Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Thoughts on the Warren?
I grouped with four others, and we headed into the Warren yesterday to do the Compassion and also Imperial Hero quests. We got the escapee keys fairly quickly, and fortunately, one member in the group had the full set of lift keys from a prior camp. It took us- on the overall - about 4 hours for us to complete both quests, though one in our group died and could not retrieve the remaining piece of evidence necessary to complete the quest before the servers went down.
The multiple levels shown on the map is indeed an issue, though not crippling. It added perhaps to some general confusion on how to get from one area to another, but I found that within two hours of running around the subterranean level 2, I could about get a handle of the map areas.
On the overall, it was an OK dungeon that my group enjoyed, despite the loud complaints about getting lost in the first hour or so.
I think that place totally rocks.
Wentthere with afew different groups till i could finally finish. And not everyone on my group was able to do so. Some of us died in the process and didnt feel like running all the way there.
But its a great place and we need lots more like that. One dungeon every month or 2 would b awesome.
One thing that needs to b worked on is the tabbing through the targets. on a place like that, with lvls and lvls of mobs, its pretty hard to tab the mob you want on emergencies. By the time u tabbed through the whole dungeon, your friend is already dead.
That was also a well balanced challenged creature wise. Its tough enough to add challenge but not insanely hard that only a especific combination of professions and super skilled players could do it.
Good work on that.
Just wish you would do such a great job on the professions.....
The Warren is a well thought out dungeon that is worth more than just a few visits.
It is GREAT.
Have 20 dungeons like this on every planet and nobody will complain about content any more
Its fun, however some of the "camping for keys" to advance sucks. All keys should be either incorporated into the datapad like the data you had to download was.
Another part that wasn't fun was all the deathblowing mobs once you got deep into the dungeon. It was a decent run to get there (4km from imp outpost), then you had to do the entire first level over again to get the elevator working again, etc etc. I got incapped a couple times and they didn't deathblow, but on several times I went there with friends and helping other people, they decided to incap/insta-slay me and without one specific class, its another long trip back, even more so while we are still lacking fast transportation.
I would also have liked to see some "alternate" paths put into the warren for the not-so-combat-worthy and those that prefer stealth, like air ducts and small passageways to crawl through (Metal Gear Solid comes to mind). Unfortunately since 70% or more of the mobs inside the warren are humanoid, there couldn't be any real sneaking around (mask scent doesn't work on them)and it was pure bashing your way through the enemies was the only way to "advance."
Overall, it was fun, but things need to be tweaked still. I'd like to see a much larger, and more straightforward "dungeon" area next, and a few more that are compounds that can handle the combat types as well as the stealthy types.
Yea also One thing I didnt liek was that a Turret slaining me. I was like, "umm ok A Turret slayed me?"
Ok after playing the warren a little more. besides the bugs it was pretty good. I would like to another dungeon like that, but more linar just for a change. The up/down left/right gets old to players that have played RPGs for a while.
I'll start with the broad strokes...
Firstly, getting badges for completing it is a good thing, as they are a lasting proof of accomplishment and can be seen by others which furthers that feeling.
The overall feel and content of the Warren was pretty decent, it had a story in and of itself that made you achieve tasks to unlock, that was good.
One problem is it's kind of confusing, since SWG isn't really a "searching/puzzle" game it takes a while to get used to it. By that specifically I mean with the keys to the elevators being in those containers and the letters and discs being on the skeletons. Don't get me wrong that is cool and I liked it but since it's not typical SWG up to this point you don't think to look for that type of thing. I mean normally you find nothing, or at least nothing useful in containers or anything so you don't bother to look, so I didn't even think/consider looking int he containers for the keys b/c it wasn't something I was used to doing.
Also the difficulty is a problem, unless you have some really good pets/at st you cannot solo the Warren, which is fine, except that there's no "group completion" format, everyone has to do all the stuff to finish, which creates lots of downtime for the peopel involved, especially when I went as that patch for the letter spawn hadn't came down yet. If you're gonna make it so hard as it pretty much requires a group, anyone in the group upon entering the facility should all complette the mission with one set of "goals accomplished." Anyone joining group after entering has to do it seperately, that'd eliminate the obvious exploiting of it.
All in all I think the Warren is a decent dungeon, had a lot of problems when I actually did it early on, but according to patch notes most have been worked out it seems. There's room for improvement, but all in all wasn't too bad.
In my opinion, the Warren was a blast. A couple days of solid game play (solo), great little puzzles, nice difficulty. I think the badge reward were perfect and I look forward to the next multi faction dungeon you guys let loose.
Cii
I like the warren - I thought it was the first real mission that was more than the routine deliver/destroy.
