Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Declaring overt
1ImperialScum wrote:
And your point?
Ambush is a oft used tactic in wars. The enemy sneaks into a city under cover of night, sets up a defensive bunker then when dawn comes lays waste. Ambush also happens very frequently in the wilds. Guerilla Warfare is the most successful tactic of any out manned and out gunned army, get under camofalge on an enemy supply route and attack their supply trucks from cover. Look at the reports of the Vietnam Conflict... The enemy hid in the forrests waiting for soldiers to come by, once they saw someone they would open fire from camoflaged locations.
Now truthfully, any actively declared faction member should be able to /declare . Give it an animation, and a timer so it couldn't be spammed. Like a 5 second timer, nothing too bad, but let ANY declared player declare another. You could add a rank based bonus to this that any covert player within x distance would be declared, as rank goes up the radius goes up. It would also give a confirm box to the player, in case you have a covert running through the area that doesn't want to be declared. You could also make it cost 5 FP to declare another person.
Just some ideas.
First, this is a game. Not real life. As much as you would like to, you simply cannot make a comparison to real life. To bring a real life situation into the debate is rather foolish, in my opinion. Real life has NOTHING to do with game balance and game design. In Veitnam, did the guys just go clone and get back up to continue the fight? No. In Veitnam, did the guys have to shoot their opponents multiple times to kill them? No. Stop trying to bring real-life situations into a debate about game design and balance. They have NOTHING to do with each other by any stretch of the imagination.
From a game balance perspective, there is simply NO reason to allow a "traveling recruiter". Player city that is fairly remote? No problem! We'll just bring along our traveling recruiter! Remote player factional base? No problem! We'll just bring along our traveling recruiter! Want to replace one form of retardedness with another one when it comes to attacking Rebel/Imperial cities? No revenge TEF? No problem! We'll just hide out our traveling recruiter nearby!
No, this simply is a horrible idea when considering game balance.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the current system as it is,....except the revenge TEF. If the revenge TEF is eliminated, the PvP aspect will probably be alot more enjoyable.
I agree with the declare command within 50m or so of the recruiter. Stops recruiter camping.
Get rid of revenge TEF. I think a lot of people agree on this one.
Do not add a TEF indicator. Whats the point, if you so worried about getting a TEF, then don't do the things that will get you a TEF. And I'll say one thing, GO OVERT. That will get rid of all your worries about having a TEF. I have yet to be attacked by having a TEF status on me, why because when I think I will get a TEF doing something, I just declare. Like healing in the med center. So people complaining about having a TEF are the ones that don't like to declare.
Do not add the ability of PC recruiter options.
PCgameGuru wrote:
My idea also avoids ambushes, because the recruitment officer's owner would have to be overt and would need support to stay alive. It would allow you to park the pet some distance out of the city, declare,and then charge in though.
Which is exactly the problem with the idea.
All you are doing is replacing one retardedness (revenge TEF) with another.
Squidwalker wrote:
I like the idea. It would be closer to being able to declare overt in any town with a recruiter in it. As people have said, if you are covert, and your fellow overt faction memebers get attacked, you cant jump in and attack to help. This would happend, especially for the rebels. Hangning out someplace, not in uniform is exactly what a rebel would do. Yea I can heal them but that means waiting until someone gets damaged to help. I should just be able to type /declareovert and start shooting. Talke about a surprise for the attacking faction to find a cantina suddenly filled with over opposing faction.
What are you talking about?
Yes, you CAN jump in and help. You only need to be grouped with them, and you can attack anyone attacking him.
Having any kind of "traveling recruiter" or "declare anywhere" option is an EXTREMELY bad idea.
ISB_Shiggins wrote:
wtds wrote:
Why should players need to be near a recruiter to go overt. Wouldnt it be more realistic if players could declare overt at will. Leavereturning to covert the way it is. Seems to me that this would add alot more unpredictability to the whole GCW.
Hear me out here THIS IS THE BEST IDEA Ever you could just take out TEF totaly and make it that u have to declare Overt where ever u want and If u wnat to go covert u have to go to a Recruiter and make the time 30 mins not 1 hour
But then i could see covert walking up to people and going overt in front of them So here the Thing when u declare overt u get a TEF for 30 Seconds then u got fully Overt how does that sound
Please post Feed back to what u think about this
Its a horrible idea.
