Development Cycle Archive

Thread: I'm out of my cave!

can-i-car
Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:55 am
#248


I haven't ready every post but i feel that my 2 cents are worth putting here from my perspective:


Two Cents:

Hi all i've been playing the game since early 2003 on the Bloodfin server, the time when Jedi were 'hidden' where grinding wasn't as frequent, why wasn't grinding frequent?


Because at Christmas you made a mistake a very fatal one at that by giving everyone Holocrons this sparked a trigger in everyones mind "i must grind for jedi, i have used my holocron and it said to master proffesion title here i remember when holocrons were worth alot, now you can't even loot them, the constant updates and 'fixes' just introduce new bug's to the game, take a look at the chat tabs, the new planet and auctions tabs caused so much damage to the community because players could not contact each other.


finally tailor got fixed with the 'displaying' of the necklaces, how long did it take you to fix that? since BETA, if you concentrated on what the consumer wants instead of add-ons and the Jedi proffesion maybe you would have alot more customers playing the game than terminating their accouts.


I noticed something the other day whilst connecting to the galaxy


Publish 9.2 - increased spawn rate for the Squill Cave

Isn't this where Jedi gather?

isn't this where Jedi get back the 200k exp after getting killed by a BH?


It seems that as of late everything is tailored to the Jedi Profession, when you should be fixing proffesions such as:

Smuggler

Creature Handler

Pistoller

Ranger

Politican

Squad Leader

Commando

Every other broken profession


You are causing yourself to do more work to the game by introducing more and more content leaving the old content to get pushed further down the 'to do list'.


sure your out of your cave, but does that really change the rate of which we are going to get things sorted on Star Wars Galaxies? i personally don't think so, i understand that you are all busy working on JTL but why not just do as you all promised and release the Combad Balance already? i think i know why because if you release the combad balance you already know that it would be full of bugs, CSR's would get enough tickets to handle, which would push back the JTLs release date.


If JTLS isn't any good you will lose a hell of a lot of players and fans,


Why would you want a game over-run by jedi?

Are jedi going to have a certain role in JTLS?


without every other profession but Jedi you wouldn't have a game IMO

so listen to us and sort the original game out for the love of god.


Message Edited by can-i-car on 08-06-2004 03:10 AM




In-Game Name: nevaeh
Server: Europe-Chimaera
Professions Mastered:
Artisan | Architect | Tailor | Merchant | Medic | Doctor | Scout | Brawler | Teras Kasi | Swordsman |

JacobKell
Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:09 am
#249






can-i-car wrote:


It seems that as of late everything is tailored to the Jedi Profession, when you should be fixing proffesions such as:

Creature Handler

Pistoller

Ranger

Politican

Squad Leader

Commando








Ahem! Please insert the word Smuggler at the top of that list. Yes i am biased because i am one but it is without a doubt the most useless broken profession in the game and its been that way since beta!



RIP SWG
Who wants my stuff?
ClarkCharon
Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:33 am
#250






DirtyBeast wrote:

Having been a software engineer for 10 years I can truly understand the delay of the combat revamp. While I am as disappointed as anyone, I'd like to see it done properly and not rushed to live. I wish more people understood that sometimes in software development, you don't have the luxury of simply "fixing" random features as you see fit. Sometimes features are built on top of other features or with the assumption that certain conditions in the environment are static. Oftentimes when trying to "fix" something, you can get yourself into a heap of trouble by breaking other things in the process. I would imagine in a game as complex as Galaxies that this fact is amplified. There are other times that you may think you can make a change easily, and even promise that change to the end-users, then upon further investigation it becomes clear that you are going to affect other things and it'll take longer. Then comes the outrage and disappointment. I believe the devs on this game have done a good job so far. I am willing to bet they are probably more critical of themselves than anyone on this board will ever be.





