspective of a 4444 guardian. Please help. You promised us a box for box conversion - which is still posted as official information in the archives. Also we were promised protection, replacing armour protection, in robes - this is still posted as official information in the archives as well. Now for one reason, devs want us weaker, these promises have been or are being broken. This ruins your credibility and insults your customers. Restore our faith, please.

Dyvim Storm - Eclipse
PrePatch9 4444 Guardian
Force Master

Dracass

Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:46 am

#250

Another Jedi/Sith Rule of Thumb:

- To fight effectively, do not become a fully pledge Jedi/Sith.

Learn the arts of thy mortal enemy. Become the enemy. Learn the balance of the Jedi/Sith and Teras Kasi and become the blending of the two.

Sign off,
Dracass The'Heartless

Dracass

Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:02 am

#251

Jedi #1: "Ready to duel?"

Jedi #2: "Must we? This is really going to hurt."

Jedi #1: "Yes, we must learn to fight effectively."

Jedi #2: "But you know we can't block worth a damn."

Jedi #1: "Yes, I'm aware of that. But we must practice."

Jedi #2: "I'm really not in the mood to getting sliced and diced by your saber again."

Jedi #1: "Oh shut up and fight."

Jedi #2: "No, Am not going to fight with sabers. How about one of ususes a pistol and we practice that way?"

Jedi #1: "That's boring. Its not the same as getting sliced by a saber."

Jedi #2: "You must like pain."

Jedi #1: "Oh man, I love pain. That's why I became a Jedi."

Sign off,
Dracass The'Heartless

Ehecu

Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:22 am

#252

jewboywa wrote:
Thunderheart wrote:
21. Jedi cannot block melee attacks....at all. This is unacceptable.
Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range. This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.
Maybe its just me but this doesnt make any sense at all.. We are a Melee class that hates to fight melee?? Why on earth did we develope a lightsaber then? Wouldnt it have been better to develop a blaster rifle or something?
Sorry for the sarcasm but this just seems crazy to me..

How do you block a sword with a burst of energy? Lightsabers were developed to deflect energy bolts because blasters were readily available and you didn't need to be an expert or specialist to use 'em (skilled pistoleers existed, such as Han Solo, but it wasn't a requirement to spend years learning to use it). The whole galaxy used 'em, including the military, thus why the lightsaber was built to defend against that type of attack. Also, it pierced the skin of most animals, so they could defend themselves in the wild if necessary.

Message Edited by Ehecu on 06-24-2004 11:23 AM

Ehecu
Rebel Alliance
Warrant Officer Second Class

"Yes I know my enemies, they're the teachers who taught me to fight me."

Khelly

Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:56 am

#253

I know this is coming abit late, but so far I have not seen anyone bring up this issue I wish to address/enquire. This issue I am refering to is the known canon ability for lightsabers to damage or destroy things they are directed against, namely opponents weaponry. Luke is seen in multiple scenes hacking pikes, blaster pistols, speederbikes, AT-AT's, etc he uses it like a can opener or sword as needed. So I suggest that instead of giving jedi the ability to block melee attacks (the only attacks Luke ever blocked were blaster shots, and other lightsabers) but to give jedi the ability to inflict damage on opponents weapons whom are in melee with them. yes the melee guy may beat the jedi, but is the melee willing to have his power hammer sliced in two? I think this is a good solution and stays within sw parameters for lightsabers.

Klytus..I'm bored...What plaything have you for me today?

Achaniel

Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:33 pm

#254

AHHH! are all of you posters on crack. This is a game and like all games if it is to easy to win it isn't fun. Jedi shouldn't equal god mode. It is a character class like all the others. the Devs take away powers and you **edit**, but how fun would it be if everyone eventualy became jedis and we all had the same powers and configurations. It would be like playing a game with everyone using cheats. Being a jedi should not automatically make you a god no more than being a wizard in EQ. Jedi in episode 2 were killed easily enough by droids and jango fett so why should they be uber or deserve more consideration than any other class. while you can't have star wars without jedi it is unfortunate that a time frame was chosen for this game in which in the larger sence all the outcomes have been predetermined and the possibilliy of jedis are also constrained as they should not exist during this time. In closing, I believe jedi should be just another character class in its genisis and should not util it's highest levels assend above that of others.

swgsoul

Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:13 pm

#255

jewboywa wrote:

Thunderheart wrote:

21. Jedi cannot block melee attacks....at all. This is unacceptable.

Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range. This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.

Maybe its just me but this doesnt make any sense at all.. We are a Melee class that hates to fight melee?? Why on earth did we develope a lightsaber then? Wouldnt it have been better to develop a blaster rifle or something?

