Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-14: Combat Roles; Squad Leader
In a galaxy far, far away, it is a time of civil war. The Empire has taken control over the galaxy and attempted to build the ultimate battle station to enforce the will of the Emperor. The rebellion destroyed the fearsome Death Star and this galactic conflict is at its peak.
In Massively Multiplayer combat, each profession should have a distinct role. Each role should help define the profession and have a relationship with its abilities in combat. In popular fantasy games, wizards cast ranged spells, warriors are “tanks”, and clerics “heal”. Each archetype has a specific role in combat and they all depend on each other for success. Additionally, each role gives any particular player group a unique feel depending on how many of each type is involved in a group and the role they play when combat gets tough.
In a science-fiction oriented game, those traditional roles aren’t so clear cut. Most skills and abilities are redundant because of balance issues, which take away from the unique feel of the profession. Many players have stated that they would like to see SWG professions have a more unique feel to them and we would like to know what your thoughts are.
Some basic balance considerations are:
* Ranged and Melee Professions
In SWG, a key thing to consider about each profession and its role in combat is that there are many ranged combat classes and many melee combat classes. Each ranged combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “ranged” abilities that helps distinguish them from other ranged combat professions, and likewise, each melee combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “tanking” or melee abilities that helps distinguish them from other melee professions.
* Redundant vs. Unique Abilities
There are two basic set of combat skills any profession should have. The first are Redundant Abilities. These are abilities that either most or all combat professions posses, in other words, “everyman combat skills”. The second set of combat skills a profession should posses are Unique Abilities. Unique abilities are the abilities that give a profession its unique feel in combat. In other words, it defines the profession and its role in combat.
* Game Space
Another basic concept to keep in mind when thinking about combat professions and their role in combat is Game Space. The next big consideration for assessing combat abilities is where the combat takes place. There are indoor spaces and outdoors spaces. Indoor spaces would be dungeons, bases and the like and outdoor spaces would be wilderness and/or city spaces.
* PvP and PvE
In SWG, players can choose between PvE and PvP playstyles and even shift back and forth to play in elements of both. PvE is “Player versus Environment” and basically deals with fighting computer controlled enemies in combat. PvP is “Player versus Player” and is real players fighting real players and tends to be very tricky because anytime something in game is at stake (like faction equipment, etc), it is important to keep things fair and balanced, but also fun.
* Profession Lifespan
What is the profession’s role in its novice state and how should the skill progress over the course of a player’s time investment in the profession? At all times any given profession should have a distinct role and value in combat. As a player progresses from Novice to Master, the profession should reflect something special about the profession and also be fun to play.
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
What offensive abilities?
What defensive abilities?
What unique abilities?
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
How could/should they interact with other professions?
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Request For Comments:
The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.
What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat? Uhm...Be able to lead/manage the 'flow' of combat.
What basic combat elements should they possess? - Buff squad members and be able to manage the group in combat.
What offensive abilities? - to buff the group attack proformance - to focus buff on one player and/or player class
What defensive abilities? Ref above
What unique abilities? - Manage group targeting, collect/sort mission waypoints and assign order, pass waypoint info group members. Prep and post combat buffs/enhancements
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat? - focus the group during combat
How could/should they interact with other professions? - should be able to interact with medics/doc and be able to buff their proformance
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants? - each player should have the option to accpet buffs or orders from the SL.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War? - Be able to control multi faction foot troops - (not droids. AT-ST).
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They should have unique mission terminals like entertainer and artisan terminals. The terminal would check for a group (it would only work if a group of 2 minimum was made, only players counted no pets/droids/faction perks)and if the group is valid it would give a mission. To make it different from the usual destroy missions they would be underground bases much like in beta. The base would be proportionate the the total CL of the group. The higher the CL the bigger the base. I know I read a post awhile back made by J3STER (GCW Correspondent) and he talked about those bases in his post. Search for it, it would make you dream about what SWG was suppose to be...
