Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Jedi Punchlist Feedback
ArsMoritoria
Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:04 am
#235
All I have to say about all of this is: Wow! I'm absolutely amazed. The sheer idiocy of the suggestion that a lightsabre wielding Jedi should be in any miniscule way afraid of a TKM is mind-boggling. First of all, to all of the people who so wrongly suggest that TKs were created to kill Jedi, police Jedi, or anything else, you need to look back about two pages worth of posts and find the very enlightening post about the origins of all of the TK crap. Basically, they are entirely non-canon, but even in the bits from the EU and other sources wherein they are thusly mentioned, it nearly always states that they are a RARITY! I have read litterally every post up until mine in this thread, so I realize that not only has this been addressed by others, but it constitutes much of the sheer bulk of the thread. There are so many hopes and dreams for what Jedi can and should be, so I'm going to break from my first rant and start a whole new itemized rant. Enjoy!
1. XP loss will greatly affect the ability for a Jedi Knight to change their template. There should be a way to retrain skills at the Knight level so that:
A. You don't have to do the trials again just to change a skill
B. The immense amount of negative XP that will happen in PVP will not gate you from retraining.
Now, note that PvP is noted only minorly as the problem this question adresses, thus a good response should include more than just mentioning the new mitigation of XP loss from Jedi vs Jedi PvP, though I think that it is a wonderful start. The real meat of this "question" is people seeking a way to be able to change their template after joining the Force Ranking System without having to go through the pain of dropping back down and starting quite nearly from scratch. A simple, "I'm sorry, but that's not really plausible," is certainly not out of line for that part of the question, though it is something I would like to see, as per the immense amount of time that it takes to reach that stage of Jedi-hood.
2. Accuracy with a lightsaber is below that of all other melee classes: (Numbers are given here which I will not be reposting due to my wish to compress this post as much as possible)
TH's response here is at least valid, though it sounds to me like the old, "Wait until combat balance and your concerns will be addressed," schtick that we've been hearing in the past. We being virtually every combat class in the game, not just Jedi.
3. Lots have not been addressed, it was specified by Keldarin that the main character/secondary will share 10 lots. Many Jedi have structures in their name by using the /transferstructure command which has not been labeled a punishment. Please check on what the conversion might do to existing structures.
Good response here, TH.
4. When toughness was modified to not work vs. sabers, it is actually not working now at all if you equip a saber yourself vs. anything. If you unequip your lightsaber then it works properly.
If this has indeed been fixed, then I applaud the devs.
5. The changes to the defense tree have made it very undesirable. There is literally nothing in the entire tree until Master when you get avoid incapacitation which is overall pretty useless.
I guess I can see where melee mitigation going away in PvP is pertinent to this response... kind of. However, the, "We're working on that," response could have sufficed, perhaps along with a small smattering of ideas as to possible fixes for the problem.
6. Meditation is the core of being a Jedi. It is the first thing every Jedi does in canon. Meditation should be moved to the Enhancement Novice box, with +meditation mods up the Synergy Tree along with Power boost EXACTLY like the TKA meditation line.
While I have agreements and disagreements with the above statement, I find the response to be ludicrous. How it can be unbalancing for a class that only requires 92 points to master, and only 49 points to achieve said affect, to have this ability, but a class that takes months upon months of toil to even unlock not to have something similar, I will never understand. In addition, there is the fact that Jedi are supposed to be unbalanced, not just a watered down elite class. Oh, and bribing us with emotes just doesn't cut it.
7. The voting terminal needs a timer so people don't have to sit around it all day clicking, very frustrating.
This could certainly be implemented, and I'm glad to see it taken as an issue to be addressed.
8. If you initiate a force power while still, you are then locked in place
I understand that this is really a moot point as everyone suffers from this, but perhaps some of the longer animations could be trimmed a bit so that the Jedi isn't stuck in one place so long as to get themselves killed, as I cannot think of too many animations that keep you stuck in place for such a significant period of time, aside from TKM Unarmed Hit 3.
9. Instead of "block" as the Jedi's only ranged defense, Jedi should have a small chance to "counterattack" exactly like Carbineers. This will let Jedi deal a small amount of damage back to ranged attackers and would easily fix the request for "reflection."