Sorry for the sarcasm but this just seems crazy to me..

How do you block a sword with a burst of energy? Lightsabers were developed to deflect energy bolts because blasters were readily available and you didn't need to be an expert or specialist to use 'em (skilled pistoleers existed, such as Han Solo, but it wasn't a requirement to spend years learning to use it). The whole galaxy used 'em, including the military, thus why the lightsaber was built to defend against that type of attack. Also, it pierced the skin of most animals, so they could defend themselves in the wild if necessary.

ok then explain how Qui Gon Jinn can shove his lightsaber through a 12" thick metal door and we can't even "block" or cut the blade of a sword, also made of weaker metal?

SoulMJ - undesided
Frost'cold - Jedi Elder

(gnn[[[[[[[[[[~~]nnn~~WX9ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)

sabercrystal

Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:26 pm

#256

I have an idea for the strongest jedi knight. I told the guys at Fan Fest and no one seemed to listen (well Q liked the idea, but the guys he told me to tell didnt listen). Ok, for the top Jedi Knight (light and dark), they must go through a dungeon or something to get CortosisArmor (for those who dont know, Cortosis is semi-saber-resistant material and VERY rare). or at least the schematic for it and only THEY could craft it. But then, as soon as they lost thier position, they would lose the armor (and the schematic), and the next strongest jedi would have to. and possibly at the end the light and dark would have to fight for it.

Tai'xar Goldenlight (Scylla and Radiant)

GuanYing

Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:49 pm

#257

Ehecu wrote:

jewboywa wrote:

Thunderheart wrote:

21. Jedi cannot block melee attacks....at all. This is unacceptable.

Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range. This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.

Maybe its just me but this doesnt make any sense at all.. We are a Melee class that hates to fight melee?? Why on earth did we develope a lightsaber then? Wouldnt it have been better to develop a blaster rifle or something?

Sorry for the sarcasm but this just seems crazy to me..

How do you block a sword with a burst of energy? Lightsabers were developed to deflect energy bolts because blasters were readily available and you didn't need to be an expert or specialist to use 'em (skilled pistoleers existed, such as Han Solo, but it wasn't a requirement to spend years learning to use it). The whole galaxy used 'em, including the military, thus why the lightsaber was built to defend against that type of attack. Also, it pierced the skin of most animals, so they could defend themselves in the wild if necessary.

Message Edited by Ehecu on 06-24-2004 11:23 AM

How to block a sword with a blade of energy? How about you put the beam in the path of the sword's blade? Like you might use to parry as if you were weilding another sword? Like when you see the saber vs saber fights in the movies... The only difference would be a regular sword should get cut in half by the lightsaber...

Concussion1971B

Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:41 pm

#258

21. Jedi cannot block melee attacks....at all. This is unacceptable.

Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range.This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.

How is it we can block something traveling at nearly the speed of light yet we cannot block some guy standing 2 feet in front of us?

This makes absolutly no sence to me at all. We are holding a saber that can slice through solid steel or anything for the most part but when a bare fisted TKM swings at us we cannot stop the damage. I am starting to wonder if you Devs have even seen Star Wars.

Bluree

Dark Jedi Enforcer (Rank 2)

BioTech® Foods for the Galaxie!

(Corellia 676, -5212) (Dantooine -1675, -2740)

EvoBeck

Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:55 pm

#259

Please look into making all sabers have the same damage output, or make the speed penalties larger between sabers.

Currently we can all use sabers at max speed it seems, so the higher damage polearm sabers end up far superior in Jedi vs Jedi pvp.

My suggestion is to make them have the same damage/speed capabilities, and let people choose different sabers solely on the specials given by them.

Beck - Bloodfin

EvoBeck

Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:04 pm

#260

Please look into the balance of the Force Armor 2 skill. I believe it was a good decision to move this to the enhancement tree, however it still is unbalanced in jedi vs jedi pvp. It is extremely hard to hit a Jedi that has master saber and force armor 2, and for people without the same template there is almost no way to outdamage/outlast them. On the other hand, people with the same template end up in stalemates.

A few options would be:

To not allow it to work against lightsabers (same as jedi toughness for defenders). Although a balancing method, it is not the ideal solution.

-or-

Raise the force cost use in pvp only. Since pvp damage is greatly reduced, the cost of using Force Armor 2 is also reduced compared to when using it in PVE. What happens is that it is almost a passive skill and does not use significant force. Generally users can maintain a full force pool even when using the armor and saber specials combo. In PVE against NS elders, etc. its force drain is evident and more realistic. If the force cost use per hit was doubled in pvp situations, it would make it much more of a tactic type skill and would keep that templates force cost drain in line with say a healer or force power user.

Beck - Bloodfin

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