OMG! What company do you work for? I've been in software development for 20+ years. Delays are unacceptable. You give the customer what you promised at the time you promsed. A properly run project will come in on time on budget and be top quality. Its developers like you that give our company a *good* name.








"The Devs hate fun"
ClarkCharon
Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:46 am
#251

Why the **** can't Sony explain why they made the decissions they did. And why can't they tell us before the publishes. Like "we are going to put in 2 Jedi publishes before fixing other professionsbecause ________." Or, "we are going to delay the combat revamp because we think JTL _________." Their silence and lack of honesty is alienating the community,





"The Devs hate fun"
DirtyBeast
Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:45 am
#252

OMG! What company do you work for? I've been in software development for 20+ years. Delays are unacceptable. You give the customer what you promised at the time you promsed. A properly run project will come in on time on budget and be top quality. Its developers like you that give our company a *good* name.

-----------------------------------------


With 20+ years experience I'd expect you to be more able to comprehend my post. Delays are unacceptable yet sometimes inevitable, you know this. Of course the goal is to deliver on time. And don't presume to *know* about "developers like me" from atop your fictional high horse. If you want to play that game then it sounds to me like you are one of the ones responsible for generating crap code and cutting corners to appear as though you've made an accomplishment on time. Unfortunately the customers are happy up front but soon realize they have an unmaintainablepiece of #$%&. Fun isn't it? Acting all high and mighty from behind a keyboard? Whatever. I hope your 20+ years will detect the sarcasm in all ofthat. Go ahead and 1-star me like a 13-year old, you know you wanna.


Anyway, I wasn't trying to make excuses for the devs of this game. I was simply trying to respond to so many posts around the board where people matter-of-factly say to fix this, or fix that, and was trying to explain that sometimes it doesn't work like that. Surely something at SoE was terribly mismanaged for things to reach the point they are at. Still, asa programmer you have to at least be somewhat appreciative for what has been accomplished in the game, even though it has a long way to go. I, like everyone else, hope they do a better job in the future.
PhoenixOrion
Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:15 am
#253


Shug_Ninx wrote:

I'd also point out that we also try to get feedback from "non-forum posters", including players who never hit the forums, fans of the films who are intrigued by Star Wars Galaxies but aren't playing it yet, and even people who have left the community. At the end of the day, we want to know what current players like and dislike about the game so we can build on our strengths and correct our weaknesses. The forums are often the best place for the latter (but that's certainly NOT all they are used for), but when we want to know what people like about the game, we often have to solicit that information and look beyond the forums.


So you guys are actually reading say - the Smuggler Forum to see that we are STILL waiting on answers? Even minor fixes we should be getting before a revamp...?



Phoenix Orion - Master Smuggler, Master Teras-Kasi, Scoundrel, Rogue & Entrepreneur
Owner, Operator
- Orion Transport Company (
-3579,4347), outside Theed, Naboo - Clamps, Knives, AUK's, WUk's & Spice!
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(Known Rebel Terrorists and people who contact Zarrn Orion for Smuggler Services are automatically Blacklisted.)


Dracass
Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:15 am
#254


Ok ye two developers, Dirtybeast and ClarkCharon, I have info fer ye both incase ye didn't read it (this ain't a flame to either one, just providin' some info).


Shug_Ninx:

Quote

For example all of the designers code in that they write game scripts. We'd like to be getting more changes in but testing takes a fair amount of work given the complexity of SWG. Also, it's not simply an issue of adding more programmers - we need the *right* peopleworking on the right systems. In somways, this is alsolikeworking on a carengine - you can only get so many peopleunder the hood before they start getting in each other's way.



I just want to point out that the Developer's aren't doin' hard codin', but codin' in scripts and usin' tools.

The problems are appearently with testin' and management.



Do keep in mind that there was no logical testin' done to this game system. (IE: A computer ain't needed to figure out that someone with a high dodge and high defenses will never get hit. Just plug in the numbers and then see the final percentage result. The Pistoleer/Fencer/TK template wasn't a codin' bug, but somethin' that could have easily been dealt with when designin' and testin' the game on paper... [was that ever done?]).




