Development Cycle Archive
Thread: AT-ST changes on Test Center
I hope someone that tools this game sits and reads all these posts cause I just spent 3 hours doing it myself. From what I gather here this is gonna be a total mess. The point of faction soliders being called creatures being brought up more times than I can count. This is correct. These are soliders not pets. Since we can only have 1 out at a time can we be allowed to get like 6 faction SOLIDERS?I would like to get some stromtroopers, that are cheap and expendable, but I have 3 AtSts that I am not giving up as it was a LONG hard road to get them.
Before this diaster goes through please devs. log into each and every server and ask yourself.."What do I see?" Your answer will be time and time again...ANIMALS. Animals everywhere. After this publish that will most likely increase 10 fold. I hate hate hate hate the fact that animal taming was EVER put into this game, but your design of the whole system almost make people dependant on some animal to tank for them.
Every publish I just feel more and more Star Wars slipping away from what could have been the best mmorpg ever.
This change to the AtSt will make the only inscintive to being an Imperial (PvE) gone. Don't kid yourself and think these things are used for PvP. They haven't been since commandos can flame them out.
Last thing here..people (mostly rebels) cried for nerf cause "Imperial bad guy" would kill all the Krayts with their AtSts. AtSts are too overpowered they say. Head over to the commando forums and you can read posts of commandos soloing AtSts..humm..
Krayt Dragon < AtSt < Lone Commando .....hummm What needs nerfing again?? 
Ok I havesome issues here. Faction pets are used to determine what challeng level mission you can take from terminals. In my case, I let the faction pet sit at the base while me and my buddies go complet a say level 193 mission. We don't use out ATSTs, we do it ourselves. In this light to bring back the issue of balance, you should let us dial in a mission level from the terminal. Its all about earning more cash and faction points per mission. Also, high level missions are more fun. My next qiestion is, as a cerature handler, how will faction pets factor in with the number of stored creature pets I can hav? Does this mean I can't ride my mount with my ATST following me? Will faction pets count a creature levels that I can control?
One last thing, it takes a lot longer to get a ATST than it does to get to a point where you can control say, a mountain squill. Also if the mountain squill goes down its a loss in vitality rather than a permanent loss, ad when it finally does go awy, its not a huge loss as I can go back to Tattoine to get a new one. I thought the permadeath on faction pets was the tradeoff of being able to call a bunch of them at once. Most people use their ATST spatingly because they know once its out of HAM, its gone for ever.
Currently, with the way flamethrowers work, an AT-ST can be taken out with two shots (2 specials) and there is NOTHING the owner of the AT-ST can do about it.
Here is the way it works in PvP:
Covert Commando with a Flamethrower is grouped with any Overt Rebel. Overt Rebel opens fire on the AT-ST or the Overt owner of the AT-ST. Covert Commando can now attack either of these at will, but still not be attacked until he/she attacks. Covert Commando gets within 10 meters of the AT-ST, and lines up his 2 hotkeyed specials for his flamethrower and lets loose. The Owner of the AT-ST will see his/her AT-ST die off in about 20 seconds. That's how fast those DOTS destroy the AT-ST, and there is NO way to combat this.
Here is what happened as a result:
AT-ST's are no longer used in PvP. This is what YOU CLAIM that they are to be used for. However, you seem to have blinders on to the existing problems with WHY they ARENT being used in PvP!
AT's are only being used in PvE as a result. That's all they are good for.
Now here is what is GOING to happen:
Now that you are going to make them utterly useless in PvE, and they have been utterly useless in PvP for some time, you have effectively made them totally useless in all regards. They have simply been turned into a faction point sink. I, for one, demand a way to be reimbursed for this utterly useless pet that you have forced upon me with these unforseen changes.
I want to be able to turn this AT-ST back into my factional recruiter for a full refund of my faction points.
As an added note, you have effectively made ALL factional pets utterly useless in ALL regards with this silly limitation of 1 pet. 1 stormtrooper or rebel marine lasts about 5 seconds in PvP. You simply don't see that happen these days. With factional pets made useless by your nerfs, factional bases still bugged to the extreme that are costly, and don't have all the bonuses you once promised, furniture and other buyable equipment through faction either being overpriced or/and useless, there really is NOTHING to spend faction points on. There is NO reason to even bother with factional points anymore.
Through your own lack of forethought, and the recent introduction of decay that hits you even while PvP'ing and even while you insured, you have been effectively going down a road to the destruction of the GCW in this game.
Well guess what? You've already arrived at that destination.
I'm done with this. I'll check back with you guys in a year or so to see if you get your act together.
I like these changes for the most part. Commandos are very dangerous to AT STs, but that's just one class in the game. Throw an AT ST against any other professionand it will not have any problem dispatching them... evensomebody using a PowerHammer couldn't do it without a strong support group, the AT ST dishes out damage and can outlast them.