I mostly liked TH's response to this one, though I hate that it could possibly be months away. At least it was addressed.
10. 2 hand saber has no blocking animations
Working on it is acceptable, particularly as this is totally cosmetic, I think it can be safely shifted to a back-burner position.
11. XP loss should have a decay timer. Negative XP should decay some amount every week to help people get back on their feet.
The biggest problem that I have with the response to this statement is that it does not take into account non- or pre-FRS Jedi.
12. The skill points granted for the Apprentice box needs to be tweaked, its not giving anywhere near the amount of points it deserves. Additionally the 0444 boxes in Padawan are only giving +3 skill points each for 800k of xp, while Padawan gives +24, that doesn't equate.
Any attempt to make players happier with the conversion is time well invested, as doing this badly will greatly offend these players.
12b. When the conversion rates are tweaked, we want to see the chart. We are going to find out anyway as soon as we convert our skills so it makes no sense to withhold this.
I can understand his retticence to give any numbers until decisions are final, as SWG players have the funny tendency of becoming ravening beasts at the drop of of hat, but come on, couldn't he have simply responded, "I can't say anything about that out of concern for the wellbeing of myself and my family."
13. Robes of all levels should have *some* sort of armor resists. Padawan who are just starting out in the world could use a Robe with some resists. Higher level Jedi Robes should have +resists to certain things like poison/fire/etc.
I agree with the first two statements entirely, but state resists should really be a function of skills in your trees. Wait? What's that you say? They are? Oh, well then they should actually do something then, by Job.
14. Master Healing should be able to cure a firedot.
Glad this got a fix, though it's a bit much to have to spend the points to master this tree just to be able to get rid of a fire DoT.
15. Sabers made with exceptional pearls (-9 FC) for example are not returning exceptional components.
This is honestly a grave concern, as spending 40-70 mil on components for your lightsaber is bad, but getting back components worth less than half that? That's crazy.
16. Move Forcerun1 to Novice Enhancer, it really only adds some terrain negotiation and its silly that Jedi have none to begin with.
I'm not sure that I think this would be an altogether bad thing, but it's relatively minor, and easily tweaked later.
17. Move healbattlefatigueself1 to Novice Healing Box
This, on the other hand, I think might actually be pretty well advised.
18. Master Healing/Force Power need mods to +speed for their respective skills. Why would anyone use force lighting if the delay is 3 seconds when they can saberthrow at 1/second. Additionall Master Healing has no benefits other than Total Heal which is no longer even a total heal.
More responses about the FRS that leave everyone up to that point out in the cold...
19. Force Sensitive skills are useless for Jedi.
Now, if this is true across the board, then it brings up some real issues. For one, that is 24 SP that could be well invested in Jedi skills. For another, if Persuade doesn't give a Jedi any bonuses, then what's the point? Creature Handling? Squad Leading?
20. The bonus damage against lower level mobs needs to work with the default auto-attack as well. Low level Jedi can hardly do specials, so this is a catch-22 if only specials get the bonus.
I honestly have to question whether or not TH actually read the first part of this statment at all. His response to this and many other questions seems very much to focus on one minute part of the issue, while totally avoiding the other. I think he was trying to say that they are working on helping out Jedi on the low end, but he missed most of the question in his talk about Force Point enhancement on robes.
21. Jedi cannot block melee attacks....at all. This is unacceptable.
I cannot begin to say how much I agree with the above statment, and how black is the venom streaming forth from my lips toward my monitor. I object to this whole response on so many levels, some of which was detailed in my initial rant. First: as mentioned by others already, TK is 92 points to master, and can take as little as a day to do so. Second: TKs were not developed for said purpose. Third: if a class is supposed to be able to be the near-absolute answer to Jedi, then it too should be reserved as a special class that must take long periods of time and effort to even unlock, much less master. Fourth: this response did not simply limit TK as being Jedi killers, but melee classes in general. If a Jedi is not the end-all be-all answer to a melee profession, then I honestly can't think of what is. This demonstates that they intend to make Jedi the weakest of the melee classes, and that it entirely unacceptable. Fifth: If any regular class should be capable of taking out a Jedi, it should be the BH class. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed TK, as I was a master for around 4-5 months, even while grinding other classes for holos, but they should absolutely not be the undisputed rulers over Jedi, particularly considering the the only part of TK that most people use for PvP is Meditation, because the rest is useless with the armors and buffs in the game currently. I find this to be very disturbing news indeed. Further, if this is in fact to be the case, that TKs are going to be the Jedi-killers, then I think that all of the NPC Jedi mobs walking around Dant and other places should be debuffed to reflect this as well.