Anyways back to the idea, the objective of the mission could vary from rescue mission where the rescued hostage could have a chance of being killed to a simple destroy generator mission or maybe even a retrieve important documents and give to the nearest Rebel/Imperial operative. The possibilities are endless... It would bring alot of importance to SLs.
The Squad Leader's role in combat is not a participatory role, but a Support role. We don't deal damage, we coordinate the attack and manage our resources in battle. Battle resources would be our men of course.
- What basic combat elements should they possess?
Like we have now, passive attack and defense bonuses. Any combat skills we have should come from other professions. The only combat element bestowed by a squad leader should be status effects like Area Intimidate or a warcry-type skill.
- What offensive abilities?
Any offensive abilities we get should not allow us to actually inflict any substantial damage or achieve any kills. Any offensive abilities we possess should be related to aiding our men to best maximize their damage (area status effects/knockdowns)
- What defensive abilities?
The passive defense mods we have are a good start. Even better would be a complimentary command similar to /rally, to temporarily bolster our men's defensive status. Also, basic defensive fortifications would aid greatly. Simply be able to order our men to construct a sandbag wall or a defensive trench to battle from would make the GCW much more interesting, and a requirement on things like Krayt Hunts.
- What unique abilities?
This is really an open area with alot of discussion. There's ideas for Squad Leader controlled "Shuttle Drop Zones" for quick transport of men into and out of battle. Another one is the Fortified bunker idea mentioned above.
The most appropriate abilities should be abilities that allow us to control and coordinate our assaults. Waypoint control across the group, better visuals of the battlefield with longer range, tools to define attack strategies and squads within a squad, abilities to coordinate multiple squads all led by experiences Squad Leaders. One option for this is to allow a Squad Leader to deploy or construct (perhaps another class would actually craft it) an "Operations Bunker" where we would have access to long-range reconaissance, temporary cloning facilities, battlefield maps and specialized communication equipment.
- Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Should add significant bonuses to offense & defense, to the entire group (either constantly through passive bonuses or temporarily through /rally type commands). Should have the ability to coordinate basic attack plans & synchronize attacks across large numbers of players (improved/extended /volleyfire).
- How could/should they interact with other professions?
We should be able to integrate any player into a successful combat squad. Even crafters and medics should have a reason to look for a Squad Leader, either for special abilities or schematics that we "unlock" for them, or bonuses to skills.
- What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
We are *totally* dependant on other combatants. A pure Squad Leader would be virtually incapable of dealing any significant damage to a worthy target. We rely totally on other players to follow our orders and commands.
- What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
The Final Terminal slicing is a nice start. Squad Leaders should be a mandatory part of most GCW battles, lending such incredible power to an experienced group that no one would dare mess with a group led by a well known Squad Leader. Drop Zones & Defensive Bunkers are another great way to do this. Potentially allowing squad leaders to construct a "Base of operations" where they have access to special reconnaisance and control equipment (long range radar, scout reconnaisance, etc) would make base takeovers and seige's much more interesting than a "zerg-fest".
What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess? - the ones they have now are good. i think a /protect <target> would be a good idea, the group could take the shots directed at a player ie; a combat medic or a hostage or group of hostages
What offensive abilities? - /coverfire, making a few group members unable to hit for a short period of time. A /highlight enemy skill, a SL could somehow survey the enemies and mark them as priority to defeat. this would have to allow the SL to see past a Master Commando who has a novice marksman title. a /pursue ability, uhm to chase down a retreating enemy.
What defensive abilities? sometype of +dodge+ upgrade for when a retreat is signaled.
What unique abilities? - a medicinal healing bonus to any medics, combat medics, or doctors in the group. uhm this inst an abililty but a piece of clothing or something to show who the SL is. "without the head the body will fall" is an SL is lost the group is severly weaken. it adds a challenge for the SL team and would hopefully make the SL's group more "loyal" to the SL or more protective.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat? defense and offense bonus, shot bonuses, aim bonuses, basically what they have now.