Also, I think the biggest problem is with Group TEF (Revenge TEF's evil cousin). If that were removed from the game (see signature), then you wouldn't have Commandos coming straight out of the clone center to line up that perfect fire DoT. They would have to go Overt first and you could do what is necessary to drop him before he is in range. There should NEVER be an instant where a COVERThas the luxury of initiating attack on an OVERT. Currently through Group TEF the game allows this. Want to defend your friends?HEAL THEMor go OVERT!
It would be much easier to keep the expensive AT ST in good health, even against Commandos. The only people that would want to keep Group TEF are the ones exploiting(TAURIN!)it to their advantage... usually TKs or Commandos. Those are two classes that you don'twant to mess with up close.. yet with Group TEF there is nothing you can do to keep them off you or your pets.
Aside from Group TEF situations, the only way I could ever see losing an AT ST would be due to superior numbers and tactics. If people are losing them to solo commandos or other players(again, outside of Group TEF) then they don't know what they are doing and should lose them.
The main problem I have withthe changesis how the # of faction pets you can have out is tied into CH. Faction pets are not creatures, they are (compared to eopies) intelligent military units... they are entirely unrelated. The only change that needs to be made is make the AT ST count as three faction pets. This way, a player could either have 3 Stormtroopers or 1 AT ST out... and it has nothing to do with CH.
Summary to make AT STs an enjoyable part of the game (and improve PvP for everyone):
1) Remove Group TEF - single most annoying part of this game, it's no different from Revenge TEF and you removed that.. make it happen.
2) Make AT STs count as three faction pets
Thank you and good luck.
TremorArchayen wrote:Awesome awesome changes.
Finally these uber dood Imps will no longer be able to farm krayts.
Thank you Devs!
One problem with that kind of "logic".
As its already been pointed out - there are many more Imperials that have never been "krayt hunting" with their factional pets than there are that have.
I've never been Krayt hunting. Ever. Nor do I have any desire to do so. From what I've heard, its a kill-stealing campfest participated by Rebels AND Imperials alike. There is more than enough blame to spread to both sides no matter which way you'd like to cut it and its exactly that reason I decided to never bother with Krayts.
Just not worth the trouble to me. Same with holocrons. I haven't been to the force caves nor have I been hunting force sensitive NPC's. The whole idea that I have to kill people for Holocrons to steer me on the path to a Jedi, is one of the more stupid ideas SOE has concocted to date. I refuse to perpetuate their idea that killing hundreds of people for this purpose should be something "condoned" in your quest to be a Jedi.
I'm an Imperial and have never owned an AT-ST.
I agree and understand why you would only allow a player to have 1 AT-ST out at a time. Especially with the future plan to make it an actual vehicle. You could only drive one at a time and they are pretty powerful.They should be a little rare. I don't understand why someone can't heal / repair an AT-ST. It should be a skill for one of the professions....or an AT-ST repair tool. (with a reasonable chance to actually work)...or something. Especially with them being so easily damaged by flame.
I don't agree or understand why you would not allow a player to have multiple faction pets (stormtroopers etc) out at one time. It makes sense that the higher rank in your faction the more troops you could command. They are fairly cheap, do minimal damage,and are an expendable item. There is a distinct difference between troops (pets) and AT-ST's. I would like to see a player with high enough rank be able to command 5 or 6 troops at one time. There really isn't any other incentive to gain rank. Not even a title above your head to show off.
Sensai wrote:
I don't agree or understand why you would not allow a player to have multiple faction pets (stormtroopers etc) out at one time. It makes sense that the higher rank in your faction the more troops you could command.
Indeed. If a CH gets more pets to control with a higher skill why it isn't true for a faction player with a higher rank.
Talk about some clueless devs... can someone please tell me how the **edit** AT-STs and Stormtroopers coincide with Creature Handlers? THEY DON'T. Get your heads off your desks and use some common sense. Come on now.
So much for going for continuity to Star Wars... AT-STs were not able to be taken out so fricken easily in Star Wars, and many people are going to wind up quitting your game because of one thing -- the more time that goes by, the less it will feel like Star Wars and more like EQ with a Star Wars label smacked on it. Hell, I could sell a pile of literal crap I picked off the ground, stamp a Star Wars label on it and people would buy it. Please stop making us feel like that's what we did with SWG and make the game useful for the Imperials.
Imperials are currently outnumbered by rebels by 63% (according to YOU DEVS), so why make this happen... Trying to entice more folks to join the Empire eh? Wow, you've done one hell of a job. Congratulations, you've managed to become even more useless than the EQ Devs, who haven't updated the game in months for new content or bug fixes.
Time to start worrying about customer satisfaction. And a little hint to the rebels, YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO HAVE AT-STs OR ANYTHING CLOSE. YOU ARE A REBELLION MEANING YOU DONT HAVE BRUTE STRENGTH GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK HEADS. YOU FIND OTHER ODS TO TAKING OUT OUR VEHICLES, BUT ONE TROOPER SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO STAND IN FRONT OF AN ARMORED ATTACK TRANSPORT AND KILL IT. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
Gadzooks.