22. Polearm saber is superior to the other 2 sabers in everyway given the +100 speed rating at master. This means that every Jedi will be using one for the most part. Please bring the other 2 sabers up to par.
This is a valid point, and I am glad to see that something is being done about it. I just hope that they don't nerf the polearm saber to bring it down to the level of the other two, but my confidence is waning here...
23. Saber block will block a hit but the state effect will still stick on you. Long standing bug that also effects other professions defense modifiers.
This is a very longstanding bug that should have been fixed an eternity ago, so why are they still "looking into" it?
24. Jedi should be able to wear a backpack. Losing the 50 item carrying capacity because the art might not mesh perfectly simply isn't fair.
This is really quite a valid issue, and something should definately be done sooner than later, even if it is just a temporary fix until a better solution can be reached.
25. The force power tree overall is weak, especially Force Choke. Right now there is no reason to use these skills other than possibly Force Cone 2 which still has worse DPS then a ForceSaberThrow3 attack. The delay coupled with mediocre damage and high force cost makes this tree undesirable.
This really is unacceptable. If force powers aren't going to brought up to par with lightsabers, then just don't bother putting them in the game. It would save the devs lots of time coding and debugging.
26. Hooded Cloaks.
While this is a minor issue, there really should be plenty of ways to fix this so that Jedi can have their hoods. It can't be that difficult to redefine the coverage areas of the robes so that cloaks could be wearable over them, at least as another temporary fix until they put in some new art.
27. Overall skill point requirements need to either be reduced or one tree collapsed.
While I think that collapsing a tree might be a bit drastic an answer to this issue, I think that there are a number of things that can be done. Siting diversity and game balance as a reason not to do something about this is inane. There is only one remotely viable template for Jedi at the moment, and unless the Defense and Power trees get a major overhaul, that will not change. Honestly, for diversity's sake, changing the SP costs from a descending order to an ascending order is a really good idea and there is not a single reason why it couldn't/shouldn't be done. If the Devs don't want Jedi to stack mods so badly as all of the other classes, then they should figure out a mod point distribution that is in line with what they want to see done. There are so many options here that it boggles the mind.
28. Please change Culsion Inert Gas to any Inert Gas. Some servers have not seen culsion spawn for 100+ days and many Jedi will not be able to craft sabers indefinately
This is not so necessary a concern as many of the others so long as Culsion Inert Gas spawns often enough to satisfy player necessity. If it isn't spawning often enough, then there is a real problem, and it should be readjusted. I don't see what this has to be too difficult.
I guess that really covers everything in direct reply to the questions/statements posted, and TH's responses, though there are plenty of other things that should also be covered, such as the unneccessary decay on color crystals, but many of these things can be found elsewhere on the pages of this thread, and perhaps I'll try to cover them in a day or two. For the time being, however, I find myself very disappointed with a lot of changes that I saw as having so much potential, but seem to be an utter bust. I really hope that the devs read everything in my post and so many others before giving this patch-release the go-ahead, but I seriously doubt they are going to. They already know what they want to do, and how they are going to go about doing it, so everything we say is extraneous. I certainly fear that this will break the game, and that it will all go to waste before JTL can even have a chance to revive anything. I guess next week week will hold the answers to the question of whether they will flop or fly. Oh gods I hope it flies.