How could/should they interact with other professions? - a Squad Leader, leads troops into battle they should be combat affective, the thought of a SL not being a combatant is proof that the guy above who posted is a sissy. a non-combative SL...lo. Take Julius Caesar, he lead his men into battle and he and his group won. not likea certain president who sits in his "homeland" and does nothing. but back to profession and interacting - there should be something that an SL and his/her group can "bring to the table" what that something is i dunno. maybe faction perks like increased fp bonuses. a SL should be a valuable part to either side of the faction war.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants? - well without a group of combatants a SL is essentially as good as his combative abilities. so a SL is dependant on his or her troops.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War? - i feel that their should missions only an Sl and his or her group can take. these cannot be taken unless you are a SL with a group. i like badges so a badge for doing a certain number of SL missions for example; for the SL ...lead a group out of echo base with great Courage. ( that would be a rebel badge ) for the group member ...fought alongside (SL's name here) and escaped from the cluthes of invading imperial force on Hoth) and reverse badges for imperial side ...defeated (player or non-player squad) inthe invasion of hoth. i dunno just some thoughts and yes i know Hoth is not in game but i hope it will be eventually in the future, i wanna participate in the battle of Hoth!
anyways my few pence of sugesstion.
What unique abilities?
the ability to use cam droids! cam droids would go in and"take a picture" of thelayout of an area and the SL would put the holographic data disk into a projector and it would make a 3D holographic projection of theare and then the SL could make little markers to represent people and move them around in the projection to show his group how to attack.
how hard would that be to code? really, really, really, realy, really hard or impossible?
1. What defines an SL's role in combat:
The hardened leader of a squad. A veteran and experienced soldier who knows and utilizes all the angles and knows all the routines and tricks. They should be able to give good benefits to the group, and at higher levels and master be able to provide extreme/excellent benefits and portray a sense of fearsome command.....able to lead groups through the toughest forays and still coem out alive.
2. Basic Combat elements:
Ability to support troops, provide buffs, provide unique defensive and offensive capabilities. They should be able to harden a force to breat benefit.
3. What offensive capabilities:
Able to increase hits, increase damage, make target priorities, focus attacks on certain areas of targets, form offensive formations/stances, increase offensive output (such as speed and damage), faster movement, utilize offensive structures (portable guns, small turrets, crewed weapons, air cover, reinforcements by shuttle on-location)
4. What defensive capabilities:
Increases ot all forms of defense. Defensive formations. Air-lift evacuation. Increase to medical healing/effectiveness. Increase to defense MOD's. Faster group movement. provide defensive barricades/works. "Last Stand, we're gonna die but we're gonna take youw ith us" type stuff.
5. What unique abilities:
SL should be comprised of COMPLETELY UNIQUE abilities. There is NOTHING that Squad leader should have that ANYONE else gets. The profession is completely unique itself, and as such it should not share anyhting. Should be able to set up fortifications (make use of our survival req's), create formations, give group buffs an dbenefits, paint targets for priority, allow target optimization...pretyt much everyhting i have stated before. RADAR JAMMING EQUIPMENT, block enemy radar from detecting the group.
6. Add what advantage or asset to group combat
Self-explanatory. The other areas pretty much cover it. We should ahve a good, but focused, range of abilities that cover all aspects of adding defense and offense to groups, with a few extras liek fortifications, formations, air-lifts, and reinforcement calls.
7. how could/should they react wth other proffessions
Be able to designate a point-man, giving the SL a second radar attached to this point man so he can "see ahead". Form up offensive or defensive formations based upon borad class types (such as melee to the front, ranged to the rear for a defensive stance)
8. GCW role
Should be needed to launch the over ride code fo rbase attacks (as they currently are). Should be able to call in NPC reinforcements by shuttle. Should have unique SL only "orders" buyable from faction recruiters, such as artillery bombardments, troop-types, etc. They should be able to grant more FP on faction missions.
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theSquad Leaderrole in combat?
The name pretty much sums it up. He is the Squad leader. He leads his troops to victory. His field of expertise is not dealing damage, but coordinating troops, raising morale and forming Strategies.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
They should be able to remove psychological status effects (intimidate, stun, Dizzy), as well as provide passive defense Modifiers.
