Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-17 Star Wars Galaxies Combat Profession Mix and Match
The entire problem is trying to pigeonhole everyone. AC was nice because you could mix and match any skills you wished, to the limits of your skill points. That way everyone was just slightly different.
The method of sticking to progression trees might make it simpler to program, but it makes for a very vanilla kind of game with everyone choosing one or two main professions, as you have little choice in what you can do.
People whine that if there were more points, everyone would be a superman, well, folks, that is the entire point of any RPG. Everyone wants to be a cut above the everyday. Those tht work hardest achieve it earliest. SWG is a cookie cutter game that resembles a FPS far more than any RPG.
In a true RPG, when the character is done, the game is over, hence playing AC for over 3yrs and still only being 84/126. AC2 died largely because you were finished in 3 months (max) and the game was over. Pretty much the same in SWG, that is the reason they began the 'Mr. Potatohead' game of how many professions can you grind as fast as you can. This appeals to a totally different crowd than RPGers. FPSers like the making of the character, trying it and doing something totally different. RPGers like to mold thier characters over long periods of time, and yes, the best characters, in the long term, are the hybrids. Single focus characters are typically better faster, but fall behind in the long term.
An alternate advancement system, like EQ, would solve many of your balance issues.
Empower the people that are committed to grinding, mixing, and matching combat professions.
There is no other way to seperate hardcore from recreationalpvpers in this game.
You also need PvP correspondents, not just Profession based correspondents.
I can take on most porfessions and beat them in a head up fight. Yet, my profession mix is not clearly defined by your current system.
And yet, I represent a large number of players within SWG.
A few ideas...
* Make Master boxes worth more, as was said earlier, and harder to get (which may have also been said seperately). Apprentice Points are great, but the system is too easy to cheat. Utilize a daily cap on app. pt. gains. (maybe 50/day or 100/day).
* Create a general experience category. Training ppl after you've reached your cap, or gaining exp after an xp cap has been hit (until you train again, or after mastery) gains you "general experience" Allow these points to be converted by slicers to other professions, or traded via quests for certain rare gifts.
* Make "novice" boxes more difficult to gain outside of base skills. BH for example, the trainer should make you prove your worth before allowing you to train. Something along those lines.
A couple ways to prevent this would be to make the novice box in elite skills cost more SP (and then the master box would be less in order to compensate).
Also, make the master boxes more attractive. Lessen the bonuses you get from the boxes in a specific line of a profession and then make the difference up in the master box, so it equals the same in the long run.
There exists the potential for a large variety of characters that can perform a range of tasks.
Which is only useful if there are meaning ful things for each of the characters to do, not just in a few quests, but in everday playing.
There seems to be very little reward for mastering professions. Having looked at the benefits the system feels weighted towards dabblers rather than those who prefer to specialise. It's very easy for a dabbler (who in effect is a "Jack of all Trades") to be more combat proficient that a specialist.
The rewards are there, but the classes are improperly balanced so many do not perform as they should. In reality a 'jack-of-all-trades' should be a better all around character. The specialists would only be better in thos situations that need a specific skill set. The greatest heros of lore are not single dimension characters. This is what makes RPGs last is the fact that you have many things to master.
Obviously there is the problem of uber templates too.
No matter how well balanced you make a game there will always be 'uber' templates, whether real or percieved. All you can do is try and limit how big a disparity there is from top to bottom.
I think that has been said before but here goes. Rather thangenericskills,they should be specific to a class. For example learning a ranged weapon profession would give you ranged defense skills whereas melee would give you melee defense skills.In this case someone who is Rifle/Pistols would have better ranged defense than someone who is Rifle/TKM - but would have less (or no) melee defense. Both combos have their weakness and strength now.
This is fine if all the professions work as they should, which they don't in SWG. For example, if a range weapon user is only to have range defense, then he/she has to have faith that the thier weapons will be effective enough to protect them from the melees. Does no good if the melee guy can run over to you from 64m away and then proceed to beat you to death, while your range weapons do nothing. Otherwise, EVERYONE needs to start in hand to hand, then take spec weapons. for which we need more skill points.
In the above example the Rifle/TKM would be a more rounded character whereas Rifle/Pistols would be specialist (just like Fencer/TKM).