I played as a imperial master combat medic with revive/pistoleer on the eclipse server. I went that way not because it's the most popular profession, it's actually the least, trying finding master cm to train u. I played it because of the challenge of mastering a difficult profession. I choose imperial because of the great at-st at 9450fp, only reason to be imperial. I have only played the game for 3 months, and finally master cm, got my first atst and now you are telling me my new pet is being nerfed after my chosen profession was just nerfed?
Please if you really care about balancing the game, the one profession you should balance is TKA, they are simply just too powerful, have you count how many 4k HAM TKA running around lately? Who can kill a 4k HAM TKA with knockdown now that there is no more DoT deaths? You were talking about how hard it is to play as a TKA in the game, last time I check, it is one of the cheapest and easiest to attain among all the elite profession and the most powerful too, this is not balance at all.
This forum might be dominated by extremist from both sides of the GCW, on one side there is the jealous rebels talking about imperials using atst unfairly, on the other side there is the cocky imperial atst lovers who hate to see their already useless in PvP atst getting nerfed. There are more people playing rebels than imperials so their cry is way louder than imperials and that may make you think you are doing the right thing to balance the game. Please try and find time to visit all the servers and maybe observe or enough ask around, how many imperial players use their atst in PvP combat or how easily a rebel commando/CH can kill off an atst. Atst is not too powerful in the game, on the contrary, it is too weak to be effective.
I really want to play as a combat medic but after reading this threed, I may not have a choice but to give it up and play as a rebel CH/commando just to survive out there. There is no more fun in playing any profession on the imperial side anymore, our voices can not be heard and even if it did, it does not matters. At-st was suppose to be the holy grail on the imperial side, even playing as a human, i still need to save 9450fp to get one, i find it easier to get master cm than to get the atst.
What you are doing is just pushing more and more people into the CH or TKA profession, even with holocrons telling people to be anything but CH or TKA, there will still be more of them than any other just becausethose2 are the most powerful right now
This is on page bazillion so I hope it gets read. There's a fair amount I disagree with here, and I think this needs to be addressed before these changes ship live and even more fun is leeched from the game.
First I think faction pets and CH pets should be considered separate. I am a CH and I do not feel threatened by people being able to use faction pets. That said, they shouldbe confined to using them on faction missions, that part I agree with, and not just for the AT-ST. ALL Faction pets should be limited to faction missions.
Next, I think the fire DoT makes as little sense as any other. If anything, only an acid DoT or blast dmg should hurt it. But god forbid we should step on the toes of the eight million one-shot-kill commandos out there...
Finally, if you are going to nerf AT-ST armor, give us the means to repair the things! They already fold like a house of cards in PvP anyway.
In summary:
- Limit ALL faction pets to faction missions and PvP only. Leave faction pet count and CH pet count separate.
- Add means to repair/heal AT-ST if you're going to make it take damage easier, which is the effect of this change.
- Remove fire DoT. Add Acid DoT if you must have a DoT effect.
Of course, the ultimate solution is to make them player vehicles. Looking forward to that! Until then, we need a balance between what we've had and what is fair to all.
ok this is wrong ,
-Gaining 10k faction points is a bit of a grind, but it's nothing compared to mastering an elite profession, and I think it's really stupid for an Artisan who has run tons of Deliver missions for the Empire to be able to out-pet a Master Creature Handler.
-can anyone please explain to me why the heck CH's should be able to controll faction pet's , if any proffesion should be able to controll more faction pets then any other it should be Squad leader its obvius , CH bah !
can anyone please explain to me how the heck the empire took over the galaxy !?it feels like the sw movies and this game hold a very diffrent story to it, where i as a imperial feel like the huntedoutnumberd rebels you see in the movie, it would be nice to have some kind of reflection of that movies in the game ,
-AT-ST should be able to be get a repair
-AT-ST should not be able to get a flame DoT
and please fix this dizzy on ST =knocked down 4 ever !
tuinal wrote:
Assuming I use them for large scale PvP fights, their average life expectancy will honestly be 15 minutes, give or take a few. Every rebel commando will target them because they know what a loss it is for the imperial player. If the point cost is reduced to 5000, that's roughly a week of daily play to get another.
So, per week, I'll be playing PvP with an AT-ST for 15 minutes, and gathering faction points for another for 7 days.
Given this, can you really call it cowardice if someone stores their AT-ST at the first sign of an overt rebel? I'd call it intelligence. You seem to think it's the fact imperial players don't know how to PvP that's the problem - it isn't. There are many situations in which you can be dead in a few seconds. All it takes sometimesare a few lucky hits or a gank squad coming outta nowhere. Imagine if every time as a rebel you died, you lost 9k in faction points - because soon as you're dead,then your AT-ST is done for, because any commandocan solo one just the same as they'd solo any other PvE mob.
So what do we, as Rebels, have that is comparable? NOTHING. So quit bitching and be happy that you have anything worth spending faction points on.
They are making it nothing but stronger with the 46,000 extra HAM they get. Where exactly is the nerf?!