1. XP loss will greatly affect the ability for a Jedi Knight to change their template. There should be a way to retrain skills at the Knight level so that:
A. You don't have to do the trials again just to change a skill
B. The immense amount of negative XP that will happen in PVP will not gate you from retraining.
Now, note that PvP is noted only minorly as the problem this question adresses, thus a good response should include more than just mentioning the new mitigation of XP loss from Jedi vs Jedi PvP, though I think that it is a wonderful start. The real meat of this "question" is people seeking a way to be able to change their template after joining the Force Ranking System without having to go through the pain of dropping back down and starting quite nearly from scratch. A simple, "I'm sorry, but that's not really plausible," is certainly not out of line for that part of the question, though it is something I would like to see, as per the immense amount of time that it takes to reach that stage of Jedi-hood.
2. Accuracy with a lightsaber is below that of all other melee classes: (Numbers are given here which I will not be reposting due to my wish to compress this post as much as possible)
TH's response here is at least valid, though it sounds to me like the old, "Wait until combat balance and your concerns will be addressed," schtick that we've been hearing in the past. We being virtually every combat class in the game, not just Jedi.
3. Lots have not been addressed, it was specified by Keldarin that the main character/secondary will share 10 lots. Many Jedi have structures in their name by using the /transferstructure command which has not been labeled a punishment. Please check on what the conversion might do to existing structures.
Good response here, TH.
4. When toughness was modified to not work vs. sabers, it is actually not working now at all if you equip a saber yourself vs. anything. If you unequip your lightsaber then it works properly.
If this has indeed been fixed, then I applaud the devs.
5. The changes to the defense tree have made it very undesirable. There is literally nothing in the entire tree until Master when you get avoid incapacitation which is overall pretty useless.
I guess I can see where melee mitigation going away in PvP is pertinent to this response... kind of. However, the, "We're working on that," response could have sufficed, perhaps along with a small smattering of ideas as to possible fixes for the problem.
6. Meditation is the core of being a Jedi. It is the first thing every Jedi does in canon. Meditation should be moved to the Enhancement Novice box, with +meditation mods up the Synergy Tree along with Power boost EXACTLY like the TKA meditation line.
While I have agreements and disagreements with the above statement, I find the response to be ludicrous. How it can be unbalancing for a class that only requires 92 points to master, and only 49 points to achieve said affect, to have this ability, but a class that takes months upon months of toil to even unlock not to have something similar, I will never understand. In addition, there is the fact that Jedi are supposed to be unbalanced, not just a watered down elite class. Oh, and bribing us with emotes just doesn't cut it.
7. The voting terminal needs a timer so people don't have to sit around it all day clicking, very frustrating.
This could certainly be implemented, and I'm glad to see it taken as an issue to be addressed.
8. If you initiate a force power while still, you are then locked in place
I understand that this is really a moot point as everyone suffers from this, but perhaps some of the longer animations could be trimmed a bit so that the Jedi isn't stuck in one place so long as to get themselves killed, as I cannot think of too many animations that keep you stuck in place for such a significant period of time, aside from TKM Unarmed Hit 3.
9. Instead of "block" as the Jedi's only ranged defense, Jedi should have a small chance to "counterattack" exactly like Carbineers. This will let Jedi deal a small amount of damage back to ranged attackers and would easily fix the request for "reflection."
I mostly liked TH's response to this one, though I hate that it could possibly be months away. At least it was addressed.
10. 2 hand saber has no blocking animations
Working on it is acceptable, particularly as this is totally cosmetic, I think it can be safely shifted to a back-burner position.
11. XP loss should have a decay timer. Negative XP should decay some amount every week to help people get back on their feet.
The biggest problem that I have with the response to this statement is that it does not take into account non- or pre-FRS Jedi.
12. The skill points granted for the Apprentice box needs to be tweaked, its not giving anywhere near the amount of points it deserves. Additionally the 0444 boxes in Padawan are only giving +3 skill points each for 800k of xp, while Padawan gives +24, that doesn't equate.
Any attempt to make players happier with the conversion is time well invested, as doing this badly will greatly offend these players.
12b. When the conversion rates are tweaked, we want to see the chart. We are going to find out anyway as soon as we convert our skills so it makes no sense to withhold this.
I can understand his retticence to give any numbers until decisions are final, as SWG players have the funny tendency of becoming ravening beasts at the drop of of hat, but come on, couldn't he have simply responded, "I can't say anything about that out of concern for the wellbeing of myself and my family."