What offensive abilities?
Offensive abilities should be limited to delay actions and/r Posture changes. Overall, a Squad Leader should have few offensive abilities. Hisjob, his purpose, is not to throw himself into battle, but to observe the field and ccordinate the troops.
What defensive abilities?
Passive defense Modifiers in the 50 range, Improved terrain negotatiation. Improved movement speed for his troops. All in all, his defensive abilities should buy him and his troops the time nescessary to evaluate the field of battle and efficiently utilize Strategies. Due to the real-time aspect of combat in SWG only few of the Squad leader abilities can be implemented, as by it's nature a squad leader is a job, based on knowledge and personality. Thus the ony thing available for the game mechanics to make the job easier is to allow SLs to improve the survivability of their troops.
What unique abilities?
A unique overhead radar, to keep track of movements more easily. The ability to redeed turrets to easen up the establishment of defensive perimeters. The set-up of Fox holes and trechnches for a cetain period of time.
This would bring a new level of strategy to the GCW, while improving the overall "feel" of batle, ultimately making it more "movie like".
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Given their unique abilities, they should be able to set up an extraction area as well as keep track of nemy movements. They need the ability to interact efficiently with rangers, to be able to have information relayedd from forward observers (read: rangers). They would improve the survivability of the group, as well as providing them with cover and fortified position given enough time for preparations.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Their main interaction outside of combat should be with rangers. Rangers should get an ability to relay enemy positions to the "special radar" of the squad leader. giving the SL the ability to track even moevements outside of his direct FoV.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Given their lack of offensive abilities their dependancy on other combatatnt should be in the actual application of firepower. On his own, a squad leader is useless, but with his pool of information as well as his ability to efficiently fortify positions, a SL would provide the nescessary defense for combatants to fully unleash their offensive capablities.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Coordination of troops and shape of the battlefield, plain and simple. Wit new abilities as i proposed, they would be able to directly change the look and feel of the GCW, taking them from a ragtag conglomerate of skirmishes to a real war!
What defines the Squad Leader role in combat?
A SL should lead [from the back]. A SL should be able to see the whole battle and then be in a position to issue commands to either the whole group or individuals in a group.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Mostly passive, like enancing the teams movement, enhancing the teams accuracy etc.
What offensive abilities?
Accuracy that was achieved by the above command.
What defensive abilities?
Being able to move the group out of trouble as a final act.
What unique abilities?
Being able to call on reinforcements. The only way I can think of implementing this is by calling Faction Pets, which will probably be frowned upon.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
This again is covered ny the passive command abilities, by affecting the whole group with more togetherness.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Being allowed to use the members in their own chosen professions. i,e. Targetting Scouts and Medics for specific duties. On the issue of a command, Scouts could lead, Medics could heal, Ranged and Melee could attack...
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Leadership. Showing the group who is in charge by achieveing success.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
High Ranks, such as Major and above should be allowed to deploy a collection of players to a SL that is assigned to them during their role of duty.
FarstarThe Squad Leader could really make the war, warlike. At master, the SL could command a unit of up to 24 others. This could be a mixed unit (Rifles, carbines, pistols, brawlers, medics etc.) or a unit of all the same profession (pistoleers say)
He would have formations to choose from to place them in locations within the formation that made sense, brawlers forward, medics back, etc. He could move the formation as a whole by giving orders (modified follow for members of formation) or allow open field movement within the formation. There would be a menu of formations to choose from and a variety of modifications such as close or open. He would have a free form formation that would let him place individuals in certain spots.
He could allow different types of fire such as hold fire, volley fire (fire at the target in front of you automatically) , target a certain unit or free fire.
The group would be individuals but under the leadership of the SL. These formations could then work together to form a battle plan and you have a war on your hands.
By giving the SL control over others it would make him important and a disciplined group can almost always defeat a mob if the leader is effective. Groups of SL on both sides fighting each other could be awesome.