If ye haven't already, take a look at the three new job opportunities in the Annoucement Section. I think ye will agree that the requirements at rather low (+3 yrs C++ fer a Senior position?)... makes ye wonder at what theskillsets are of the current developers, eh.



Sign off,
Dracass The'Heartless
Dracass
Fri Aug 06, 2004 10:33 am
#255






ClarkCharon wrote:

Why the **** can't Sony explain why they made the decissions they did. And why can't they tell us before the publishes.


...


Their silence and lack of honesty is alienating the community



Kharrissa wrote:

Yes. And they know that it is, so why are they doing it?





That's classic SOE policy. Basically its a priviledge to play this game or so its seem to be they way they think.



Why can't they tell us before the publishes?


Good question. Hopefully fer the players that stay, this will now change due to the last incidents. The Dev's now actually appear to be makin' changes to this as they are now postin' what the changes are (thou there are still goin' to be silent changes). I do hope that these changes will be posted in detail as to what they do, instead of this, "A hard cap on defenses." Ok, so what's the cap level? And what defenses are effected? (And it took two days latter fer the Dev's to tell people what specifically was done... and it was done so by an on-line chat session, never posted on the forums, 'cept fer Thunderheart's guess).


And they know that it is, so why are they doing it?

Its a priviledge to play the game. Everyone should honored fer just bein' allowed to play this premium game.



Sign off,
Dracass The'Heartless
CerionSkydreamer
Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:43 pm
#256


Shug_Ninx wrote:

This was in no way intended as a slight against the community, or even those community members who posted "negative" comments or sent IGNPC negative letters about the combat revamp timing. I was (poorly) trying to articulate a common phenomenon that basically boils down to "happy community members are generally quiet community members." This has been true for us since launch.

I could have probably answered the question better with something like: "The players who are happy with everything aren't necessarily motivated to send you letters or post negative comments on the forums. Those players who are unhappy with something are far more motivated to let us know about it so that we can address the issues."

I could have also reiterated a point I made in my Game Informer interview by adding something like: "And even though they are often perceived as a 'vocal minority,' these players come from the core of our community, so we take everything they say very seriously because they have such influence and, in some ways, understand specific elements of the game better than we do. We receive thousands of constructive posts from these folks."

Then, I could have ended with: "And, just to show that there are always two sides to every issue, we almost always have community members who do take the time to post to the forums in open support of our direction."

I'd also point out that we also try to get feedback from "non-forum posters", including players who never hit the forums, fans of the films who are intrigued by Star Wars Galaxies but aren't playing it yet, and even people who have left the community. At the end of the day, we want to know what current players like and dislike about the game so we can build on our strengths and correct our weaknesses. The forums are often the best place for the latter (but that's certainly NOT all they are used for), but when we want to know what people like about the game, we often have to solicit that information and look beyond the forums.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'll try to be active on this thread throughout the day, so feel free to shoot me any additional questions.

Haden Blackman

LucasArts Producer

P.S. Please remember that it is NOT Thunderheart's (or anyone else's) job to respond to my communications. I am again sorry that it has taken me so long to get back to the community, but please don't take it out on Kurt.

P.P.S. There a conspiracy theory brewing over a post I made to a Vader thread, which was then mysteriously deleted. No, I wasn't fired (sorry!). The thread asked if we would see Vader and other named characters in more prominent roles, and my response was basically "Yes." We already have Boba Fett showing up in Live Events and there are plans to do more of that. We also want to revamp the major NPCs (eventually). All that is still true. Everything involving a "named NPC" does need my approval and Lucasfilm's approval. As far as the thread disappearing, our best guess is that it was a technical hiccup on the boards, though I won't rule out gremlins or mynocks.