13. Robes of all levels should have *some* sort of armor resists. Padawan who are just starting out in the world could use a Robe with some resists. Higher level Jedi Robes should have +resists to certain things like poison/fire/etc.
I agree with the first two statements entirely, but state resists should really be a function of skills in your trees. Wait? What's that you say? They are? Oh, well then they should actually do something then, by Job.
14. Master Healing should be able to cure a firedot.
Glad this got a fix, though it's a bit much to have to spend the points to master this tree just to be able to get rid of a fire DoT.
15. Sabers made with exceptional pearls (-9 FC) for example are not returning exceptional components.
This is honestly a grave concern, as spending 40-70 mil on components for your lightsaber is bad, but getting back components worth less than half that? That's crazy.
16. Move Forcerun1 to Novice Enhancer, it really only adds some terrain negotiation and its silly that Jedi have none to begin with.
I'm not sure that I think this would be an altogether bad thing, but it's relatively minor, and easily tweaked later.
17. Move healbattlefatigueself1 to Novice Healing Box
This, on the other hand, I think might actually be pretty well advised.
18. Master Healing/Force Power need mods to +speed for their respective skills. Why would anyone use force lighting if the delay is 3 seconds when they can saberthrow at 1/second. Additionall Master Healing has no benefits other than Total Heal which is no longer even a total heal.
More responses about the FRS that leave everyone up to that point out in the cold...
19. Force Sensitive skills are useless for Jedi.
Now, if this is true across the board, then it brings up some real issues. For one, that is 24 SP that could be well invested in Jedi skills. For another, if Persuade doesn't give a Jedi any bonuses, then what's the point? Creature Handling? Squad Leading?
20. The bonus damage against lower level mobs needs to work with the default auto-attack as well. Low level Jedi can hardly do specials, so this is a catch-22 if only specials get the bonus.
I honestly have to question whether or not TH actually read the first part of this statment at all. His response to this and many other questions seems very much to focus on one minute part of the issue, while totally avoiding the other. I think he was trying to say that they are working on helping out Jedi on the low end, but he missed most of the question in his talk about Force Point enhancement on robes.
21. Jedi cannot block melee attacks....at all. This is unacceptable.
I cannot begin to say how much I agree with the above statment, and how black is the venom streaming forth from my lips toward my monitor. I object to this whole response on so many levels, some of which was detailed in my initial rant. First: as mentioned by others already, TK is 92 points to master, and can take as little as a day to do so. Second: TKs were not developed for said purpose. Third: if a class is supposed to be able to be the near-absolute answer to Jedi, then it too should be reserved as a special class that must take long periods of time and effort to even unlock, much less master. Fourth: this response did not simply limit TK as being Jedi killers, but melee classes in general. If a Jedi is not the end-all be-all answer to a melee profession, then I honestly can't think of what is. This demonstates that they intend to make Jedi the weakest of the melee classes, and that it entirely unacceptable. Fifth: If any regular class should be capable of taking out a Jedi, it should be the BH class. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed TK, as I was a master for around 4-5 months, even while grinding other classes for holos, but they should absolutely not be the undisputed rulers over Jedi, particularly considering the the only part of TK that most people use for PvP is Meditation, because the rest is useless with the armors and buffs in the game currently. I find this to be very disturbing news indeed. Further, if this is in fact to be the case, that TKs are going to be the Jedi-killers, then I think that all of the NPC Jedi mobs walking around Dant and other places should be debuffed to reflect this as well.
22. Polearm saber is superior to the other 2 sabers in everyway given the +100 speed rating at master. This means that every Jedi will be using one for the most part. Please bring the other 2 sabers up to par.
This is a valid point, and I am glad to see that something is being done about it. I just hope that they don't nerf the polearm saber to bring it down to the level of the other two, but my confidence is waning here...
23. Saber block will block a hit but the state effect will still stick on you. Long standing bug that also effects other professions defense modifiers.
This is a very longstanding bug that should have been fixed an eternity ago, so why are they still "looking into" it?
24. Jedi should be able to wear a backpack. Losing the 50 item carrying capacity because the art might not mesh perfectly simply isn't fair.