Personally, Pistols/rifles/carbines are all the same as far as what they do. The skills to use them are so similar they don't really need to be seperate classes. Instead, one novice profession class should be 'self-defense'. Any whowish to be combat class should have to have this class. Specialized melee classes then go on to offensive skills.While others go and dodifferent weapons specializations. To imagine any range userhas 0 melee defense is retarded.
I also love the idea that someone suggested in having each branch represent a different aspect (i.e. accuracy, speed, damage and defense). This allows some to be more defensive, others to be all out power - in which case again it's all about strengths and weaknesses.
This could work.
can't attack the same HAM pool which makes us less effective. All attacks should target Health. Keep using specials and healing to Action and Mind. It makes no sense that to fire your weapon should cost health, but perfect sense that it's an action your performing that may require a level of concentration.
Yes, but a lot less than now. No reason you should concentrate yourself to the verge of unconciousness in a 30 sec fight. HAM costs are one of the downsides of Melee classes to. Range weapons take considerably less exertion to use than a sword, or axe. Personally, I don't think swords and axes have any place in the era that SWG is in at all.
Finally, add certs to armour too. Better armour should only be available to certain profession levels. It doesn't make sense that a Master Artisan should be able to equip (or maybe equip it as effectively)the same armour as a Master Marksman or Master Brawler.
This, I don't agree with. It take no skill to put on a suit of armor. It only takes the strength, agility and reflexes to use. However, I do feel that armor usage could be one of the skills learned in basic self defense, with addittional skill in each spec prfoession. Not to limit who can wear what, but to set how effective you will be in any particular armor. So yes, a newbie can wear full composite, but he/she is not going to get full benefit from it.
Perhaps an alternate solution would be to add Encumberance mods to skill trees. Combat professions would then benefit from lower encumberance than non-combat classes. By doing this it would allow non-combat classes to wear the armour for protection and to enable them to escape - but not fight effectively
I would make it more of a skill modifier. Have some boxes in the novice classes, with more in the spec professions that give increased skill to the user for armor. The novice ones are just armor usage in general, and the specs would pick an armor type that is best suited to that profession. ie composite would NOT be good for TK's as it is too bulky and movement limiting, so it would seriously cut into the effectiveness of the TK, but it defends well against the TK. Range users, on the other hand, don't need to move as freely at range, so comp could be a good choice. However, if aTK gets within melee range, then the melee defense skills, of the wearer, will be somewhat negated by the bulky armor. Perhaps Tantel would become the TK armor of choice, with goods defenses against range weapons, but not limiting to TK moves. Ubese, perhaps good for rangers, as it is quiet, and good against kinetic, or whatever. Not saying anyone couldn't choose whatever they want to use...
yuso wrote:
Fix combat medic or give us all enough extra points just to grind doc and we could not go over for any other profession. Either one will work for me. Cant pvp anymore. All the exploiters/stackers went cm. They take out a group of 40 with one disease or poison. If the people are not incaped, they are unable to continue.
/agree
a rifleman is a better AT-ST killer than a commando, and thats due to range and concealshot
LOL, so you are telling me a T-21 rifle, should be better at taking out an AT-ST (A Heavily Armored Battle Vehicle) than a Commando with Grenades, a Flamethrower and a weapon that shoots ROCKETS??...Dude wake up...a T-21 should be worthless, in reality, against an AT-ST...and you say because of range and concealshot...LOL, um no...an AT-ST has more range than you (or should, again Reality), more firepower than you, and can hit a broader area than you...causing more damage..than you...Rifleman in game are overbalanced as it is with a speed of 1.0, and a High damage special...and you want MORE power for them...and you don't think that in this advanced society, that they can't detect life and heat signatures? oh wait, they can so conceal shot is worthless, but in game uber,...wake up...
CM should be put under wraps, blunt the damage, or make them use more skillpoints to master...you want uber damage, pay uber skillpoints.
Rifleman decrease damage, or decrease speed. one or the other not both.
Mix and match is nice, Allows us to be more unique. As it has been said, its weakness is the l33t SP34k people out there wanting the uber template...naturally they stack the def mods of specific profs...sad...
/edit
should say "beginner level actions should have less drain on beginner action/mind pools.
sorry.