So what you're saying is you really have to dig hard to find people that are excited about SWG? This thinking is delusional. Here's why. Check out forums of games in which people are really having fun. You have NO trouble, I repeat, NO trouble finding happy posters, and people heaping praise. Check out City of Heroes site, or Eve-online, heck even EQ to a large extent(cept for GoD). Happy people are posting all the time!!!! Heaps of praise.








b Vist the NEW JEDI HOLOCRON -- Naboo -3246, 3984 Kauri Galaxy--CLOSED! R
If I had my choice, I'd still be a Creature Handler.
Instead, all I got was this lousy padawan robe.

Dracass
Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:45 pm
#257

Ok, here's some more "interestin'" news...



Look closely at the Owns section of the QA Manager:

It reads as this... (I must admit I didn't see it the first time through)

- Manages local QA team and any satellite SOE team (SD/India)

========> INDIA <=========



Sign off,
Dracass The'Heartless
Frederik
Sat Aug 07, 2004 10:25 am
#258

Wow, stiff crew and lots of flaming. Good work by the way, don't eat yourself up on one or two verbal mistakes with those interviews.


Anyone that complains about communication on this game should be beaten with a wiffle stick. I'll just point this out- this is the best communication I have ever seen since early MMORPGs. The posters complaining should try out the Blizzard boards, if you think this is flaming, the developers have been caught flaming there even... Or maybe Final Fantasy 11, those developers don't speak even speak English. Let's see how they can communicate with that.


While all the combat-revamps are going on can the economy/crafters get thrown a bone perhaps? Just one developer sent to fix the Merchant class, some of the other professions (DE, Dancer/Musician),or even get the bazaar and vendors fixedcompletely would help out a LOAD.


I would also like to include that the GCW consists right now of Rebel Jedi camping the Imperial Mission terminals. The whole jedi permanent overtness needs to be redone and the idea that they need to kill a certain amount of the other faction to be able to progress is just forcing player-camping.
jimcabtv
Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:48 pm
#259

Haden, I would like to commend you on a job well done. I know your team is working their tail off to get content in this game, and deep down I would have to say a majority of everyone playing this game is excited. I just have one problem, and it mainly involves what you said about forums and how many people use them.


Now, I'm sure alot of people in game actually post on the forums, but you also have to take in account those with multiple subscriptions and such. I know quite a bit of people with 2 accounts, and a few more with more than 2 accounts. I'm just saying, most people will only use one account as a forum poster, to post ideas and such, highly neglecting the other accounts...that may be where you see a lot of your "quiet" and "happy" gamers. Also you probably have to take in account all those extra names in your databases as well...sure, they are still in the database after 6 months, never logged on, and never posted, but do you actually include those names in your numbers? That is basically like writting down names on gravestones...not much going for ya.


Now if there was no mention of CR/GCW, I'm pretty sure your questions about JTL will be takenin a positive note, but if you ever so slightly mention those 2 factors, you will get plenty of mixed opinions about JTL. Sure, we all want space combat, but the core game is broken. In my opinion, that's pretty much like not taking a bath for 3 weeks and putting on a nice clean set of clothes....it just covers it up, but the clothes will get dirtierfaster. Bah, metaphors


Overall, I believe your data on opinions from game user's is skewed a little. Maybe putting a mandatory poll at the game startup will give you 100% truth about what 100% of the community wants. And if you are getting OUR opinion about what the combat balance, GCW, future patches, future publishes, and other ideas should entail, I'm sure that would be the most logical decision on your part....poll's at startup.



Reason Why Force Wielder Viability against Jedi Defenses should be in place - Straight from the Lead System Designer of the CU
_______Taven Shadowrider_______
Choker Extraordinare
______Ipock______
Sexah Fishy
______Horse Thieves______
Wanderhome
JediGohan
Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:55 am
#260






JediGohan wrote:

Is there talk of a Bounty Hunter revamp or luv patch somewhere in the works?










pwnd
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