This is really quite a valid issue, and something should definately be done sooner than later, even if it is just a temporary fix until a better solution can be reached.
25. The force power tree overall is weak, especially Force Choke. Right now there is no reason to use these skills other than possibly Force Cone 2 which still has worse DPS then a ForceSaberThrow3 attack. The delay coupled with mediocre damage and high force cost makes this tree undesirable.
This really is unacceptable. If force powers aren't going to brought up to par with lightsabers, then just don't bother putting them in the game. It would save the devs lots of time coding and debugging.
26. Hooded Cloaks.
While this is a minor issue, there really should be plenty of ways to fix this so that Jedi can have their hoods. It can't be that difficult to redefine the coverage areas of the robes so that cloaks could be wearable over them, at least as another temporary fix until they put in some new art.
27. Overall skill point requirements need to either be reduced or one tree collapsed.
While I think that collapsing a tree might be a bit drastic an answer to this issue, I think that there are a number of things that can be done. Siting diversity and game balance as a reason not to do something about this is inane. There is only one remotely viable template for Jedi at the moment, and unless the Defense and Power trees get a major overhaul, that will not change. Honestly, for diversity's sake, changing the SP costs from a descending order to an ascending order is a really good idea and there is not a single reason why it couldn't/shouldn't be done. If the Devs don't want Jedi to stack mods so badly as all of the other classes, then they should figure out a mod point distribution that is in line with what they want to see done. There are so many options here that it boggles the mind.
28. Please change Culsion Inert Gas to any Inert Gas. Some servers have not seen culsion spawn for 100+ days and many Jedi will not be able to craft sabers indefinately
This is not so necessary a concern as many of the others so long as Culsion Inert Gas spawns often enough to satisfy player necessity. If it isn't spawning often enough, then there is a real problem, and it should be readjusted. I don't see what this has to be too difficult.
I guess that really covers everything in direct reply to the questions/statements posted, and TH's responses, though there are plenty of other things that should also be covered, such as the unneccessary decay on color crystals, but many of these things can be found elsewhere on the pages of this thread, and perhaps I'll try to cover them in a day or two. For the time being, however, I find myself very disappointed with a lot of changes that I saw as having so much potential, but seem to be an utter bust. I really hope that the devs read everything in my post and so many others before giving this patch-release the go-ahead, but I seriously doubt they are going to. They already know what they want to do, and how they are going to go about doing it, so everything we say is extraneous. I certainly fear that this will break the game, and that it will all go to waste before JTL can even have a chance to revive anything. I guess next week week will hold the answers to the question of whether they will flop or fly. Oh gods I hope it flies.
Tainted-Pain
Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:16 am
#236
All I ask is to be a jedi Please make me a jedi on tc come on whos it going to hurt!
Entishunter
Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:27 am
#238
Cool devs! You are resolutions to nerf one already nerfed class from beginning!! congratulations.. you are one joke!!
AKawolski
Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:51 am
#239
Suggestion on Meditate to keep it "balanced":
Allow any Jedi to have /meditate but keep the +meditate skill modifier at 0 so they don't do anything while meditating except recharge HAM faster (at the same rateyou do anyway while sitting down).
Force Meditate for all would be nice...except unless you have the Synergy tree, it'll do nothing except the pretty animation (but cost 0 force).
BlueHorizion
Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:52 am
#240
Achaniel wrote:
AHHH! are all of you posters on crack. This is a game and like all games if it is to easy to win it isn't fun. Jedi shouldn't equal god mode. It is a character class like all the others. the Devs take away powers and you **edit**, but how fun would it be if everyone eventualy became jedis and we all had the same powers and configurations. It would be like playing a game with everyone using cheats. Being a jedi should not automatically make you a god no more than being a wizard in EQ. Jedi in episode 2 were killed easily enough by droids and jango fett so why should they be uber or deserve more consideration than any other class. while you can't have star wars without jedi it is unfortunate that a time frame was chosen for this game in which in the larger sence all the outcomes have been predetermined and the possibilliy of jedis are also constrained as they should not exist during this time. In closing, I believe jedi should be just another character class in its genisis and should not util it's highest levels assend above that of others.