As I've pointed out over 10 times (with no one debating against this), your idea allows any amount of players to bypass any perimeter defenses around player cities and factional bases. "Defense" simply would be a concept that you wouldn't find in the game with your proposal.
It would completely ruin game balance. You simply cannot allow players to "declare anywhere they want".
what about giving us an ability like Rangers have
if we see a fellow faction member getting attacked we can go and, if covert, we can 'asisst' them and automatically become overt so we can help the out. this would only work if they are under attack by the opposing faction.
Larathorn wrote:
After watching a battle in Tyrena where 5 Imps walked in and a horde of Rebel's ran out the back to declare and come back in and overrun the Imps, I think that something needs to be done. The big issue wasn't that the Rebels could declare, it was that the 5 Covert Imperials that were in the cantina couldn't do anything to help their Overt buddies.
My opinion, make it so you can declare Overt anywhere, anytime. To become Covert you have to go back to the recruiter and wait an hour. There is no reason that I should have to be within 50m to put on my uniform or flash my military ID and fight for my ideals.
I agree with this idea, it makes sense. If a further control needs to be added, then why not let high ranking faction members grant overt.
Holocron wrote:
Larathorn wrote:My opinion, make it so you can declare Overt anywhere, anytime. To become Covert you have to go back to the recruiter and wait an hour. There is no reason that I should have to be within 50m to put on my uniform or flash my military ID and fight for my ideals.
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
People do that already but use the TEF. They all group up in one large group and then have one person go overt and shuttle in to town. When he gets sacked the rest of the group ambushes the other people.
I first responded on page 3 and have heard some good ideas being brought to the table. Great discussion so far.
I do want to point out folks that we need to keep amount of time DOWN that it takes to go overt. Again, nobody wants 2 mins fights and 30 minute downtime..this is NOT DAOC. If you need a break from PVP after a fight, don't declare overt. How about being able to declare overt outside the city limits , maybe 500-1000 meters?? Just a suggestion. The part about TEF that was bad was the revenge TEF, only that person could start the fight, if you are overt, then you take the chance of getting killed. If a person gets creamed and wants to declare right away who cares? The only people effected are other OVERT players.
For those of you that want PVE , don't declare a faction and for God's sake , don't go OVERT. That is the ONLY way for you to get "killed". (rant off)
thanks
Reddog-Corbantis, and Naritus
[QUOTE]
Larathorn wrote:
My opinion, make it so you can declare Overt anywhere, anytime. To become Covert you have to go back to the recruiter and wait an hour. There is no reason that I should have to be within 50m to put on my uniform or flash my military ID and fight for my ideals.
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
-Raph Koster,[/QUOTE]
Still I think this would be great idea. There is no ambushing in this game, no surprise hits. All you need to do is look at your radar and you will see if there are opposing members there. Going overt with a command would make a lot more interesting battles, as more people would join up and defend the area or join up with the attacking forces.
You could put a timer on it so that when you give the command to go overt, it will happen 1 minute after that. With a clear message to yourself that you are no overt.
Holocron wrote:
Larathorn wrote:
My opinion, make it so you can declare Overt anywhere, anytime. To become Covert you have to go back to the recruiter and wait an hour. There is no reason that I should have to be within 50m to put on my uniform or flash my military ID and fight for my ideals.
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
How about having it so you can declare overt, anytime anywhere, but for a minute or two other overts can attack you but you cannot attack them...this would solve the problem of massive ambushes.
Interesting... I also liked the idea of having an Overt, High Ranking PC be able to make players Overt. To keep an all out ambush from happening you could:
1. Put a 10-15 sec timer on the ability for the Overt converter PC to use the skill (or make it some kind of item that has charges with a timer to limit how many coverts could be converted and how quickly. Ex. an Overt conversion disk -that costs faction points-that has 10 charges with a 15 sec timer so you could only convert 4 people a minute...actually a littlelonger with all the confimation clicking and stuff)
2. Make it so the Overt converter and the covert members have to be grouped together
3. Once the converter converts the first person they are seen as a different color on the radar/map so everyone can see who the converter is (both factions) so then there is another target to possibly attack and defend