I realize it probably took the devs a long time to create just this one feature, but it definately was worth it since I nowcan't wait for the next onelike it (read applause here for the devs who created and delivered the warren).
Personally, I think it would be great if there would be multiple paths to complete a dungeon/quest:
1)Slash your way through "near impossible" amounts of MOBs - this should be geared to the people who are looking for a difficult creature challenge even with 5-6 master CHs and BHs and a few medicsin a group, but a brutally direct way to the goal
2) A puzzle/challenge route that could be achieved by a soloing artisan/entertainer with some(but not elite) combat skills
3) A mixing of 1) and 2) where you could do a difficult puzzle/challenge section to bypass the huge group of MOBs, or decide you are strong enough to kill the enemy and not do the puzzle - give me a choice how I want to complete the mission
This would actually be a double mission to me - I would probably try to solo it along the puzzle path and also go backwith the guild group to slash our way through it.
I realize someone could just read a guide for the puzzlepath (which will be posted only a few days after it's released), but this wouldn't matter for the people who want to play and figure the puzzle out for themselves.
As well, maybe the badge/reward could be slightlydifferent depending on which path you took the majority of the time to complete the mission.
Just my 2 credits worth...
Just did the warren last night with a group of buddies. One guy had the "walkthough" so after an hour of running here/there/up/down/left/right press this button, loot that corpse, download this data, I was bored to tears. Total run took around 2-3 hrs. Now mind you, I've read the great reviews in earlier posts and I have no 'complaints' abt more warrens even though it didn't tickle my fancy. And if my friend didn't have the walkthough, I probably wouldn't even do it as this sort of puzzles doesn't interest me.
That said, lets me picture what I think might be a good variant of the "Warren" that would interest me. I like to fight hard and impossible mobs. But we all know that no matter how hard the mob gets, it will get killed easy once people figured out their static loc i.e. like krayt dragons.
So I would proposed a 'dungeon' filled with Kimogila-Krayt difficulty mobs. Mobs would 'patrol' certain corridors. There should be parts of the 'warren' that has a big area for big fights. The current one has a few big areas but something3-5 timesthe size would be nice. This should be "run a gauntlet" style 'dungeon'. But make it so that the 'safe spots' only last a few minutes. Groups will be 'ushered' further and further in at a reasonably fast pace withbits of downtime for resting. Any mistakes you will get DB-ed and have to start again. Now the 'dungeon' should be big enough to accomodate at least 6-7 size 20 groups at different stages. I would also propose 3 saparate 'routes' that are exactly the same or similar to avoid people fighting over the same mobs. Think of it as a golf course. You get a 'higher' lvl badge as you go in deeper or have manage to reach a certain 'tier' or location. Think of diablo-hardcore style with 100 levels of dungeon. Then the badges will truly means something. Right now, everyone and their dog has Act 1 badge and Warren badge and etc. Its almost meaningless.
As for rewards, I would give a nice ONE-TIME DROP PER PERSON (to prevent farming) of a nice set of loot perhaps something like krayt tissues i.e. say you have got 10 lvls, each lvl will provide you with perhaps a subcomponent of different strength i.e. 9 armor segments, 1 weapon segment, clothingtissues,etc. Give this to the armor smith/weaponsmith/etc and he will make you an armor with stats relevant to a 'hero' who has braved this 'warren'.
Now I would expect this dungeon to be difficult and not solo-able unless you have a well rounded group i.e. 2-3 CH, 3-4 damage dealers (commando/BH/elite professions), at least a doctor, CM, etc. Now throw in the requirements for some specific class (perhaps a BE/smuggler/weaponsmith ... much like the base take-over or perhaps a 'class' of professions. The requirements could be slightly looser i.e. required either a master artisan or at least a novice in one of the crafting professions. Now make it so that 2 artisan will half the time and so on. This will make more people be welcome into the groups instead of 'nah, we got an artisan already' attitude.
Now moving on, what I would like to see is much more of these dungeons with different 'requirements'. One dungeon might require a Doc to complete another might need a armorsmith specifically to complete.
I can't remember which movie it was from but I remember there was one scene where Han Solo sneaked into the DeathStar and went deeper and deeper into it. So it does not have to be a 'dungeon' per se.
Another thing I would like to see is the GW be woven in. Perhaps have imperials start from one end and Rebels another end with conflicting mission objectives much like the original vision for the battlefield. Even if you are neutral, you have to be at least temporary be aligned to one side for the duration of the 'mission'.
I would also like to see missions of varying length i.e. some a 1 hr missions, some a elaborate 5-6 hrs missions for weekends or schedule guild activities.