Well thats great, but please do tell where anyone asked for jedi to be a "god character" that can kill anything and anyone at anywhere at anytime. No onehas asked for "special powers" or "ub3r n3ss"and none of the responses have intailed anything unreasonable. Rather the annoyance is at the utterly strange logic behind the devs responses such as the one about Jedi not being able to block MELEE ATTACKS??
Most of the "posters on crack" that you speak of have been very reasonable and constructive in their posting, detailing numbers, facts, and data that speaks to the contrary of what the devs are telling us. Some have even proposed logical alternatives without being offensive, meanspirited, or foulmouthed. Unfortunately, the big issues have been met with answers like "We dissagree" "The development team is against that" or "It would be unbalancing" without providing a logical explanation as to why this is when a mountain of data has been expressed to the contrary. These arent "uber" things the Jedi community is asking for and they are rather reasonable if you have ever played a Jedi or know somone personally who has played one. They only want what was promised them in earlier notes of the publish changes.
I can assure you they are not on crack or any other sort of drugs. My question is, are you?
iskareot
Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:04 am
#241
- Jedi Powers -- not so good but ok fine..
- Crystal Drop Rates unknown
-
- Jedi and Combat -- not enough yet to tell
- Lightsaber Crafting - BAD GIVE ME SOME COLOR CRYSTALS AT LEAST TO START
- Jedi Conversion Process-- Not so cool, we should be at our trainer when this happens NOT DATH
- Etc.
Jinxx0r
Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:06 am
#242
guess I can dump my 2 accounts now. thought it would get better... guess I was wrong. The no armor robes, the fact that FS skills cost skill credits (when you said that you wouldn't have to change your main for minor FS abilities), skill box for skill box transfer (where you tell us it's not fair because it doesn't fit into these new, arbitrary jedi xp numbers that you just pull out of your ass), and the massive nerf to the class (which is barely better than a class you can master in 3 days). You've made jedi a joke. You really expect people to play a character for 6-9 months to only be slightly better than your other joke classes?
Your whole development staff is filled with liars and scumbags. You tell us the things above and then reneige at the end. I guess if you tell people that it's fun enough times they'll finally start to believe it. Only SOE could make me disgusted with star wars. My wife will be happy to save the extra $30 a month. How disappointing this game became. I remember when I was excited that this game was coming out.
bleh.
It will be a pleasure to cancel and not waste my time and money on lies and half truths.
Your whole development staff is filled with liars and scumbags. You tell us the things above and then reneige at the end. I guess if you tell people that it's fun enough times they'll finally start to believe it. Only SOE could make me disgusted with star wars. My wife will be happy to save the extra $30 a month. How disappointing this game became. I remember when I was excited that this game was coming out.
bleh.
It will be a pleasure to cancel and not waste my time and money on lies and half truths.
Rathmata
Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:58 am
#243
Last night I did a conversion on a saber created with two -8 and two -9 fc pearls. The force cost conversion is not working. The pearls I got out of it were crap fc compared to even the higher force cost sabers I broke down. I had better fc crystals on my TC2 jedi care-package actually. This is unacceptable and needs to be fixed. There are jedi that spent months working the get the best possible saber, and they're being damaged unfairly by this conversion. DEVS, please address this. I spent months getting pearls that were the cream of the crop... and I should have equivilant materials post patch.
Rathmata
Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:04 am
#244
One more thing... If you run out of inventory room while breaking down sabers, you just LOSE the pearls. It doesn't stop you from breaking down the saber. The saber breaks and the pearls over your inventory limit are gone.
IlyaMasool
Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:18 am
#245
jewboywa wrote:
Maybe its just me but this doesnt make any sense at all.. We are a Melee class that hates to fight melee?? Why on earth did we develope a lightsaber then? Wouldnt it have been better to develop a blaster rifle or something?
Sorry for the sarcasm but this just seems crazy to me..
Okay maybe this will help.
There are TWO combat type.
Ranged and Melee.
There are ONE Jedi Type.
Melee.
So, there are FOUR way combat can be balanced for Jedi.
First, Jedi can be untouchable by both Ranged and Melee. This is a possibility if Jedi vs Rest of the player Balance is not needed. i.e. therewill beno or very little interaction between Jedi and rest of the player base. Considering that Jedi will be more PvP oriented as well as Dev trying to make it easier for players to become Jedi as well as trying to make GCW the "elder end game" of GCW, this is not an option.
Second, Jedi are vulnerable to both Range and Melee. This is equally bad option. Jedi are hard to get and harder to master and harder yet to climb the rank. If they are weak against both melee players and ranged players, they will not be able to survive.
Third, Jedi are protected from Melee but weak against Ranged. This is a bad choice due to the Melee nature of the Jedi combat. Since Jedi must get close to the target, if they are weak against range profession who are likely spread out and concentrate their fire on Jedi, it would be hard for Jedi to survive.
And finally the one we have. Jedi are protected from Range but weak against Melee. This make the most obvious sense. Since range may spread out and concentrate their range fire on Jedi, but it will be very little damage to Jedi. And Melee Fighters will surround the Jedi which put them in Jedi's own attack range. This also work well for Jedi who will have area attack that can take on multiple melee opponent at once.
So there you have it. It is choice between what kind of combatant will Jedi ranther be weary of. Ranged player? Melee player? or both?Ofcourse Jedi wanna say neither. But since there will be a Jedi Balance regardless how they feel, they have to pick one.
Dev choose Melee.
If most of Jedi prefer to be weak against Range attacker instead of Melee, I guess they can ask and maybe Dev will listen.
Dracass
Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:26 am
#246
I think that this be one of the most easist suggestions to implement and that will put down a number of flames. Should the Jedi become basically a normal character profession, then I believe the idea of having weak melee skills would be acceptable. Am not saying its the best idea, but its a very simple solution to many problems.
Raxor wrote:
Very well....then please remove the 100 times XP needed....If Jedi is "just another class" with no real power over those...then why should Jedi need 100 times the XP to level????...Make them Fencers with pretty sword if you wanna...but then make them level as easy as fencers too.
but oh well, time to post another story...
FloorPizza
Thu Jun 24, 2004 8:31 am
#247
Regarding Saber Breakdown...
First of all, a very large thank you for making Test Center-Bria2. It was nice to be able to have a test go at converting my live jedi. Here's my experience with it:
The saber did break down, and left me pearls with fairly decent stats, but imagine my surprise when there was no Color Crystal.
Please, give us color crystals when converting old sabers.
I spent months grinding to get my FSCS. I spent months crafting and selling armor to buy the rare looted components to make my saber. I spent months hunting krayt dragons attempting to loot my own pearls. And now, even after I've already spent my time crawling out of these time sinks, I now find myself in yet another time sink/catch-22 situation. I need to have a color crystal. So my options are trying to make enough money to be able to afford to buy one, or go out and kill NPC's in an attempt to loot one. Yet I cannot go out and kill NPC's with my jedi, because I lack the weapon I need to kill the NPC's in order to get the component I need for the weapon to kill NPC's. So I guess it's back to my main for another big time sink. Devs, I have done my time. I have crawled out of every time sink you've thrown my way, and I want to PLAY the game. I want to play, yet I can't, because I seem to be always stuck in your time sinks. I wanted to get a Jedi so I could play him. Not spend countless hours on alternate characters attempting to drag his butt out of yet anotherstupid time sink. I'd love to go check out the corellian corvette, hunt down the Gorax, take a stab at the DW bunker, or enjoy other content portions of the game. But I can't, because I'm always stuck in time sinks in an attempt to get my jedi to the point where I can actually play him. THIS IS NOT FUN.
At this point, I am simply not willing to invest any more time to get my jedi to the point where he's playable. I've already done my time.
Here's what I have to look forward to when publish nine goes live: Spending many millions of credits, or countless hours looting NPC's in search of a color crystal. Spending HUGE amounts of credits on Culsion gas that hasn't spawned in months from price gougers. All this just to even be able to play my character. Gee, this sounds like great fun.
Closing thought: If a character has a live jedi in publish 8 with a working saber, then that character should be able to have a working saber in publish 9 without spending more time in time sinks or spending additional credits.